NCT don't test brakes properly

Interslice

I just bought a new car with siezed rear calipers. It was NCT'd 1 month ago. They've been this way for at least 2 years I'd say, judging by the cut of the discs. Lost the back of the car twice today. It's similar to your passenger lifting the handbrake mid corner. The brakes are also full of air. The braking performance in a straight line pretty awful. Without meaning to sound OTT there is surely people dying over this. It makes a farce of the whole NCT IMO. Not worth the paper its written on really if your car is a death trap with a half working set of brakes. Not wishing to bash the NCT overall, the rest of it is pretty good, but for my 55 euro I'd want someone to check the brakes properly. Not my first experience of this either. Exact same thing happened on my last car. Between lazy mechanics and many people now half arse DIYing brake pads on to rotten discs and siezed calipers they should be alot more thorough in their inspection/ make it more difficult to pass on the rolling road test.

cml387

If you are depending on the NCT to ensure your car is roadworthy you may be seriously mistaken.
Car in crash that killed four "not roadworthy despite NCT

Three months previously the vehicle had passed an NCT, an inquest was told in Mullingar.But the inquest was told a ball joint on the front wheel was loose and should have been removed and replaced.

*Kol*

Did you not drive it before you bought it??

cnoc

Interslice wrote: »

I just bought a new car with siezed rear calipers. It was NCT'd 1 month ago. They've been this way for at least 2 years I'd say, judging by the cut of the discs.

Why did you buy a car with seized calipers? As above poster asked "did you not test drive it beforehand"?

pippip

Might be worth checking the NCT disc/cert is real?

*Kol*

pippip wrote: »

Might be worth checking the NCT disc/cert is real?

Might be worth the OP improving his pre purchase inspection technique. As a matter of interest what type of car is it and how old/what mileage?

CiniO

Interslice wrote: »

I just bought a new car with siezed rear calipers. It was NCT'd 1 month ago. They've been this way for at least 2 years I'd say, judging by the cut of the discs.

Can you show us a photo of this cut oof the discs?

Lost the back of the car twice today. It's similar to your passenger lifting the handbrake mid corner.

If rear callipers are seized, how could this cause you to loose back of the car?
If they were really seized, they wouldn't work.

visual

There is too much faith when buying that a newly nct ' ed car is perfect.

All that cert does is prove on day of test it pasted minimum road worthy requirements.

9935452

Interslice wrote: »

I just bought a new car with siezed rear calipers. It was NCT'd 1 month ago. They've been this way for at least 2 years I'd say, judging by the cut of the discs. Lost the back of the car twice today. It's similar to your passenger lifting the handbrake mid corner. The brakes are also full of air. The braking performance in a straight line pretty awful. Without meaning to sound OTT there is surely people dying over this. It makes a farce of the whole NCT IMO. Not worth the paper its written on really if your car is a death trap with a half working set of brakes. Not wishing to bash the NCT overall, the rest of it is pretty good, but for my 55 euro I'd want someone to check the brakes properly. Not my first experience of this either. Exact same thing happened on my last car. Between lazy mechanics and many people now half arse DIYing brake pads on to rotten discs and siezed calipers they should be alot more thorough in their inspection/ make it more difficult to pass on the rolling road test.

Sounds like a bit of a problem with the ABS . Friend of a friend changed discs one day, got grease on abs sensor, back end of car went going around a corner, cleaned sensor , everything fine again.

What make and model car is it??

mickdw

While much of the ops post sounds iffy, I did bring a landcruiser for it commercial test there last year. On driving it to the test centre, the brakes were nothing short of dangerous, long pedal, very little braking effort etc. 30 mph was max it was safe to drive at. It wasn't mine but I was actually embarrassed dropping it in thinking the tester would say it was unsafe to drive.
It passed no bother. Anyway, I said I would look at the brakes for the owner. Front calipers were seized solid on 3 of 4 pistons each side.
Imo, the minimum brake performance requirement needs to be raised.

biko

Bit of a leap there OP.
You don't know for sure brakes were seized when car was NCT'd.
Did you get the last NCT sheet with car?

Interslice

Pic of the rear discs. Took the rear brakes apart today. Cleaned them up and regresed them. Bled plenty of air out. Much better. If your going to put new pads onto crusty old brakes at least get out the wire brush and a bit of grease. Sliding out is still there. I think its the m and s tyres. The a 60 profile instead of a 55 like the fronts... so either on roundabouts theyre rubbing on the bottom spring cup and locking up or just give you no grip. Would have thought theyd be grippy enough in the wet. Theyll be getting the bin tuesday anyway. Michelin pilots with 5mm of tthread and even wear.

Sliding out in a controlled sort of manner with no one around. Just getting to know the car.

My point about the brakes still stands. Those discs should have failed the car brakeswise after just a visual inspection.

