Boiler gone advice needed

iamtony

Hi lads the boiler was tripping the electricity every time it came on and when i put my hand on the bottom of the boiler it is wet. So it's all turned off now from the switch and the boiler is turned off.
The boiler is 20 years old and the flu or vent goes up the chimney.
So I'm going to need a new boiler and I need to know if this flu can still be used or will the whole thing have to be moved to an outside wall which will involve ripping up floors etc.
Also I'm wondering is the seai grant for boilers worth applying for?
Thanks.

K.Flyer

iamtony wrote: »

Hi lads the boiler was tripping the electricity every time it came on and when i put my hand on the bottom of the boiler it is wet. So it's all turned off now from the switch and the boiler is turned off.
The boiler is 20 years old and the flu or vent goes up the chimney.
So I'm going to need a new boiler and

I need to know if this flu can still be used

No, you must fit a new a flue.

will the whole thing have to be moved to an outside wall which will involve ripping up floors etc.

Not necessarily so, only a site visit by a competent installer can advise you on that.

Also I'm wondering is the seai grant for boilers worth applying for?
Thanks.

That depends on how much upgrading of controls are required and the cost to fit.
Again, the installer should be able to advise.

iamtony

Thanks lads that new flu sounds like a better option if it's possible, I'll check it out Tuesday.
Are those new chimney flu systems expensive do you know?

iamtony

agusta wrote: »

Fairly expensive,.It still should be alot cheaper than moving the boiler to a outside wall.The best boiler on the market is the grant vortex and after that the grant euroflame

Thanks. Good god they are expensive boilers! I'm hoping I can get out of this for less than €2,000.00 with the new flue is that even possible??

Gasherbraun

iamtony wrote: »

Thanks. Good god they are expensive boilers! I'm hoping I can get out of this for less than €2,000.00 with the new flue is that even possible??

Is your existing boiler gas or oil? I think Grant are oil fired boilers.

iamtony

Gasherbraun wrote: »

Is your existing boiler gas or oil? I think Grant are oil fired boilers.

It's a natural gas boiler.

Gasherbraun

iamtony wrote: »

It's a natural gas boiler.

Ok. Not sure what region you are in but I can PM a couple of recommendations re RGI installers that we use regularly in the greater Dublin / Kildare area. Let me know if this is any use.

iamtony

Gasherbraun wrote: »

Ok. Not sure what region you are in but I can PM a couple of recommendations re RGI installers that we use regularly in the greater Dublin / Kildare area. Let me know if this is any use.

Thanks I'm on the northside of dublin but my father inlaw works for Heiton Buckleys and said he can sort out the plumper and a boiler so I kinda have to use his guy I'm really trying to get a rough cost. Thanks.

Gasherbraun

iamtony wrote: »

Thanks I'm on the northside of dublin but my father inlaw works for Heiton Buckleys and said he can sort out the plumper and a boiler so I kinda have to use his guy I'm really trying to get a rough cost. Thanks.

Ok. we pay generally €2000.00 (inc VAT) for a new install but this is very site specific. Prices generally higher if going for the SEI grant or relocating boiler. As others have said you need an RGI to look at it for a clear idea since there are variables only they may pick up on.

Would add that we could get installs cheaper but with boilers cheap is not always best.

Also check that the installer is including a power flush of the system.

Cerco

Gasherbraun wrote: »

Ok. we pay generally €2000.00 (inc VAT) for a new install but this is very site specific. Prices generally higher if going for the SEI grant or relocating boiler. As others have said you need an RGI to look at it for a clear idea since there are variables only they may pick up on.

Would add that we could get installs cheaper but with boilers cheap is not always best.

Also check that the installer is including a power flush of the system.

Why are prices higher when going for SEI grant?
Is there a valid reason for this?

Gasherbraun

Cerco wrote: »

Why are prices higher when going for SEI grant?
Is there a valid reason for this?

Usually more work required on supplementary areas such as heating controls in order to qualify for the grant. In theory the extra work will make the heating system more efficient and save money in the long term.

iamtony

Gasherbraun wrote: »

Ok. we pay generally €2000.00 (inc VAT) for a new install but this is very site specific. Prices generally higher if going for the SEI grant or relocating boiler. As others have said you need an RGI to look at it for a clear idea since there are variables only they may pick up on.

Would add that we could get installs cheaper but with boilers cheap is not always best.

Also check that the installer is including a power flush of the system.

Ok great thanks for the info I'll let you's know how I get on.

