Housemates and bills

Georgie13

I appear to have offended my housemates and now I feel really guilty and upset.... but the thing is I really dont think I'm in the wrong, it's just I'm being made to feel like I am. There's five of us living in a flat; me and my boyfriend, another couple, and a guy who is a good friend of ours. Now even though there's five people living here, only two of us are looking after all the bills. My boyfriend and I are the ones with our names on the gas, electric, water and broadband bills and we're the ones who make all the payments and then ask everyone else to pay us back. Not everyone pays us back all the time though. The other girl pays us back nearly all the time, her boyfriend pays us back most of the time, and the other guy (who is supposed to be our friend) never pays us back. So that's enough of a problem in itself, but that's not even what I'm stressing about right now.

We got the council tax bill through for the coming year recently, and we still have some to pay the council from last year as well. When the bill came I left it out on the coffee table so that everyone could read it, and I hoped that someone would take it upon themselves to sort it out. No such luck, they all seemed to ignore it. So today, we got a letter saying if we don't pay the first installment in 7 days then the entire amount for the next year becomes due and they can take us to court yada yada. I am adamant that my boyfriend and I are not going to take responsibility for yet another bill so I stuck all the info up on the fridge with a note that basically just asked could somebody please sort this out as the two of us just can't afford to be looking after this on top of all the other bills.

I don't think I was out of line to do this.... I mean I'm just asking if one other person could take responsibility for just ONE bill, but the other couple have reacted a bit strangely. The guy sent us a message soon after he got home saying he paid the installment and could everyone pay him back, which is grand. (Though he didnt mention any arrangements for the bit we owe from last year) But then after the girl came home I saw she had stuck another letter to the fridge detailing the council tax support she's getting, which like, I don't really get the point of her showing me that? We still have to pay the bills.... even if she's getting support for her bit?.... and she added some little responses to my note before sticking it back on the fridge. She circled the bit where I pointed out that we pay everything else and wrote something like: If you want me to do it then give me the details! and I ALWAYS pay you back, if I haven't JUST ASK ME and I will!

So it seems like she's pretty pissed off... but the stuff she's written doesn't even make sense, I didn't say that she doesn't pay us back (though there have been a couple of times she hasn't) I just said that we don't always get everything back from everyone and we can't afford to take this on for another bill.(And the bit about her taking over the other bills if we ask her.... like way back in the beginning we asked her to look after the water bill, she said yes but then didn't do anything about it and ignored all the letters until me and my boyfriend were like right we just need to do this cause it's mounting up, so we called the water suppliers and worked out a payment plan to pay back all the months she'd been doing nothing about it. So I think it's a bit rich of her to now say she'd handle the bills if we just gave her the details. It's like she's forgotten about that whole thing.) The bit about if she hasn't paid something just ask her.... I mean we do ask them, we send them all a message when we pay something asking for the exact amount. I feel like we shouldn't have to ask numerous times for our money back, which is kind of what she's implying, like its our fault for not asking enough times if they don't pay us back. And anyway, it's not even her that's the worst one, so I don't know why she assumes I was saying something bad about her? It's her boyfriend who doesn't pay us back very often, and the other guy who doesn't pay us back at all.

Now I just feel really bad about the whole thing, then get angry that I'm being made to feel bad... I didn't mean for my note to sound bitchy, but it seems like it's been taken that way and now I don't know what to do!

MissFlitworth

Firstly, every time you feel badly about this remind yourself that your housemates are extracting the absolute p*ss here. 2 of them essentially have decided that they don't need to contribute to bills.

Secondly, notes are poisonous in a houseshare. They get people's backs up so badly. You need to talk to people directly, have a house meeting or waylay everyone some night you're all around. Be absolutely blunt about the fact that people aren't paying their way. Grab your wan directly and say 'I didn't say that you don't pay your share, I just need someone else to take this bill on as I can't have another large amount coming from my account every month. By the way, your boyfriend often stiffs us on the bills, that doesn't help'. Look at anything that you have for the house that you don't necessarily need but that people will miss (broadband for example) and threaten to cancel it and then DO cancel it if people don't pay their share.

Sometimes people are just spongers though and nothing you do or say will make them behave differently. When you confront them about their sponger nature they react by hitting out at you because they've got their leg caught in the trap of having been called out on their bull and they're also hoping to make you shut up by making you feel like a villain.

