Leaving Big 4, yay or nay?

santino

Hi All,

Apologies if this is in the wrong area or if I've missed a similar thread (I've had a look around and all I've found has been threads talking about accountancy/audit jobs).

I'd appreciate some opinions/comments on the below:

Basically, I trained as an accountant in a small firm. Started the tax exams shortly after my accounting exams and once qualified, applied to a Big 4 firm as a Tax Assistant (to get my leg in the door). I got the job and have been working there for almost 2 years now (have progressed to Senior in that time). My area is Income Tax/Capital Gains Tax, which I enjoy.

I have to admit, it took a big adjustment getting used to the Big 4 environment. I don't care what anybody says, it is a lot harder coming into a Big 4 from a smaller practice. I have more or less settled into the place at this stage (there had also been an issue with a co-worker previously etc. but I have learned to deal with that).

However, at the moment I'm being sounded out by a medium sized tax firm. The role being offered is more along the lines of consultancy, wealth protection /estate planning etc, i.e. not just preparing pure tax returns. This is something I'd be very interested in pursuing, if offered the position. Where I am presently, I don't think there are many opportunities for consulting work (not in the short to medium term anyway).

I'm also well aware that the salary may not be on a par with the Big 4. While I'm not on a relatively great salary at the minute, my progression up the Senior ladder, if I did stay, would bring me up to a decent salary over the coming years.

However, the more I think about it, I'm leaning more towards leaving the Big 4. One cannot escape the politics and rubbish that goes on in the place sometimes. That stuff doesn't interest me, I'd rather just get on with my job, work hard and have a nice office environment. (I'm being a bit harsh there - most of my colleagues are pretty ok, but there's always one as they say).

Question is: leaving Big 4, yay or nay?

• Was anybody in a similar situation previously and how did it work out? (I'd also welcome feedback from current Big 4 workers)
• Should I give it another while in the Big 4, say another year or two, to develop my career a bit further?
• When dealing with clients, is it easier dealing as a Big 4 person (i.e. is there a perception, and I'm highlighting perception because there are some excellent people working for non-Big 4 firms, that Big 4 people are at a higher calibre than people at other firms).
• And finally, if I did want to come back to the Big 4 in the future, is it easier to get back in having big 4 experience previously?

As I said, I would welcome any feedback on the above. I don't have any people in other Big 4 firms that I can bounce this off (or know of people that left Big 4 previously).

Thanks.

Uncle Mclovin

Do you mind me asking how you got the job of tax assistant? Did you just send your CV to all the Big 4?

I'm in a similar position to you in that I trained in a smaller practice and would like to get Big 4 experience.

Were you ACA and AITI qualified when you applied?

santino

Uncle Mclovin wrote: »

Do you mind me asking how you got the job of tax assistant? Did you just send your CV to all the Big 4?

I'm in a similar position to you in that I trained in a smaller practice and would like to get Big 4 experience.

Were you ACA and AITI qualified when you applied?

Hi McLovin,

I actually saw the ad on a jobs website and applied directly to them. I didn't apply to all the Big 4, no. Just took my chance and was lucky to get it.

I was ACCA qualified about 3 years and had just taken the AITI Part 3 exams (was waiting for a result of one repeat when I appled, the job was kind of dependent on me passing that exam, which I did thank god).

Hope that's helps. Best of luck.
If you want to chat more, PM me.

Uncle Mclovin

Thanks Santino. Thats very interesting to hear. I'm actually sitting Part 3's myself next week.

Best of luck with whatever decision you make.

marizpan

What is your career goal?
If it doesn't involve big4, then you have stayed long enough to get it on your cv.
I'm in top10 but I imagine it is similar, the guys in the tax department stay max 2yrs ( while doing AITI) and then leave for industry. They are gone ASAP!

santino

marizpan wrote: »

What is your career goal?
If it doesn't involve big4, then you have stayed long enough to get it on your cv.
I'm in top10 but I imagine it is similar, the guys in the tax department stay max 2yrs ( while doing AITI) and then leave for industry. They are gone ASAP!

Hmm, I'm not 100%. Very long term, I probably don't see myself staying with big4. Part of me would like to stay another year or 18 months (again just for CV purposes and/or to see if it leads to more interesting work).

Funny, I don't have any major urge to go into industry. Not that I'm adverse to it, just that I've never researched industry jobs and am not sure of the kinds of tax jobs one can get in industry (bar VAT/indirect tax jobs). If you could throw any light on that, feel free.
Thanks.

marizpan

You need to figure out your career goals!
Nobody can give you much advice until then.
Have you asked the other tax staff? Where do they go after big4? What is their plans?

gingerpele

As above poster said the key is what you want to do long term.

I trained in tax in Big 4 and stayed until was a manager for 1 year. Spent the whole year as manager looking for other jobs waiting for good opportunity to come along and jumped as soon as I found it.

I am a million times happier not in Big 4. I now get paid less than my friends who stayed behind (certainly when consider their bonuses) but I also don't sit on the couch on Sunday evenings dreading the next 5 days anymore!

So I say get out- but only if it fits in with longer/medium term plans. Make sure jumping to a job you would prefer and could see yourself progressing at.

