Insuring a second car...?

billy few mates

My daughter is about to start driving, she's doing the theory test, going to do the lessons but I'd like to get another car so that she can drive under supervision with me to gain a bit of experience from time to time (along with the lessons) until she passes her test, and then I would transfer the car to her with her own insurance policy.
I already have a car and insurance but mine is automatic and I want her to learn and pass her test in a manual so i don't want to add her to my insurance. My Mrs has a car which would be far too large for a learner driver so we don't want to put her on that policy.

Ideally I'd like to buy a small cheap runabout and use it only as a second car for me to go driving with her but from what I understand if I wanted to insure it in my name I wouldn't be able to use my NCB as it's already in use on my car (which actually I rarely drive).
Is there a way to insure a second car, maybe for limited mileage without getting hammered to insure it..?

gooner99

My brother recently went through the same issue.He was told he could only use his no claims on one car by a few insurers.But he then got a quote from a broker accepting his no claims on 2 cars.So keep ringing around to see if you can get this too.

billy few mates

Do you know what broker...? I'd even consider a limited mileage curfew if it helped...

BMJD

I looked into this a few years ago, at that time both Axa and AIG would mirror my NCB on a second car. I was with AIG via a broker at the time but the second car was considered a high performance model so they wouldn't accept it. Axa would have insured it but only if the first policy was with them as well (i.e. they would only mirror my NCB if I had both cars insured with them), it was 9 months from renewal time so I knocked that idea on the head.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Do insurance companies not start to get very suspicious about fronting if you have two policies with them and on one of the policies there is an obviously inexperienced driver? I my own policy on my own car with 6 years NCB. the gf just started driving and got herself a little car. I insured myself on that and named her. I din't even try to use my NCB and deliberately used a different insurance company to stop them becoming suspicious.

Note; I do not want a lecture on fronting of insurance is bad.

9935452

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Do insurance companies not start to get very suspicious about fronting if you have two policies with them and on one of the policies there is an obviously inexperienced driver? I my own policy on my own car with 6 years NCB. the gf just started driving and got herself a little car. I insured myself on that and named her. I din't even try to use my NCB and deliberately used a different insurance company to stop them becoming suspicious.

Note; I do not want a lecture on fronting of insurance is bad.

It would look a bit obvious to them that this would be fronting. especially if this car was a cheap runaround like a micra or yaris .
As other lads are saying for an insurance company to mirror a ncb they want both policies so it is even more obvious to them

billy few mates

I'm not trying to do anything underhand here, I already have a car I want to get another so I can let her get some experience behind the wheel and practise for her test, I won't be commuting or anything just taking it out for an hour or so every couple of days so she can practise the test then once she passes, transfer the whole lot to her name, ownership and new policy and then I'm finished with it. For my own normal driving I prefer my automatic, I don't mind paying for it I just don't want to pay more than I have to.

mik_da_man

You should be fine doing what you want to.
Contact a broker for AIG, I got it sorted that way and had the two policies with different insurers.

stefanovich

billy few mates wrote: »

I'm not trying to do anything underhand here, I already have a car I want to get another so I can let her get some experience behind the wheel and practise for her test, I won't be commuting or anything just taking it out for an hour or so every couple of days so she can practise the test then once she passes, transfer the whole lot to her name, ownership and new policy and then I'm finished with it. For my own normal driving I prefer my automatic, I don't mind paying for it I just don't want to pay more than I have to.

What you've described is the exact definition of fronting. Not sure if insurance companies have refused to pay out in this country though.

How about putting the insurance in her name and putting yourself down as a named driver. This should bring down her premium considerably.