If you can't shame them into being decent housemates by being honest with them and blunt with them and not giving them a rock to hide under or fruitlessly hinting at them by leaving bills lying around the place and hoping they'll do the honorable you might have to consider finding a place for yourselves without them.

retro:electro

Stop writing stupid passive aggressive notes on the fridge and have an open and frank conversation about it.

Oryx

Talk to them. Youre being taken for a mug because you are not assertive enough. This does not mean being angry but stating what you need calmly. At the moment your housemates are treating you like the parents of the house, the ones who sort everything. And you are letting them. Sit down with them and write down a clear division of finances. Let them know what they are responsible for. It does not sound like you have done this to date.

kylith

And don't be afraid to say "The gas bill is X amount per person, due by Friday" and to chase up people who haven't paid up. It's sounds like you're paying the bill and then expecting people to come offer the money, a lot of people won't do that.

Pawwed Rig

Get each person to put a bill in their own name (non negotiable starting point) and then offset against each other. If something gets cut off then only 1 person is to blame.

Neyite

She's taking the piss. She knows that she hasn't paid her full share in previous bills -and that's why she's gone on the defensive.

I think a house meeting is a good idea. Go in, armed with evidence of who paid what on previous bills - and who didn't pay, with the amounts. Tot up how much extra you and your boyfriend have put in above and beyond your share.
Maybe say you are not interested in being paid back, but that it simply cant go on like this, and that you want it to change. The ones that do pay in full in a timely manner might support you when they realise what is going on with the other non-payers.

Pawwed Rig's suggestion of every person assuming a bill in their name is an excellent one and forces everyone to take some responsibility and stop treating you like Bank of Mammy and Daddy.

I've found that those who were slow to pay bills were usually the ones with the most disposable income. I had a nightmare flatmate who would come home on the day rent was due laden down with BT bags of clothes, pricey make-up and designer hair products, and baldly tell us that she was too broke to pay the rent. We had to have a strong word with her when she eventually progressed to not only taking her rent back out of the envelope left on the mantel for the landlord, but taking some of our share out too. She got the hump and sulked for a bit, but with the rest of us in agreement, she was told to lump it or leave.

Lollipops23

I live with 8 other people, so house meetings aren't usually possible ( we all work different shifts). We use a fb chat thread for stuff like letting each other know when a bill is due. Handy because you can see when people have seen the message etc.

Your housemate is being a brat- the bill is due when it's due, and you two aren't out of line in not wanting yet another giant bill coming out of your account.

biZrb

I also manage the bills for our houseshare and it can be a nightmare, so I feel your pain OP.
One housemate didn't pay his bills for ages so I changed the wi-fi password, he was fairly quick in paying after that.

As others have said I think face to face meeting is the best way forward, just have a open chat about the bills and the situation it puts you in every month.

I think you need to come up with a better system for paying bills in the future. How about setting up a joint account and have people a fixed amount into that every month and pay the bills from that. It must be awful paying out of your own money all the time.

LegacyUser

You are being taken for an absolute ride, why are you not following up others for their share of the bills. Yes it might be too much hassle but you need to keep on their backs otherwise you are paying for them to live there.
Post-it notes, letters and notes to each other DON'T WORK, as another poster said they get peoples backs up.

You need to call a meeting and have a face to face chat with everybody, joint account sounds like a good idea for bills but then who takes that on and can you trust them with money? I think everyone having a bill in each of their names sounds like a good idea.
If they continue to treat you like a mug then maybe yourself and your bf need to move out and find somewhere else to live.

Est28

Maybe I'm getting the wrong idea here, I really can't tell from your post what the situation is but....

Who owns the house? Are YOU renting and subletting? Or do you own it? Or how is it that they are not on the hook for anything? This makes zero sense from a legal standpoint. Any landlord would expect to have this. So either the landlord is up to something dodgy here or you are, which makes this all nonsnesical anyway.

Now... as a tenant, when you move in you'll be told what YOU are expected to pay and what the landlord is expected to pay.
You've come along and just dumped a bill on them and expected someone to randomly pick it up? Nope Nope Nope. Get a grip. If it wasn't outlined in their rental agreement that they pay the council tax, then they do not.

