School says no LC music class next year. Any options.???

papac

My daughter is just finishing TY and has been informed that Music will not be available as a LC subject next year.
She is an amazing musician and wants to do a music degree so shes pretty upset.
Afaik they are citing lack of numbers/timetabling difficuties. Music was always offered as a subject and a straw poll indicates that more people want to take it as a subject (at least 12) than in the previous two years.

My current plan is to get a petition signed by students interested in music and their parents and go to see the head teacher.

I suppose my question is- If the school flat out refuses to change their minds do I have any other recourse??.(besides private tuition:).)

All input appreciated.

aunt aggie

Not a music teacher. For the school, it's most likely a lack of resources which means they can no longer provide music classes. The hours going to a subject that doesn't seem to be in demand can be put to better use reducing class sizes in another subject where there may be too much demand or not enough teachers.

I know a school that was in a similar position. They had never offered music but had a very musical TY class. There was a qualified music teacher on staff and management agreed to allow this teacher and students to use classrooms after school for LC music lessons. I think the lessons were two hours a week and students paid towards lessons themselves. Very minimal cost as there were close to ten students. It might not be ideal as it meant many of them had 8 subjects at leaving cert but they were really committed to the subject!

It also showed the school that there was demand for the subject. Just looking at their website, they now offer Music at Leaving Cert.

spurious

Cuts to staff over the years have resulted in subjects being dropped in schools. Until the cuts are reversed, I think your only option is for her to take grinds and sit the subject outside school.

It is possible if the Music teacher is still in the school, he/she might agree to take a privately paid set of extra classes after work, though of course they are under no obligation to do so.

Which subject would you suggest the school cut instead of Music? Unfortunately that's what it boils down to.

km79

as others have said approach school / teacher and see if class privately paid outside of school is an option.
and then the next time a politician knocks on your door tell them about the effect of constant education cuts mean for your daughter and what they plan on doing about them!

papac

Thanks for the replies.

I am totally aware that stretched resources are at the heart of this and I don't blame the school one bit.( I never complain about paying my taxes and believe strongly in increasing education spending.)

I had thought of trying to arrange something privately with one of the two music teachers in the school-so I'm glad to hear of a precedent for this.

I'm waiting for the principal to call me back atm so I'll see how it goes from there.

evolving_doors

Here’s a few aspects to strengthen your case:

1. Letting a subject die for the first time is a pretty serious thing I think. If it’s always been there then it certainly goes against the tradition of the school. Once it’s gone it’s gone (unless the school does it based on demand every year i.e. some years they do it some they don’t).

2. In terms of the tradition too… dig out the school ethos. I’ve just taken one randomly from the net:
“….each student is respected as a unique human being, where staff and students are impressed with an awareness of human dignity and where success in all aspects of life is seen as a highly desired and a highly promoted goal.”


Even in terms of the above example there are mentions of educational diversity. (Which students get in terms of the performing arts). i.e. “unique human being” and “success in all aspects of life”.

So, does getting rid of the subject go against the ethos. (This might carry a good deal of weight if it’s a girls’ secondary school run by a religious order. Get some nuns involved! Usually every convent has a musical nun).

3. Look at the statistics for the awarding of honours in the leaving cert. Compare music to other subjects, it has a pretty high allocation of A’s and B’s ( in spite of the bell curve). So I find the students who do music know from the get-go that it’s a good subject to get high points with a bit of effort. Compare it to the stats in art maybe! (Sorry art teachers!)

4. A lot of the ‘academically’ weaker students have a chance to do well as they might be strong performers which can be 50% of the final exam grade.

5. Petition from students/parents is good too. If students took it at J.Cert then there should be a certain expectation that it would be run at L.cert.