Dtp1979

Ye 2k mark is approx what you'll be paying. If your going up with a new flue it'll be more. If your moving the boiler then extra pipe work will be needed too so that'll be extra. Whichever way you go, make sure you get the system power flushed and ideally fit a magnetic filter on the return to the new boiler.
Heating controls can vary in price but would start at 500 up to 1000. If you get this done with the boiler changeover then I'm sure the installer could do it cheaper

iamtony

Have a plumber coming tomorrow. He basically insisted we moved the boiler but said he wouldn't have to disturb the floor too much.
He is also plumbing a new sink and cooker. All in parts and labour inc. a combi boiler €1560 including the kitchen work. Not as bad as I first imagined.

Dtp1979

iamtony wrote: »

Have a plumber coming tomorrow. He basically insisted we moved the boiler but said he wouldn't have to disturb the floor too much.
He is also plumbing a new sink and cooker. All in parts and labour inc. a combi boiler €1560 including the kitchen work. Not as bad as I first imagined.

You get what you pay for. 1560 for a combi fitted is wayyyy to cheap. Corners are being cut I can guarantee that

rightjob!

Dtp1979 wrote: »

You get what you pay for. 1560 for a combo fitted is wayyyy to cheap. Corners are being cut I can guarantee that

its even too cheap for a system boiler,never mind a combi sink and cooker!

Dtp1979

rightjob! wrote: »

its even too cheap for a system boiler,never mind a combi sink and cooker!

That'd barely buy the materials

iamtony

As I said the father inlaw works in builder providers. All the materials are costing 1060 inc combi boiler and all the bits needed to move it, plus the sink stuff and cooker fittings.
Labour is costing €500 for 2 days.

No corners will be cut I can promise you that.

iamtony

Buy the way I have the cooker and sink inc. tap alreAdy that's not in the price.

Dtp1979

iamtony wrote: »

As I said the father inlaw works in builder providers. All the materials are costing 1060 inc combi boiler and all the bits needed to move it, plus the sink stuff and cooker fittings.
Labour is costing €500 for 2 days.

No corners will be cut I can promise you that.

Well seeing as a powerflush is 1 days work, and fitting the boiler (system boiler) and commissioning is another I don't see how your guy is doing it as your moving the boiler, fitting a combi which has more pipiwork and doing the other bits in 2 days.

iamtony

I'll report back after the job is done and tell you what has been done. I was told the guy is very good at what he does so all I can do it trust the father in law at this point.

K.Flyer

Ok I can understand mates rates and all of that and the F.I.L. getting staff rates on all the materials, but flushing a system and converting from a conventional system to a combi system in 2 days sounds a bit too optimistic and very cheap.
If he is using mains water direct to the boiler (albeit against Council bye laws) check that he has done a pressure and flow test on the mains to ensure that the supply conforms to the boiler manufacturers requirements.
Boiler manufacturers are getting stricter with their warranties, so if it's not 100% right and there is a problem, you may find they won't cover you, so just check all is done right.
Otherwise hope it all goes well.
p.s. Make sure a good magnetic filter is fitted.

Dtp1979

Also, make sure the boiler is a condensing model, and that at least 3/4" gas pipe is ran to it. And +1 on the mag filter.
If your in a hard water area then a limescale filter is an absolute must too or your boiler won't last a year

iamtony

Ok thanks lads I'll keep an eye on what he's doing tomorrow. I'm fitting a kitchen at the same time so I'll see what he's up to as the day goes by.

rightjob!

iamtony wrote: »

Ok thanks lads I'll keep an eye on what he's doing tomorrow. I'm fitting a kitchen at the same time so I'll see what he's up to as the day goes by.

make sure you get a cert for the install too.

iamtony

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Also, make sure the boiler is a condensing model, and that at least 3/4" gas pipe is ran to it. And +1 on the mag filter.
If your in a hard water area then a limescale filter is an absolute must too or your boiler won't last a year

He did mention how efficient condensing boilers were compared to my old one but that was before I asked about a combi boiler I'll double check that in the morning. Thanks.

Dtp1979

iamtony wrote: »

He did mention how efficient condensing boilers were compared to my old one but that was before I asked about a combi boiler I'll double check that in the morning. Thanks.

How many bathrooms do you have?

iamtony

Dtp1979 wrote: »

How many bathrooms do you have?

Just the one at the moment it's an old house but I am planning on extending next year and will add one downstairs at that stage.

Dtp1979

iamtony wrote: »

Just the one at the moment it's an old house but I am planning on extending next year and will add one downstairs at that stage.