Next point. Do you actually talk to these people? Like, just before the start of the month, do you remind them the rent is due?
If the electricity bill comes in, do you go tell them what their share is and when it's due?
Because it just comes across from your post that you're not doing that, you're actually just saying nothing and expecting them to come forward? And no prior agreement about it is in place??? You're not making any sense.

Lastly, the thing about the notes and all that. This gets on everyone's goat in a houseshare so stop it.
The girls reply was actually fair. If she owes you for a bill, tell her what she owes you. But it sounds like you're expecting her to just come to you offering money and then you leave passive agressive notes if they don't?

This whole things sounds like it's on you by how it's run.
From the perspective of the house as a whole, I'm baffled what the setup is here anyway, it doesn't sound above board so don't expect easy runnings there.

MissFlitworth

I could be wrong Est28 but I think the OP might live in the UK, in which case tenants are absolutely responsible for council tax and it wouldn't be a surprise to them that they had to pay it.

Redberry

Oh you definitely shouldn't be feeling bad! You & your boyfriend sound like great housemates & they are taking advantage.
Let her throw a strop. You've done nothing wrong at all!

Est28

MissFlitworth wrote: »

I could be wrong Est28 but I think the OP might live in the UK, in which case tenants are absolutely responsible for council tax and it wouldn't be a surprise to them that they had to pay it.

I know that but what's not adding up here is how the whole situation in the house works.

If the tax is due, shouldn't it be written into whatever lease or agreement they have that each tenant will be paying an equal share of it? The OP just dropped it there and expected one person to pick up the whole bill?

On the other bills, fair enough if OP is paying them, but again, I have to ask WHY? None of this adds up and sounds very shady as to how the leasing agreement is made between all people living there if none of this is in print and various people are just taking some bills and expecting others to foot the others whenever they might show up.

None of this really makes sense to me. Individual bills aside, the problem is the whole rental situation here sounds very shady and under the table so no wonders really that there are now issues.

On the tax... I mean... yes the tenant is expect to pay it. But who's name is on the house? Is everyone? Or is it OP who owns it? In which case it HAS to be documented in the lease to the other tenants. Or are they subletting and not telling the landlord? In which case, the OP is on the hook for it... I'm just wondering if this is the case because they seem to take ownership of the other bills!?! But if no agreement was made with the new tenants, they aren't exactly on the hook to just pick up a bill whenever OP decides to drop one of them with no agreement in place.

As I said... it's not really about one individual bill here. There seems to be no actual rental agreement in place with all tenants, thus you're asking for all sorts of trouble.

Faith

Est28 wrote: »

I know that but what's not adding up here is how the whole situation in the house works.

If the tax is due, shouldn't it be written into whatever lease or agreement they have that each tenant will be paying an equal share of it? The OP just dropped it there and expected one person to pick up the whole bill?

On the other bills, fair enough if OP is paying them, but again, I have to ask WHY? None of this adds up and sounds very shady as to how the leasing agreement is made between all people living there if none of this is in print and various people are just taking some bills and expecting others to foot the others whenever they might show up.

Have you ever lived away from your parents' house? I've never, ever rented a place where bills were were written into the lease, other than in the case of "Rent includes X, Y, and Z" when it's covered by the landlord. In typical house shares, there's no real rhyme or reason as to who pays the bills. Everyone chips in, but it comes out of whoever's account (usually whoever is foolish enough to agree).

What most likely happened was, when the OP moved in, they were asked or volunteered to put certain bills in their name, with the understanding that everyone else would pay their share when it's due. Standard practice. Others haven't been contributing though, and because the OP hasn't chased them on this, she and her partner are now out of pocket. To avoid this situation getting worse, when the council tax bill came in, the OP and her boyfriend asked someone else to take responsibility for it. That's all.

Est28

Faith wrote: »

Have you ever lived away from your parents' house? I've never, ever rented a place where bills were were written into the lease, other than in the case of "Rent includes X, Y, and Z" when it's covered by the landlord. In typical house shares, there's no real rhyme or reason as to who pays the bills. Everyone chips in, but it comes out of whoever's account (usually whoever is foolish enough to agree).

Now there's no need for that. Yes, I live outside my parents home for a long time :rolleyes:
Very valiant of you to be the moral police on this one while resorting to childish name calling.