If you don't want to stay in Big 4 long-term then definitely get out within a year of being a manager. Otherwise get used to the money and can be hard to leave.

Mr. Incognito

Trained in a big 4. Left and retrained as a solicitor and do tax consultancy and legal.

Big 4 is well paid slavery. Banging like a monkey away on tax returns. Dreadfully dull.

All depends on your own ambitions. I wanted a challenge. Would never go back.

santino

Hi guys,

Apologies for the delay in responding.

Thanks for all your great feedback. It's appreciated and I'll take it on board when making my decision.

I'm due to meet the manager of the other firm in the coming week so will see what comes of that. It mightn't be the right fit for right now but at least I'll know for sure, no regrets at this stage and all that. The level of progression in the other firm would be one of the top questions I'd ask.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Also, as a general question, what is the (rough) difference in salary between Big 4 and medium practices? A few people here mentioned that Big 4 is very well paid the higher one goes.

Marzipan asked in one of the posts what other people in the office tend to do. Our office is quite compact and the majority of staff are managers who seem to be happy to stay around, i.e. there isn't a big-turnover of staff so I can't answer that question truthfully.

Mr. Incognito, can I ask, do you like the tax consultancy side of things?

Thanks again.

macmontyson

Industry is the way to go.

Better pay (potentially)
Less stress
Work life balance
No time sheets!
Not restricted to working in the cities

You won't find many people who moved from Practice to Industry that regret it.

santino

macmontyson wrote: »

Industry is the way to go.

Better pay (potentially)
Less stress
Work life balance
No time sheets!
Not restricted to working in the cities

You won't find many people who moved from Practice to Industry that regret it.

That's very interesting.

Can I ask what kind of tax jobs there are in industry? Is it looking after corporation tax, VAT etc

Thanks

Mr. Incognito

santino wrote: »

Hi guys,

Apologies for the delay in responding.

Thanks for all your great feedback. It's appreciated and I'll take it on board when making my decision.

I'm due to meet the manager of the other firm in the coming week so will see what comes of that. It mightn't be the right fit for right now but at least I'll know for sure, no regrets at this stage and all that. The level of progression in the other firm would be one of the top questions I'd ask.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Also, as a general question, what is the (rough) difference in salary between Big 4 and medium practices? A few people here mentioned that Big 4 is very well paid the higher one goes.

Marzipan asked in one of the posts what other people in the office tend to do. Our office is quite compact and the majority of staff are managers who seem to be happy to stay around, i.e. there isn't a big-turnover of staff so I can't answer that question truthfully.

Mr. Incognito, can I ask, do you like the tax consultancy side of things?

Thanks again.

I love the tax consultancy side but its combined with my work as a lawyer.

Would be the point of contact in our firm for vat, corporate restructuring and m and a stamp duty, audit defences, technical queries and trusts, tax efficient wills etc.

I dont touch compliance anymore beyond the odd foray into my own tax return.

Its about variety. If you want to consistenty challenge yourself and learn get out and do it.

If you are happy nine to five earning a comfortable living re hashing the same narrow advice stay in a big four.

I have learned though that you need a broad knowledge to give truly innovate solutions. The amount of tax advisors that fall foul of company law is shocking as well as the amount of lawyers that cannot structure transactions in a tax efficient manner.

macmontyson

Generally industry roles include:

Tax Manager
Tax Compliance Manager
Indirect Tax Manager
Tax Specialist

Most managerial roles involve overseeing all tax issues related to a specific jurisdiction. It depends on the company as different activities will encounter different levels of exposure and tax issues.

Generally unless you are working in a specific role i.e. corporate tax compliance or indirect you'll be looking at all of the tax heads depending on what the transactions the company is involved in. Obviously the more dynamic and complex the environment that the company is working in the better.

DaeryssaOne

macmontyson wrote: »

Industry is the way to go.

Better pay (potentially)
Less stress
Work life balance
No time sheets!
Not restricted to working in the cities

You won't find many people who moved from Practice to Industry that regret it.

This 100%

Trained in big 4 for 6+ years and got out last year to make the move into industry. Absolutely love it and not just for the reasons stated above. Work is more all-round, more interesting projects to really become involved in and all is relatively stress-free (bar the occasional deadlines re year-end, project deadlines).

While I'm definitely glad I got the training in the Big4; getting away from all the ridiculous politics, late nights, psychotic bosses etc. I am a hell of a lot happier in both my work and personal life.

santino

jobr wrote: »

This 100%

Trained in big 4 for 6+ years and got out last year to make the move into industry. Absolutely love it and not just for the reasons stated above. Work is more all-round, more interesting projects to really become involved in and all is relatively stress-free (bar the occasional deadlines re year-end, project deadlines).

While I'm definitely glad I got the training in the Big4; getting away from all the ridiculous politics, late nights, psychotic bosses etc. I am a hell of a lot happier in both my work and personal life.

I have to say, the more people talk about industry here, the more I'm being tempted, or at least to check it out.

Can I ask, how did you find the jump from practice, were you given good training/time for work that you may not have necessary have come across in practice e.g. reporting to international teams, budgeting, forecasting, etc.