NRs in elite amateur events

denishurley

Looking through the results of the big senior scratch cups and the West and its ilk, you see a lot of NRs.

Without being judgmental - if I ever get that low, maybe I'll feel the same - I'm assuming it's just ego, saving face instead of posting a high-80 or low-90? Pros get a lot of heat for withdrawing from competitions after a shocker on a Thursday, is this a similar comparison?

What are people's thoughts?

mike12

Think lots are lost balls when scores are gone, most guys return score cards but just have a hole they don't finish.

denishurley

That's a good point, I've been guilty of that myself

Senna

Yeah that probably accounts for the majority of them, if the card is wrecked who wants to walk back and rehit after a lost ball etc

Ronney

In stroke play comps handicap is done by stableford. So you could put in a card with a blank resulting in a NR and still get cut if you had a good stableford score.

Not sure is CSS calculated in this way too or not but could mean some of those NR's would be counted in some way

cgh

Some of those N.R's are where the comp is over 36 holes,
some folk have a really bad first round and dont bother with the second.

Norfolk Enchants_

An NR has the same effect on CCS as a player who misses his buffer by 1 shot, i.e. zero effect.

Redzah

A lot of people travel to these events and have a journey home to think about. if you're 5 or 6 over and on your 30th hole of the day, its often more appealing to get on the road an hour or 2 earlier than finish out a meaningless round with guys you don't know while waiting to play on every shot due to the usual slow rounds at these events. Either way, you get the point 1.

Golfgorfield

Redzah wrote: »

A lot of people travel to these events and have a journey home to think about. if you're 5 or 6 over and on your 30th hole of the day, its often more appealing to get on the road an hour or 2 earlier than finish out a meaningless round with guys you don't know while waiting to play on every shot due to the usual slow rounds at these events. Either way, you get the point 1.

So its fine and dandy to head off coz your doing badly and leave your playing partners, who may be doing well in a 2 ball to be held up even further??

Sorry but an NR in any major championship should be met with a, don't come back next year letter.

The losing a ball and not going back excuse is bullcrap also, anyone with half a brain should hit a provo, and worst case there are plenty buggies around to take you back to speed up the process.

Its usually the same culprits who do it on a regular basis, and its high time it was stopped.

Redzah

Golfgorfield wrote: »

So its fine and dandy to head off coz your doing badly and leave your playing partners, who may be doing well in a 2 ball to be held up even further??

Sorry but an NR in any major championship should be met with a, don't come back next year letter.

The losing a ball and not going back excuse is bullcrap also, anyone with half a brain should hit a provo, and worst case there are plenty buggies around to take you back to speed up the process.

Its usually the same culprits who do it on a regular basis, and its high time it was stopped.

Ah I suppose Golf is a selfish and individual sport Gorfield. Also, If I was doing badly I'd be better off not being there bringing them down to my level anyways.
I'm not a regular NR candidate myself but I have certainly done it.

I notice that you're distinguishing a major championship above as opposed to a regular senior scratch cup? why is this?

The other thing I'd note is if half these guys realised they're not playing the masters and have no hope of winning the comp and speed up their play then it'd rule out a lot of the NR's who can't bear to finish out what would be a another miserable 5 and a half hour round.

I understand that it can painful for the 2 ball to then finish an already slow round but is there any other reason that you have an issue with it?

Golfgorfield

Scratch cup, championship, what's the diff, its all low hcap players that should know better.

I suppose i cant understand an NR just can not, it happened my once in the East, where i went home with my card in my pocket. But to not hand in a score just does not make sense for me.

Norfolk Enchants_

I think some people here might be confusing a NR (no return) with a DNF(did not finish), personally I don't see any issue with a NR, but there is no exuse for a DNF and those players who DNF shuld be asked to explain their actions and failing a satisfactory answer (death or serious injury), playing privileges should be revoked.

Redzah

Golfgorfield wrote: »

Scratch cup, championship, what's the diff, its all low hcap players that should know better.

I suppose i cant understand an NR just can not, it happened my once in the East, where i went home with my card in my pocket. But to not hand in a score just does not make sense for me.