Interslice

The tyre rubbing on the spring seems to be problem sticking the hand in. But its the same on both sides of the axle so NCT gold... absolute deathtrap in trap in the wet. Done the test drive buying the car in the dry. Through it into a roundabout and all was good. Car felt grippy enough. Didnt notice the odd tyre sizes until the day after I bought it which was yesterday. Ironically the 2 rear tyres got an advisory on being 6years old .

jca

Those discs are dire and should be replaced. In defence of the nct it isn't possible to see the inner face of the rear discs on many cars. Mine is one of them, the rear shield covers the whole disc and the only way to see the inner surface is to remove the pads and caliper.

Interslice

jca wrote: »

Those discs are dire and should be replaced. In defence of the nct it isn't possible to see the inner face of the rear discs on many cars. Mine is one of them, the rear shield covers the whole disc and the only way to see the inner surface is to remove the pads and caliper.

The sheild was rotten and pressed against the back of the disc! Need a new one of them too! The discs will have to do for a week or two. Far more concerned about them tyres. BH monday tomorrow too.

bucketybuck

If the calipers are completely seized then the car does not pass the brake test, simple as that. It isn't a judgement call by a bored tester, if they are seized and don't engage then the car will not pass the test.

mickdw

Interslice wrote: »

The sheild was rotten and pressed against the back of the disc! Need a new one of them too! The discs will have to do for a week or two. Far more concerned about them tyres. BH monday tomorrow too.

Those shields are now a fail too if rusted badly. What you describe should certainly have been a fail before you ever get to brake performance.
Are you sure that this car actually has a genuine nct?

Asmooh

you should inspect your car every 1-3 months instead of waiting for NCT! what is wrong with people today

Interslice

bucketybuck wrote: »

If the calipers are completely seized then the car does not pass the brake test, simple as that. It isn't a judgement call by a bored tester, if they are seized and don't engage then the car will not pass the test.

Completely 100% seized is a good benchmark for a fail then?

Earlier by caliper sticking/seizing I meant the whole brake assembly. Sliders, pads and pistons.

Interslice

mickdw wrote: »

Those shields are now a fail too if rusted badly. What you describe should certainly have been a fail before you ever get to brake performance.
Are you sure that this car actually has a genuine nct?

It has the disk and the matching test sheet and the coloured one you rip the disc off. Holograms etc. I'll have a look properly now.

Don't see anything about tyres to big or tyres rubbing on suspension etc. in the manual. You'd think it would be something they would check for.

slimjimmc

I wouldn't be too quick to assume the NCT passed the wheels as they may not have been on the car during the test. It's not unknown for wheels to be swapped out purely for the test.

It seems that some certs stolen from NCT back in 2013 are still in circulation.
http://www.thejournal.ie/stolen-nct-certs-1944477-Feb2015/

Punch your reg in here and it'll tell when the cert expired/expires.
https://www.ncts.ie/booking_app/Bookings/NCTReminder.aspx?language=english

Interslice

slimjimmc wrote: »

I wouldn't be too quick to assume the NCT passed the wheels as they may not have been on the car during the test. It's not unknown for wheels to be swapped out purely for the test.

It seems that some certs stolen from NCT back in 2013 are still in circulation.
http://www.thejournal.ie/stolen-nct-certs-1944477-Feb2015/

Fair point on the wheels. I'd say he put it through with these tyres on it though. Told me he did and there's a 6 years or more advisory which adds up. Test sheet looks exactly like an old one I had. Not one of them serial numberes in the article and all the numbers add up. VIN no. etc. Overall its a great car. Delighted with it. Just has a strong urge to go backwards into a ditch at the moment but easily put right.

NCT due mar 2016 is on their system. Thanks Slimjim for that. Handy link.

Interslice

Asmooh wrote: »

you should inspect your car every 1-3 months instead of waiting for NCT! what is wrong with people today

My first time buying a car with a valid NCT cert! Ha! Just another bit of overpriced useless paper cluttering up my windscreen.

lollsangel

I put my Santa few through its test 2 years ago, a few days before the test it started shaking badly while braking. I decided seeing as I was going to lose money anyway I would sent it through, find out the problem and get it fixed. It passed, brought it to my mechanic the following week, the brake drums were shot.

gooner99

mickdw wrote: »

Those shields are now a fail too if rusted badly. What you describe should certainly have been a fail before you ever get to brake performance.
Are you sure that this car actually has a genuine nct?

Yes I heard they were cracking down on them big time recently. Was talking to a garage man that told me he changed them on an avensis that failed at a parts cost approx €100 a corner. By contrast he said he did a golf for parts cost of €26 for all corners.

But I have also read somewhere that someone just removed them for the retest (celica I think) and it passed!

mickdw

gooner99 wrote: »

Yes I heard they were cracking down on them big time recently. Was talking to a garage man that told me he changed them on an avensis that failed at a parts cost approx €100 a corner. By contrast he said he did a golf for parts cost of €26 for all corners.

But I have also read somewhere that someone just removed them for the retest (celica I think) and it passed!

They are 15 each for octavia anyway. Dealer only.

mullingar

@op, if you have a 4wd system they don't test the wheels individually on the tester, they bring it onto a road and measure breaking efficiency by using a calibrated decelerometer.