If your adding an extra shower make sure the plumber knows this because he'll have to size the boiler accordingly

iamtony

Dtp1979 wrote: »

If your adding an extra shower make sure the plumber knows this because he'll have to size the boiler accordingly

Upstairs shower is electric. On that point Whats more efficient using the combi boiler for a shower or an electric shower? He was going to fit a pump till he realised the shower was electric and said there was no need if it's only for heating the hot taps but he could add one at a later stage when we get the extension if needs be.

Dtp1979

I like to do it right from day one. Some guys don't agree but I'd fit a tank and pump and not rely on the crap Irish mains water. At least with the pump and tank your going to have constant uninterrupted supply and a reserve of cold water. Plus any add ons at a later stage won't matter as long as the boiler is big enough and the gas supply is adequate. What make of boiler is he fitting?

iamtony

Dtp1979 wrote: »

I like to do it right from day one. Some guys don't agree but I'd fit a tank and pump and not rely on the crap Irish mains water. At least with the pump and tank your going to have constant uninterrupted supply and a reserve of cold water. Plus any add ons at a later stage won't matter as long as the boiler is big enough and the gas supply is adequate. What make of boiler is he fitting?

Never had a problem with the mains pressure I know where your coming from with doing it right first time but I'm happy to be only spending that amount for now ive a trip to Vegas to pay for by the end of the month on top of all the normal stuff I've to pay.
A cold water reserve would be nice to have all the same though I can't remember the last time the water went around here and when it did we were given warming.

I can't tell you the make off the top of my head I seen it on the invoice today but I don't have it on me.

cerastes

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Also, make sure the boiler is a condensing model, and that at least 3/4" gas pipe is ran to it. And +1 on the mag filter.
If your in a hard water area then a limescale filter is an absolute must too or your boiler won't last a year

Whats a good filter make? and if relying on the plumber to check how do you know or test if the water is hard?
If a boiler was fitted which had a cert given, but it turned out a flush wasnt done, where would a customer stand? in terms of warranty, how can you really know if someone is actually flushing the sysytem unless you stand over them, some may do it without a thought, others may run that machine and do nowt?

K.Flyer

cerastes wrote: »

Whats a good filter make?

Personally I much prefer the Fernox unit, but if space is tight then I would use the Adey unit.

cerastes wrote: »

If a boiler was fitted which had a cert given, but it turned out a flush wasnt done, where would a customer stand? in terms of warranty,

The manufacturer could void the warranty and you would have to go after the installer for the repair.

cerastes wrote: »

how can you really know if someone is actually flushing the sysytem unless you stand over them, some may do it without a thought, others may run that machine and do nowt?

A good question. One way would be to be nosey and watch and ask how it's being done. You would also see the black dirty water being discharged out through the hose. However, occasionally some systems are surprisingly quite clean with very minimal dirt or sludge to clean out.

cerastes

K.Flyer wrote: »

Personally I much prefer the Fernox unit, but if space is tight then I would use the Adey unit.

The manufacturer could void the warranty and you would have to go after the installer for the repair.

A good question. One way would be to be nosey and watch and ask how it's being done. You would also see the black dirty water being discharged out through the hose. However, occasionally some systems are surprisingly quite clean with very minimal dirt or sludge to clean out.

Ok, I thought the Fernox one looked narrower? the Adey one looks like a much wider item but Ive only seent hem online along with some other lesser known ones, I have never seen them compared side by side.

I wouldnt be keen on looking over someones shoulder, although in such an instance Id definitley make upfront enquiries, I suppose you could expect someone to be having to move about the house to shut off valves to redirect the flow through different rads,could be interpreted in a number of ways though, keeping an eye on things, mostly not too good I think, in my experience most people prefer to be left at it, which I can understand too.

Dtp1979

cerastes wrote: »

Ok, I thought the Fernox one looked narrower? the Adey one looks like a much wider item but Ive only seent hem online along with some other lesser known ones, I have never seen them compared side by side.

I wouldnt be keen on looking over someones shoulder, although in such an instance Id definitley make upfront enquiries, I suppose you could expect someone to be having to move about the house to shut off valves to redirect the flow through different rads,could be interpreted in a number of ways though, keeping an eye on things, mostly not too good I think, in my experience most people prefer to be left at it, which I can understand too.

True. But anytime I do a flush and the customer is there I'd make a pint of showing them how dirty the water is by removing one of the large magnets from the machine and clean it off in front of them. That way they can see the amount of crud I'm removing.