Fair enough. I suppose I'm suspect to doing it the odd time when I'm playing ****e, the weathers ****e, im stuck out in a clogged up course with some fella thinking he's the next big thing in front taking ages and I know it'll be another 2 hours before im finished. Out comes the phone to suss out anything else in the world that might occupy me and soon enough there is a match on where if I leave at that moment then i'll get home to see it with a few friends. All leads to a more appealing prospect in my eyes at that movement and I understand if my playing partners don't like it or don't particularly approve but I've done it the odd time and its taken my mind off the ****e golf that proceeded it.

Golfgorfield

Redzah wrote: »

Fair enough. I suppose I'm suspect to doing it the odd time when I'm playing ****e, the weathers ****e, im stuck out in a clogged up course with some fella thinking he's the next big thing in front taking ages and I know it'll be another 2 hours before im finished. Out comes the phone to suss out anything else in the world that might occupy me and soon enough there is a match on where if I leave at that moment then i'll get home to see it with a few friends. All leads to a more appealing prospect in my eyes at that movement and I understand if my playing partners don't like it or don't particularly approve but I've done it the odd time and its taken my mind off the ****e golf that proceeded it.

Unbelievable, why play at all then?

I'm playing crap so im gone, fantastic attitude.

Redzah

Norfolk Enchants_ wrote: »

I think some people here might be confusing a NR (no return) with a DNF(did not finish), personally I don't see any issue with a NR, but there is no exuse for a DNF and those players who DNF shuld be asked to explain their actions and failing a satisfactory answer (death or serious injury), playing privileges should be revoked.

Well, a DNF is a NR but a NR is not necessarily a DNF.

Why do you separate the 2 and have a strong issue on the DNF.

In my eyes the NR where somebody purposefully keeps their card in their pocket despite completing the round is worse as there is a major issue with Handicap's in the championships. Those who deliberately keep them low through numerous methods so they can get in. This leads to many +1 golfers who would be an average junior cup player. These are the lads who keep the cards in their pockets as the scores could be in the high 80's or worse. Personally, I can never understand anybody lower than a 3ish handicap shooting higher than 85 (no matter how bad, it doesn't stack up so it. These guys end up taking the slot of better golfers who can't get in.

If you want to say that I am wrong if I have previously walked off the course on my second round of a given day then fair enough but it is for selfish reasons and better use of my time why I did this and the NR's who finish their round and don't give in the score due to the size of it are more of a plague on the game than my actions are.

Redzah

Golfgorfield wrote: »

Unbelievable, why play at all then?

I'm playing crap so im gone, fantastic attitude.

Not quite that simple. A player of your experience will see the numerous guys who take off after 18 holes of a scratch cup having performed poorly in round 1 for example, I wish to clarify that I have never done this as round 2 is always a fresh start and poor golf may only leave you 6-8 shots behind so its a fun challenge to try and claw your way back into placing in it.

However, when it hits 5pm and I've been up since 6am and on my 30th hole of the day in a hilling and physically demanding golf course and I've a 2 hour drive ahead of me with work at 9am the next day then this is when some poor golf in round 2 and the things outside of golf come into consideration. Is that so hard to believe?

Golfgorfield

Redzah wrote: »

Well, a DNF is a NR but a NR is not necessarily a DNF.

Why do you separate the 2 and have a strong issue on the DNF.

In my eyes the NR where somebody purposefully keeps their card in their pocket despite completing the round is worse as there is a major issue with Handicap's in the championships. Those who deliberately keep them low through numerous methods so they can get in. This leads to many +1 golfers who would be an average junior cup player. These are the lads who keep the cards in their pockets as the scores could be in the high 80's or worse. Personally, I can never understand anybody lower than a 3ish handicap shooting higher than 85 (no matter how bad, it doesn't stack up so it. These guys end up taking the slot of better golfers who can't get in.

If you want to say that I am wrong if I have previously walked off the course on my second round of a given day then fair enough but it is for selfish reasons and better use of my time why I did this and the NR's who finish their round and don't give in the score due to the size of it are more of a plague on the game than my actions are.

I shot 83 in RD1 of the west this year, my hcap is +2.5, does that automatically mean i shouldn't be in the field?

Conditions can be tough, go have a look at the Irish Am open this week in Royal Dublin, see if you think you could/should play to your hcap.


Id rather hand in my big number than NR it looks defeatist and reeks of ego problems.

