Seat base turntables

digger58

Anybody fitted turntables to their MH seats?, Which ones did you use etc? Mine is 01 Ducato BTW, cost? Just interested in doing it.

moodrater

Fitted Fasp to ours its very straightforward to fit. they are far stronger than the central bolt types I wouldn't trust those at all in a crash. If I was doing it again I think I'd fit swivel seats from a galaxy or voyager instead. The stock isri seats aren't very comfortable.

jimbobwalton

Do these seats fit the ducato exactly or are do you need extra fitting etc?

digger58

Not great at scrabble... what is Fasp? I picked these up today from a PUG/C8, will have a go tomorrow to see how much work there is.

*Kol*

digger58 wrote: »

Not great at scrabble... what is Fasp? I picked these up today from a PUG/C8, will have a go tomorrow to see how much work there is.

FASP is an Italian company who make seat swivels.

digger58

Ok, Never heard of them, didn't see them when I googled either. I'll post after I see how it goes.

moodrater

digger58 wrote: »

Ok, Never heard of them, didn't see them when I googled either. I'll post after I see how it goes.

Those C8 swivels look like a balls to work with I would get the seats and rails with them if you want to go that route.

Your google must be broken. Manufacturer is in the first couple of hits on google web search and installation in ducato is first hit on google video search.
https://www.google.ie/search?q=fasp+swivel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ace68J3oknM

Aidan_M_M

Genuine question here. If you have an accident in a vehicle with modified seat bases, as you would have to do to fit C8 or similar ones to a Ducato, and you are hurt, could the insurance Mob wash their hands of you? Seeing as said bases aren't designed for those seats.

Strictly speaking you ought to notify the insurance company of modifications and they may amend or reject your policy, or accept it if it is signed off on by someone they deem accountable professional.

If you don't tell them you're probably not covered. Changing your airbox or tyre width invalidates your insurance.

digger58

I didn't know Google could break! Of course you'll find it if you put in the name, I googled swivel seats for campers and it doesn't come up, that's why I said it. I'll let you know later how bad a job it could be, if there's too much messing around I'll go another route. Given that the Pug 807/C8, Ulysse are all from the same stable as the Ducato I surmise there may be some similarity at least. As regards insurance.... I have different curtains from the original, do I have to notify them? People get pedantic about this, anyway if I get hurt why would I sue myself! Your insurance is primarily to indemnify YOU against a third party claim, unless the seat flies out the window and hurts somebody I don't see a problem. Some have them fitted others don't, They all have to meets standards and there are several mounting holes on the turntable so they are probably made to fit several different models. They certainly look and feel a lot stronger than one after market unit I saw. As for changing airbox/tyre and invalidating insurance... BOLLOCKS, They can''t get out of covering you that easily, if that was the case ALL convicted drink drivers would not have insurance when push came to shove.

Changing tyre size is a suspension modification, changing the wheelbase (width) or gear ratio and speedo calibration (diameter). Changing the airbox is a "performance" part.

oinkely

Would anyone have a source for a swivel seat base. I phoned up a heap of scrappers recently and didn't get very far. Any info greatfull received.

cheers

*Kol*

oinkely wrote: »

Would anyone have a source for a swivel seat base. I phoned up a heap of scrappers recently and didn't get very far. Any info greatfull received.

cheers

I am sure I have seen them on either the Charles Camping or Donaheys website for sale.

digger58

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Changing tyre size is a suspension modification, changing the wheelbase (width) or gear ratio and speedo calibration (diameter). Changing the airbox is a "performance" part.

I feel a lot of this talk is "Urban myth", having spent 30 years dealing with the Road Traffic Act on an almost daily basis I never came across ANY Insurance company who refused to honor a policy after an incident, even fatal accidents, Going by your remarks replacing a worn original tyre with a slightly wider, non original one would be enough to invalidate insurance, BOLLOCKS, I'd love to talk to someone who had their policy invalidated for suchlike, I doubt it would be a suspension modification either, lowered springs, altered camber, castor etc yes but a different tyre????????? Wheelbase is the distance between the center of the front and rear axles, track is the width! I had to put slightly narrower tyres on my car last year as I couldn't get tyres to replace the ones on it, the petrol version has slightly narrower as standard, the diesel the wider, same load rating etc, mine is a diesel, you believe I should notify the insurance? I can see a different gear ratio altering the speedo, don't forget an old tyre and a new tyre have a totally different circumference, speedos operate within average tyre wear tolerances. If we go pedantically down this road almost every vehicle that has been serviced outside the main dealer and gone through a few tyres would be modified in some way.

digger58

digger58 wrote: »

I feel a lot of this talk is "Urban myth"

Yeah could be. That's where I heard it.
That and insurance companies requesting I inform them of non stock alterations.

Tbh I'd be ringing my insurance company every other week with updates if I was inclined.

Re: swivel seats, You'll only get to the truth of the matter by ringing your specific insurance company.

digger58

The one question I usually have fun with when talking to Insurance companies is the one... Is your car an import? I usually ask is there a loading if it is? They usually cover themselves by say "It depends", I then say "Yes as ALL cars are imported here as we don't have an indigenous car industry. OK the "Shamrock" and TMC Costin were "made" here, probably mostly from imported parts and the DeLorean, well that would have been imported from that foreign land to the north with it's french engine etc, basically we never had and never will have any vehicle totally Irish made.Even the Fords had a lot of imported parts assembled in Cork. Seems to be a strange question for an insurance company anyway, once it's RHD and originally sold within the EU what difference could it possibly make to them? As regards my Insurance company, I have no intention of telling them I may be able to use the same seat to drive and eat from, and maybe watch TV!

moodrater

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

Genuine question here. If you have an accident in a vehicle with modified seat bases, as you would have to do to fit C8 or similar ones to a Ducato, and you are hurt, could the insurance Mob wash their hands of you? Seeing as said bases aren't designed for those seats.

