Moving to Photography full-time.

StompToWork

So, I'm sick of driving a desk all the time, so I left the job, and am setting up a photography business (insert all the "Don't do it", "you'll starve", "you'll end up hating photography" comments here!!!)

I'm starting a SYOB course next week, but there is one thing I wanted to ask here for opinion. I was doing a family photo shoot last weekend, and all of a sudden I found myself shooting two sisters (9 and 6) while mom went off to change her outfit.

It's a sad state of affairs that due to the time we live in, and the sometimes "oil and water" relationship between parents and cameras pointing at their kids, it popped into my mind that this could be a big factor in some parents not seeking professional portraits of their children. Maybe I'm overreacting, but it was a thought.

So, I was wondering if it is possible to request a Garda check and reference it in the marketing of your business? Do other photographers here think this is a proactive marketing idea, or simply inviting negative thoughts from potential customers?

I do family portraits and I've never been asked, nor mentioned Garda vetting. You'd immediately have raised eyebrows.


Besides, you can only be vetted for different things. You can't be globally vetted.


For example, if I did a bit of work with a school before, and i was a member of, for argument sake, st. john ambulance, if St. John garda vetted me, it would only apply to st. john. If the school wanted a Garda vetted photographer, you'd have to go through the process again with the school itself. So you'd have been vetted twice, but it still wouldn't benefit you if another different company came along, as they'd have to put you through the process again themselves.

It's a silly, awkward system, but it works like that apparently. I lost out on a job before because it'd take too long to get me vetted with a big company (even though i've gone through the process already). Pain in the hole.


But anyway, yeah, don't mention it or bring it up unnecessarily. You don't want to be bringing it to people's attention one way or the other.

CabanSail

It reminds me of a line from the show "The Vicar of Dibley" where one of characters said "I am not mad and I have certificates to prove it"

StompToWork

Deleted User wrote: »

But anyway, yeah, don't mention it or bring it up unnecessarily. You don't want to be bringing it to people's attention one way or the other.

That's what I was thinking. Just always good to have someone else say it. Thanks.

pete4130

Deleted User wrote: »

But anyway, yeah, don't mention it or bring it up unnecessarily. You don't want to be bringing it to people's attention one way or the other.

WTF? You do realise in healthcare, nursing etc its policy not to have 1 adult left alone with any child at any time. Thats a sector/industry thats more tightly controlled than some person with a camera claiming to be a photographer.

The implications and stress are not worth it. The fact it "popped" into your mind means its important. So to take the above advice of not mentioning it is foolish.
You can be vetted by the Garda. Get yourself vetted, have that peace of mind and don't just be happy to hear it from somebody on the internet. Can your reputation or business cope with any sort of implication with anything untoward?

http://www.childprotection.ie/vetting

StompToWork wrote: »

That's what I was thinking. Just always good to have someone else say it. Thanks.

Thats just a naive attitude to start out with.

magicbastarder

Deleted User wrote: »

But anyway, yeah, don't mention it or bring it up unnecessarily. You don't want to be bringing it to people's attention one way or the other.

what's wrong with getting vetted, and not mentioning it to the client unless asked?
makes you look more professional if anything.

CabanSail

I would also have a clause in the contract that a responsible adult be always present with a minor. That's the place to have it, not in the marketing. Then if asked you can refer to that clause.

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

what's wrong with getting vetted, and not mentioning it to the client unless asked?
makes you look more professional if anything.

pete4130 wrote: »

WTF? You do realise in healthcare, nursing etc its policy not to have 1 adult left alone with any child at any time. Thats a sector/industry thats more tightly controlled than some person with a camera claiming to be a photographer.

It's mad that you both managed to quote me, but not read the first sentence in the actual text you quoted, but still rambled on ranting away anyway.


If you want to call into people's houses and introduce yourself with "Hi, I'm not a paedophile" then by all means go for it.


I'm pretty sure the Gardai won't vet you anyway. I'd be curious to hear how you get on. I never really looked into it, but I'm confident enough that they'd suggest you're not eligible to vet yourself.

magicbastarder

Deleted User wrote: »

still rambled on ranting away

whut?

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote:

what's wrong with getting vetted, and not mentioning it to the client unless asked?

Deleted User wrote: »

If you want to call into people's houses and introduce yourself with "Hi, I'm not a paedophile" then by all means go for it.

i'm enjoying the irony of being accused of not having read the post i was responding to.

pete4130

So by not mentioning it, or not being asked about it means its OK not to have it, is that what you are saying? Thats stupid and makes no sense.

And as for working in a school with children, here is quote form the Teaching Council of Ireland for you to consider. The legalities of you working with children in the school are questionable if you weren't vetted. The school foolishly probably assumed you had been vetted

"The Teaching Council is the authorised body for administering vetting for teachers in Ireland. If you are working in, or associated with, a school and you are not a teacher you should contact your Principal who will liaise with the relevant authority on your behalf, e.g., diocesan office, management body, etc."

http://www.teachingcouncil.ie/garda-vetting/overview.771.html

If you are working as a so called professional and know you are going to be working with children, it is in your interest to get vetted and be cleared to work with children/vulnerable people.