Golfgorfield

Redzah wrote: »

Not quite that simple. A player of your experience will see the numerous guys who take off after 18 holes of a scratch cup having performed poorly in round 1 for example, I wish to clarify that I have never done this as round 2 is always a fresh start and poor golf may only leave you 6-8 shots behind so its a fun challenge to try and claw your way back into placing in it.

However, when it hits 5pm and I've been up since 6am and on my 30th hole of the day in a hilling and physically demanding golf course and I've a 2 hour drive ahead of me with work at 9am the next day then this is when some poor golf in round 2 and the things outside of golf come into consideration. Is that so hard to believe?

If you were playing well, and had a good score, you would still have the same 2hr drive home, and still have work in the morning!

I don't believe anyone should head away mid round coz it suits them, have some respect for your playing partners and the host club.

BigChap1759

Redzah wrote: »

Not quite that simple. A player of your experience will see the numerous guys who take off after 18 holes of a scratch cup having performed poorly in round 1 for example, I wish to clarify that I have never done this as round 2 is always a fresh start and poor golf may only leave you 6-8 shots behind so its a fun challenge to try and claw your way back into placing in it.

However, when it hits 5pm and I've been up since 6am and on my 30th hole of the day in a hilling and physically demanding golf course and I've a 2 hour drive ahead of me with work at 9am the next day then this is when some poor golf in round 2 and the things outside of golf come into consideration. Is that so hard to believe?

Awwwww, poor lamb........all I can hear are excuses to excuse your(not necessarily you personally, anyone who does this) awful etiquette and selfish attitude. If you start the round you have an obligation to your partners to finish, injury or exceptional circumstances not withstanding.

Redzah

Golfgorfield wrote: »

I shot 83 in RD1 of the west this year, my hcap is +2.5, does that automatically mean i shouldn't be in the field?

Conditions can be tough, go have a look at the Irish Am open this week in Royal Dublin, see if you think you could/should play to your hcap.


Id rather hand in my big number than NR it looks defeatist and reeks of ego problems.

Well, I said 85 so you shot 2 lower than the score I mentioned (well done ). I understand conditions can be tough and I have played in some of these conditions but there comes a point when a high score is not understandable and for me anything over 85 is shocking even in poor conditions.

Its just a different attitude, you're saying by walking in after the 30th hole of the day that it's defeatist, I would argue that I just value my time highly and at some point in my 2nd round, it became a complete waste of my time. Maybe you value your morals on this issue higher than you value your time? That's fine with me and I understand it but I have a different view on it.

Redzah

Golfgorfield wrote: »

If you were playing well, and had a good score, you would still have the same 2hr drive home, and still have work in the morning!

I don't believe anyone should head away mid round coz it suits them, have some respect for your playing partners and the host club.

Yes, I would still have the same 2 hour drive home but I would have made better use of my time by playing well. I don't think its a lack of respect to my playing partners if I leave the course nor is it a lack of respect to the home club. If my playing partner takes it as a lack of respect by me leaving then I think he has his own problems.

I'm still not sure what your issue is here. Is it bad etiquette that you are concerned about or do you believe actions such as these damage the game in some way?

There are so many bigger issues at the championships/scratch cups than what I have stated I have done the odd time here. I have been honest about the rationale I have used when I have done and to me it makes sense. Your view or anybody elses view will not change this.

Redzah

BigChap1759 wrote: »

Awwwww, poor lamb........all I can hear are excuses to excuse your(not necessarily you personally, anyone who does this) awful etiquette and selfish attitude. If you start the round you have an obligation to your partners to finish, injury or exceptional circumstances not withstanding.

Not really excuses, just 'lads I've had enough and its late, slow and miserable out, thanks for the game'. Its not an obligation to finish the round, if it was then the GUI would have brought this in as a rule.

You might not like my honest attitude regarding this but to me golf is a hobby that I enjoy and one I enjoy being competitive at. Sometimes you just have enough after a long day and it doesn't really harm anybody by giving the last few holes a miss. Think some attitudes need to lighten up a bit here

BigChap1759

Redzah wrote: »

Not really excuses, just 'lads I've had enough and its late, slow and miserable out, thanks for the game'. Its not an obligation to finish the round, if it was then the GUI would have brought this in as a rule.