Mine were signed off by the SQI that signed off the conversion. I reckon the stock ISRI seat adjustment mechanism is by far the weakest link in the chain. I've had two welds break just getting in and out of the van and I've see the anchor come adrift on another.

To digger I wouldn't expect much similarity with the car seats the ducato ones are made by ISRI who only supply the commercial/motorhome sectors:
http://www.isri.de/en/seats/original-equipment.html

Aidan_M_M

Yeah, I see a lot of Isri here , and Maguti.

Nekarsulm

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

Genuine question here. If you have an accident in a vehicle with modified seat bases, as you would have to do to fit C8 or similar ones to a Ducato, and you are hurt, could the insurance Mob wash their hands of you? Seeing as said bases aren't designed for those seats.

The seat, be it swivel or not, has no safety features at all. The seat belt is the most important thing. Unless the seat is so poorly attached that it flies out the windscreen in a collision while unoccupied, or slides off its base under heavy braking.
I don't know of any seats with integral seat belts.

moodrater

Nekarsulm wrote: »

The seat, be it swivel or not, has no safety features at all. The seat belt is the most important thing. Unless the seat is so poorly attached that it flies out the windscreen in a collision while unoccupied, or slides off its base under heavy braking.
I don't know of any seats with integral seat belts.

I can only think of a couple of vehicles that don't have the buckle receiver attached to the seat or seat rail. The Ducato seats have the receiver on the seat rail which is in turn attached to the swivel.

The forces on the seat aren't trivial. The downward force in a 80kmh frontal collision plus the lap belt force plus the force caused by the mass of the seat itself and the leverage/rotational moment cause by the seat back would be many kilonewtons. Not to mention the force on the seat back in a rear collision.

If you can't see the safety issues think about this. In the case of an aftermarket seat swivel the original 4 fixings would be typically replaced by 8 which are usually not supplied. Whats the appropriate grade, whats the appropriate size. Holes are drilled, bits cut off. Is the structure weakened? Are the holes the appropriate diameter, are the fasteners done up to the appropriate torque. If the receiver isn't on the seat is the seat belt routed so that it the webbing can't be snagged or damaged. Add to that a lot of seat receivers now have integrated pretensioners which obviously can't be connected in a swivel situation.

Lots of seats swivel and otherwise have integrated belts, aguti/isri truck and motorhome seats, galaxy/voyager/c8/vito/most MPV and van center seats/captains chair/floor rail mounted seats.

moodrater

moodrater wrote: »

I can only think of a couple of vehicles that don't have the buckle receiver attached to the seat or seat rail.

T-series Merc are through the floor. :P

rustynutz

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Yeah could be. That's where I heard it.
That and insurance companies requesting I inform them of non stock alterations.

Tbh I'd be ringing my insurance company every other week with updates if I was inclined.

Re: swivel seats, You'll only get to the truth of the matter by ringing your specific insurance company.

If you have a collision and your seat failed causing you injury you would not be claiming from your own insurance company, it will be the insurance company of the other vehicle involved, if there isn't another vehicle involved then you can't claim for personnel injury, even with comprehensive insurance. Informing the insurance company imo is opening a can of worms where they will look for engineers reports etc. on the modification which you will probably struggle to get.

Aidan_M_M

Nekarsulm wrote: »

The seat, be it swivel or not, has no safety features at all. The seat belt is the most important thing. Unless the seat is so poorly attached that it flies out the windscreen in a collision while unoccupied, or slides off its base under heavy braking.
I don't know of any seats with integral seat belts.

The gooD folk in Frankia, (amongst others) wouldn't agree with you. Isri, btw.

*Kol*

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

The gooD folk in Frankia, (amongst others) wouldn't agree with you. Isri, btw.

As a matter of interest, where is the inertia reel for the belt located on that seat, within the back assembly or in the base?

Aidan_M_M

*Kol* wrote: »

As a matter of interest, where is the inertia reel for the belt located on that seat, within the back assembly or in the base?

low down, close to the base.

*Kol*

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

low down, close to the base.

Safety wise close to the base would be good. Better than high up near the shoulder.

moodrater

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

T-series Merc are through the floor. :P

Thats one of the ones i was thinking about, ldv / iveco too.

I thought as much. You've mentioned you had one in the family.

digger58

Well got it to fit, if anything it is heavier than the base of the seat where it bolts onto the runners, it is a fairly substantial piece of kit and had the seat belt buckle on the top piece, I left it there. Certainly the four legs of the seat seem to be the weakest part of the whole affair, they are spotted onto the seat base, not very secure at all. The only down side side I see is that it is about 20mm taller than the proper one.

moodrater

If bolt faces aren't parallel you have bending stress and open a whole can of worms from a strength point of view especially if thats a 10.9 bolt. An engineer wouldn't sign that off.

digger58

Parallel to what exactly? The runners are sitting on and bolted to ridges in the "pan" All these are in line and level with each other. I don't see where you are getting ideas about bending, the runners work perfectly, they have to otherwise the seat won't swivel! Has society become paranoid and pedantic about having engineers do everything for us? Thankfully I still believe in actually doing things, getting my hands dirty, if it works, great, if not different approach and try again.