Titzon Toast

I'd like to chime in here if possible, I'm hoping someone can clear this up for me.
I got my GF a first time insurance quote of €1,900 on a 1.6 Focus. I rang my own insurance company and they told me that they would in fact reduce the cost of my own policy if I named my spouse on it!
If I was to buy myself a commercial car-van or a converted estate car for work purposes, would my NCB work towards towards that vehicle too or would it be like I was starting out fresh with zero NCB?
I'm self employed btw.

slimjimmc

Titzon Toast wrote: »

I'd like to chime in here if possible, I'm hoping someone can clear this up for me.
I got my GF a first time insurance quote of €1,900 on a 1.6 Focus. I rang my own insurance company and they told me that they would in fact reduce the cost of my own policy if I named my spouse on it!
If I was to buy myself a commercial car-van or a converted estate car for work purposes, would my NCB work towards towards that vehicle too or would it be like I was starting out fresh with zero NCB?
I'm self employed btw.

That's up to the insurer but many don't mirror NCBs on a second vehicle.
Also a GF is not the same as a spouse so you need to make your status clear to them. You might still get a discount but better not to give them cause to dispute cover in event of a claim.

BailMeOut

A few years ago I was able to insure a 2nd car using my other car's NCB with Setanta. They were the only company I could find that would do this and after a year was able to shop around as had NCBs on both.

antodeco

I've 3 separate cars insured. You can only claim an NCB on one, but if anything happens on either you'll lose it!

mik_da_man

antodeco wrote: »

I've 3 separate cars insured. You can only claim an NCB on one, but if anything happens on either you'll lose it!

Not always true, I have two cars, two separate NCB's.
One is 5 years, the other 10

If I have a claim on one car I must declare it on the other, but they are separate.

billy few mates

stefanovich wrote: »

What you've described is the exact definition of fronting. Not sure if insurance companies have refused to pay out in this country though.

How about putting the insurance in her name and putting yourself down as a named driver. This should bring down her premium considerably.

She will only have a learner permit, I didn't think she would be able to insure a car with just a learner permit...?

Stheno

billy few mates wrote: »

She will only have a learner permit, I didn't think she would be able to insure a car with just a learner permit...?

She would. It would be expensive but insuring a second car as you are suggesting will potentially not be much cheaper as the insurance company will apply loading on her being a named driver

Duiske

mik_da_man wrote: »

Not always true, I have two cars, two separate NCB's.
One is 5 years, the other 10

If I have a claim on one car I must declare it on the other, but they are separate.

If you're with two separate insurance companies, you need to make sure you have both NCB's properly protected. Insurance companies have Dual Indemnity Agreements in place which mean that in the case of a claim by someone with two policies, both companies share liability. Basically, a claim for an accident in either car could result in you losing your NCB on both policies.

lollsangel

Either axa or aviva have this safe start insurance...I think it might be what you're looking for, geared towards new drivers.

mik_da_man

Duiske wrote: »

If you're with two separate insurance companies, you need to make sure you have both NCB's properly protected. Insurance companies have Dual Indemnity Agreements in place which mean that in the case of a claim by someone with two policies, both companies share liability. Basically, a claim for an accident in either car could result in you losing your NCB on both policies.

I have both fully protected all right.
Thankfully I haven't ha to make a claim on either, but I would hope that it wouldn't knock the NCB off one if I claimed on the other..

9935452

stefanovich wrote: »

What you've described is the exact definition of fronting. Not sure if insurance companies have refused to pay out in this country though.

How about putting the insurance in her name and putting yourself down as a named driver. This should bring down her premium considerably.

I agree completely. Its only a matter of time until the insurance company deny a claim for this or come after the policy holder for the cost of a claim.

The op will have no bother getting a new policy and insuring him and his daughter on the car. With a bit of looking around will probably get his no claims mirrored . Any insurance company will take his money but what good is the policy if there are question marks over it in the event of a claim.

My best bet is for the op or his wife take their car off the road for 6months or a year and buy a smaller more suitable car and name the daughter on the insurance.
Out of curiosity what car does your wife drive , it could be suitable . I learned to drive in a 1.9tdi passat and didnt find it too big

CianRyan

billy few mates wrote: »

She will only have a learner permit, I didn't think she would be able to insure a car with just a learner permit...?

I insured my old 1.4 Almera on a learners permit and mate of mine was insured for about 5 years on a learner permit.
She should have no problem getting insured, my first time wasn't even bad, €1200 for a 21yo male in Tallaght on a 1.4, I was delighted!