You might not like my honest attitude regarding this but to me golf is a hobby that I enjoy and one I enjoy being competitive at. Sometimes you just have enough after a long day and it doesn't really harm anybody by giving the last few holes a miss. Think some attitudes need to lighten up a bit here

It sounds like an incredibly self centered attitude to me I'm afraid - I'm not going to win so I'm going home and taking my ball with me.......

What would happen if everyone who was out of contention took the same attitude - a third of the field walking off!

Golfgorfield

Redzah wrote: »

Not really excuses, just 'lads I've had enough and its late, slow and miserable out, thanks for the game'. Its not an obligation to finish the round, if it was then the GUI would have brought this in as a rule.

You might not like my honest attitude regarding this but to me golf is a hobby that I enjoy and one I enjoy being competitive at. Sometimes you just have enough after a long day and it doesn't really harm anybody by giving the last few holes a miss. Think some attitudes need to lighten up a bit here

It 100% harms your playing partners, its happened to me on occasion and its actually insulting that someone walks off, off putting and downright rude.

Redzah

Golfgorfield wrote: »

It 100% harms your playing partners, its happened to me on occasion and its actually insulting that someone walks off, off putting and downright rude.

Ah I'd argue that if it affects someone that much that they have their own issues to deal with. I've had others walk off on me and it didn't affect me at all.

For the record, I'm not saying I've done it that much but I'm explaining my rationale for the times I have done it. Sure is it really that much worse than you driving off with the card in your back pocket as your said (error or no error). For example, I very much doubt that the card in your back pocket contained a low number?

Golfgorfield

Redzah wrote: »

Ah I'd argue that if it affects someone that much that they have their own issues to deal with. I've had others walk off on me and it didn't affect me at all.

For the record, I'm not saying I've done it that much but I'm explaining my rationale for the times I have done it. Sure is it really that much worse than you driving off with the card in your back pocket as your said (error or no error). For example, I very much doubt that the card in your back pocket contained a low number?

Someone leaving the group has a massive effect on rhythm and at a high level it can b be very off putting, why do you think pro events send out a marker to play at the front of the field instead of a player playing alone?

So walking off mid round is the same as driving off with a card in your pocket and has the same effect?
Have you been drinking?

That card contained a 77, after a 74 in RD 1 which would have missed the cut by 2 shots. It was before they introduced a scorers hut there which leaves it nigh on impossible to mess up your card.

Redzah

Golfgorfield wrote: »

Someone leaving the group has a massive effect on rhythm and at a high level it can b be very off putting, why do you think pro events send out a marker to play at the front of the field instead of a player playing alone?

So walking off mid round is the same as driving off with a card in your pocket and has the same effect?
Have you been drinking?

That card contained a 77, after a 74 in RD 1 which would have missed the cut by 2 shots. It was before they introduced a scorers hut there which leaves it nigh on impossible to mess up your card.

If your card contained a 67 instead of a 77 then it would be nigh on impossible to mess it up also I would argue (scorers hut or not).

To be honest, I'm surprised it is that easy to upset your rhythm. Anyways, just giving my view on why I have had an NR previously, I don't think my view on it is the biggest problem around amateur golf events.

ArielAtom

Gents,

I am not sure the case of NR's is simply with top amateur events. I have seen + h/c's in the past not enter into a competition, shoot a good score then enter after their 18 or shoot bad score and tear up card get in car and drive away. This also happens in other hc brackets, but in the elite it is protecting their hc to ensure entry into top events. Either way it's not right.

Golfgorfield

ArielAtom wrote: »

Gents,

I am not sure the case of NR's is simply with top amateur events. I have seen + h/c's in the past not enter into a competition, shoot a good score then enter after their 18 or shoot bad score and tear up card get in car and drive away. This also happens in other hc brackets, but in the elite it is protecting their hc to ensure entry into top events. Either way it's not right.

Thats a problem with the club, there needs to be time limits set for comp entry.

mike12

Think there are 2 types of nr's one when u don't submit a score and those who do but don't finish a hole. See no real problem with the second a big score with one hole not
filled in doesn't effect anything. As long as the score card is returned.
Thought all clubs had a enter the comp on the computer before teeing off policy, stupid if they don't.