If somebody didn't have a Garda vetting, alarm bells would be ringing that they don't want to get one, or can't get one.

If you actually bothered going to the link I posted you'd see that the Garda do the vetting. See the screenshot with the relevant points outlined in a red box for you to look at.

StompToWork

Is anyone who has commented above is a professional photographer? I suppose the reason I posted the question here was to get opinions from people who make a living out of photography, rather than just throwing a potentially divisive subject out there for people to argue over.

flyingsnail

I may be a few more steps along than you in the planning stage but I did look at the garda vetting system some time ago for reasons unconnected to photography. My best advice would be to contact the vetting office and talk to them but from what I can remember you won't be able to vet yourself.

AFAIK only registered organisation can request garda vetting and to become one of those you would need to show the level of unsupervised access to children / vulnerable people. Also garda vetting does not approve or disprove of people for jobs, all it is a report and the organisation has to make the decision as to hire the person or not, hence why you need to be vetted for each position as each organisation would have different levels of what is acceptable and what it not. Obviously you should know what that report will say about you already.

Myksyk

I think CabanSail is right. Your actual practice is much more important than any document saying you haven't been convicted of any crimes. Don't be with kids on your own without their parent/guardian present and the vetting becomes irrelevant.

pullandbang

flyingsnail wrote: »

My best advice would be to contact the vetting office and talk to them but from what I can remember you won't be able to vet yourself.

That's it in a nutshell. You cannot get yourself vetted by the Garda Vetting Bureau. It's up to the organisation hiring you to apply to them to have you vetted. This I know from experience as I tried it last week. Best thing is not to bring it up unless the school/company/institution hiring you does.

mdebets

pullandbang wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell. You cannot get yourself vetted by the Garda Vetting Bureau. It's up to the organisation hiring you to apply to them to have you vetted. This I know from experience as I tried it last week. Best thing is not to bring it up unless the school/company/institution hiring you does.

Do I get this right, if a photographer shoots class photos in ten different schools and each school requires a Garda Vetting, the photographer needs to get vetted 10 times?

Myksyk

No. In practice it would mean that the photographer is not on his own with kids and has a vetted staff member facilitating and supervising.

pete4130

pete4130 wrote: »

So by not mentioning it, or not being asked about it means its OK not to have it, is that what you are saying? Thats stupid and makes no sense.

And as for working in a school with children, here is quote form the Teaching Council of Ireland for you to consider. The legalities of you working with children in the school are questionable if you weren't vetted. The school foolishly probably assumed you had been vetted

"The Teaching Council is the authorised body for administering vetting for teachers in Ireland. If you are working in, or associated with, a school and you are not a teacher you should contact your Principal who will liaise with the relevant authority on your behalf, e.g., diocesan office, management body, etc."

http://www.teachingcouncil.ie/garda-vetting/overview.771.html

If you are working as a so called professional and know you are going to be working with children, it is in your interest to get vetted and be cleared to work with children/vulnerable people.

If somebody didn't have a Garda vetting, alarm bells would be ringing that they don't want to get one, or can't get one.

If you actually bothered going to the link I posted you'd see that the Garda do the vetting. See the screenshot with the relevant points outlined in a red box for you to look at.

Again, I have been vetted, several times, but none of it applies to my work in a family home (as per the OP's description). You're not reading a word I wrote.

I would never, ever promote a shortcoming. Why would you ever unnecessarily mention a downfall?


"I see you're looking to buy my Toyota Corolla. It's costing me a fortune in repairs and maintenance". :rolleyes:


@Magic, wasn't really aiming the ranting at you, you posted more constructively, in fairness. I take that back.

CabanSail

Deleted User wrote: »

I would never, ever promote a shortcoming. Why would you ever unnecessarily mention a downfall?


"I see you're looking to buy my Toyota Corolla. It's costing me a fortune in repairs and maintenance". :rolleyes:

That is my feeling on it too. Take precautions and be ready for any questions but don't raise the issue.

On a side note I see one of the car company are doing just that. I have heard ads since I arrived here.

Hyundai, Believe Everything You Hear

We have quite a few Hyundai Cars at work. I do not hear very many positive comments about them. How much Bolivian Marching Powder did that Marketing Team take to come up with that campaign?

pullandbang

mdebets wrote: »

Do I get this right, if a photographer shoots class photos in ten different schools and each school requires a Garda Vetting, the photographer needs to get vetted 10 times?

Technically yes - BUT only if each of the schools decide they want to have you vetted. In reality though they won't bother because one or more of the school teachers will be present and you'll be classified as "occasional".