Full now and I'm down to €725.


Also about fronting, why would you pay to be a named driver on a policy if it was illegal to drive the car, the whole idea of fronting being somehow illegal has never made sense to me.
Myself and my dad shares a car for about 2 years when I couldn't afford one of my own, went through plenty of check points, been breathalyser and there was never any bother with me driving it. Not during the day, not at 4am driving out of the mountains.
"It this your car?"
"No, it's my dad's. I'm a named driver on the policy."
"That's grand, can I see your licence please..."


There is literally nothing wrong with driving a car that you are s named driver on. It is 100% legal.

slimjimmc

CianRyan wrote: »

There is literally nothing wrong with driving a car that you are s named driver on. It is 100% legal.

Unless, of course, that insurance was obtained by deception, e.g. the policy holder claiming to be the main driver but in reality is not.

billy few mates

But I will effectively be in charge of the vehicle whenever it is out on the road, she won't be driving it without me sitting beside her until she passes her test.
The Mrs has a Qashai which would be too big for her to drive.

Stheno

billy few mates wrote: »

But I will effectively be in charge of the vehicle whenever it is out on the road, she won't be driving it without me sitting beside her until she passes her test.
The Mrs has a Qashai which would be too big for her to drive.

You won't she will be the main driver.

A qashqai is not a big car lol

CianRyan

slimjimmc wrote: »

Unless, of course, that insurance was obtained by deception, e.g. the policy holder claiming to be the main driver but in reality is not.

And how is anyone going to say who put more miles up on the car after an accident?
If the driver was named on the policy, the insurance legally has to pay out, as per the contract.

lollsangel

Stheno wrote: »

You won't she will be the main driver.

A qashqai is not a big car lol

A quashai however is considered a high performance vehicle by certain companies and she may not get insurance in it

CianRyan

lollsangel wrote: »

A quashai however is considered a high performance vehicle by certain companies and she may not get insurance in it

Hahahahaha, what?

Damien360

CianRyan wrote: »

Hahahahaha, what?

Probably because it has a "big" 1.6

CianRyan

Damien360 wrote: »

Probably because it has a "big" 1.6

Oh I've heard that when calling around for my MX5. At least that's designed as a sports car. Haha

pablo128

lollsangel wrote: »

A quashai however is considered a high performance vehicle by certain companies and she may not get insurance in it

My Avensis 2.0 must be a supercar so. :pac:

The high driving position of the Quasqai would be a help to a learner, not a hindrance.

billy few mates

I don't know, I just think it might be a little large for a learner driver....

lollsangel

CianRyan wrote: »

Hahahahaha, what?

Seriously! A friend of mine was told that her insurance company (first Ireland I think) would not insure her 18 year old permit holder son as it was a high performance vehicle, how a 1.5 is I don't know.

Titzon Toast

slimjimmc wrote: »

That's up to the insurer but many don't mirror NCBs on a second vehicle.
Also a GF is not the same as a spouse so you need to make your status clear to them. You might still get a discount but better not to give them cause to dispute cover in event of a claim.

According to them it is the same, they were the ones that made the offer to lower my insurance quote if I put her on it.

pablo128

pablo128 wrote: »

My Avensis 2.0 must be a supercar so. :pac:

The high driving position of the Quasqai would be a help to a learner, not a hindrance.

Rear visibility is poor though. Not best for a learner imv.

billy few mates

This thing has the all round camera system and automatic parking feature, I'd rather she started off with something more basic...

pablo128

billy few mates wrote: »

This thing has the all round camera system and automatic parking feature, I'd rather she started off with something more basic...

Can't you turn those features off, though?

I have a feeling you don't want her driving it in case she wrecks it.;)

zl1whqvjs75cdy

pablo128 wrote: »

Can't you turn those features off, though?

I have a feeling you don't want her driving it in case she wrecks it.;)

Its hideous anyway, she couldn't make it look much worse.