The timetables for next year aren’t written in stone yet so you have time. I don’t think it should be put upon parents to justify “well if we don’t cut this subject then what subject will we cut?”. That simply promotes a hierarchy of subjects (some are more important than others) I think it must be up to the Principal to state “why is music being cut” rather than inferring that it’s the ‘obvious choice’.
Have a look at the unions dispute with regard to the new junior cert, HERE

The two unions identified the following issues of key importance:
· Parity of treatment of subjects;

Why not cut back on religion, especially if it’s not an examinable subject for the leaving cert in your school? (For example!)

Getting a teacher to do it on their own time is possible but it would be a big commitment from any teacher on top of a full timetable. From my own experience I was at a big disadvantage from not having the subject in my school and then studying it in university. So whatever happens have a look outside the school, a lot of music schools do run evening classes and even if they don't you could get a list of 5th and 6th years who would take it up if they got a teacher in.

TheDriver

Careful with petitions - whenever I get them about subjects, I ask each person if they want to then pick the subject. I find very little will actually pick it but just support the idea.

RE wont be cut back because of ethos in most schools.

rainbowtrout

There's a good few posts there suggesting that OP should push for music to be put on as there is definitely a demand.

OP has stated that the school has said there is a lack of demand and there is a timetabling difficulty.

These two statements are not the complete opposite of each other.

In my school we ask students to list 5 subjects in order of preference in the hope that they get four once the subjects are put into blocks.

12 students may currently be saying they will choose music, but throw it into a block opposite, say biology, and you might find that now the number who pick it is four. Something similar to this could actually be the reason why it is not being offered.

evolving_doors

rainbowtrout wrote: »

There's a good few posts there suggesting that OP should push for music to be put on as there is definitely a demand.

OP has stated that the school has said there is a lack of demand and there is a timetabling difficulty.

These two statements are not the complete opposite of each other.

In my school we ask students to list 5 subjects in order of preference in the hope that they get four once the subjects are put into blocks.

12 students may currently be saying they will choose music, but throw it into a block opposite, say biology, and you might find that now the number who pick it is four. Something similar to this could actually be the reason why it is not being offered.

That's a good point alright. Maybe the devil's in the detail (my conspiracy hat is now on).

"Afaik they are citing lack of numbers/timetabling difficuties. Music was always offered as a subject and a straw poll indicates that more people want to take it as a subject (at least 12) than in the previous two years. "

Was there a change in the subject grouping that it was typically against OP?
That's a hard one to answer without knowing what it was against in the past but it might be worth asking some students. There's usually the odd few students who are fairly clued in from older siblings as to what the options typically were for LC. Although going down the route of haggling over a timetable is nigh on impossible given all the variables.

Still though, it might be worth making a case in advance as a teacher might decide to up sticks to somewhere else or retire and the timetable might have to be revisited again!

But as the other posters have said you would want to be fairly sure that the other commit.

Only options are:
Outside school hours in school!
music school
grind schools sometimes do evening classes.
1 to 1 grind

In the past i've heard of a few schools allow neighboring students in for certain subjects (girls go to boys school for physics, boys go to girls for music etc). And again it would be timetable dependent. I don't know if anyone does that nowadays though.

Nadser

I did music externally through the College of Music many years ago for both my intermediate and leaving certificate. For the Inter I sat the exam in another school. For the Leaving, there were two of us so we sat the theory part in my own school and did the aural and practicals elsewhere. Very few musicians I know did it through school. I already had grade 8 theory prior to the inter so it was a fairly handy subject. Look into your local music college or neighbourhood private teachers. My friend's mother used to take teach peoplein her sitting room! (She is a qualified piano teacher).

RH149

Music is offered in our school but its often in the option group with Business and Biology so numbers taking it are quite low but enough to make a class viable......come exam time and theres then quite a large number down for the Music practicals so I presume they are doing it as an extra subject outside school. I imagine if a student is very musical its not as much of a burden doing it as an extra subject as some other subjects might be but with the extra time needed for practising a musical instrument on top of all the theory involved it would take a lot of dedication on the part of the student.

evolving_doors

6pieces grade 5 standard is for the practical. Many students do grade exams anyway.
So thats 50% of exam done... already into hons. grade points wise if you make an effort for the written exams.