If we're talking electricity bill and it's being split then a firm agreement is made up front between tenants when they move in. The OP is not complaining of them not living up to an agreements, she's complaining hat there was not agreement yet she seems to expect them to just throw money at her.

If we are talking TAXES and, heck, even with electricity, water, bins, etc, etc, etc... then yes, EVERYTHING will be in the lease as to who is responsible for all of those... landlord or tenants.
As to how it's split, this is at the disgression of the landlord, I've lived places where it was firmly written into the lease and also places where it was stated just that the tennants would pay thus an agreement and schedule of bill payments was worked out among them.

Bottom line is the OP had no agreement in place, thus the other tenants were not expected to contribute more than they do up front. THIS is what I found shady about how the whole thing was set up but seems OP has dropped out of the conversation.

Also, please... nit picking pieces of someone's post just to argue for arguments sake is wasting all of our time.

Neyite

Mod:

Back on track with advice to the OP please?

Stavro Mueller

OP, the only way to resolve this is to have a house meeting. The only notes anyone should ever leave for other people in a house share are ones that go along the lines of "help yourself to the rest of the cake that's in the fridge".

Do you have any records kept of what everyone has and hasn't paid? When I was house sharing the arrangement was that any shared bills that came in got pinned up to a notice board. When any of us paid our share, it'd be written onto the bill itself e.g. Stavro paid €50. Or if it was a big bill like the oil one, some people would pay it in instalments and write down what they had handed over. That way there were never any disputes or arguments over people paying up.

If you have any records at all of what people have paid, that would be a good start. You need to agree with the others what they have paid and what is left to pay. It would also be helpful to establish rules about when it is reasonable to pay bills on time. It's awful that you're having to chase grown adults in this fashion but they've been taking the p!ss until now.

Faith

Est28 wrote: »

Now there's no need for that. Yes, I live outside my parents home for a long time :rolleyes:
Very valiant of you to be the moral police on this one while resorting to childish name calling.

Wow, apologies if you read some kind of insult in my post. There was none intended; I just can't understand how you've never encountered a situation like the OP describes before if you've lived away from home. Guess you've been exceptionally lucky!

OP, as has been said, unfortunately you do need to discuss this directly with your housemates. You should never have let them get away with no paying their share because it creates these awkward situations down the line. I suggest you all sit down and hit reset on bills. Make a firm agreement about what bills there are, when they're due, when and how everyone is expected to pay. You'll have to be firm and enforce payment from now on though.

Est28

Faith wrote: »

I just can't understand how you've never encountered a situation like the OP describes before if you've lived away from home. Guess you've been exceptionally lucky!.

Not lucky, just responsible. Agreements with landlords are all agreed upon and put in writing in the lease. All agreements in housemates may be the same or a verbal agreement is made as to EXACTLY who owes what and how it breaks down.

I actually can't believe someone WOULDN'T do this.

The only places I've encountered these sort of situations is where someone is trying to pull a fast one, like subletting extra rooms without the landlord being informed of the new tenants or against the rental agreement. Or something similar... in which case, the person doing it really has no comeback if they are doing things under the table.

As noted, the OP hasn't been answering these questions so I'm feeling she knows she hasn't got a leg to stand on here.

You can't move someone in, not inform them of certain financial responsibilities they are expected to cover and then spring it on them.

This is VERY different from the usual posts about housemates not paying the AGREED upon bills or rent, in which case, the OP would be fully in the right.

MissFlitworth

Est28 wrote: »

Not lucky, just responsible. Agreements with landlords are all agreed upon and put in writing in the lease. All agreements in housemates may be the same or a verbal agreement is made as to EXACTLY who owes what and how it breaks down.

I actually can't believe someone WOULDN'T do this.

I lived in houseshares for nearly 10 years and I've never had a written agreement with my housemates as to what bills we pay. I vaguely recall my lease specifying that we were responsible for the utilities. Unless someone was getting in a utility for their particular use and were going to pay the lions share of it (for example needing high speed internet for work back when that was expensive) we *never* sat down and talked about who owed what because the general understanding I have come across in a house share is that all bills are divided by the number of people living there. Especially in the case where people are renting a room rather than sharing the lease because who lives there tends to be fluid. I genuinely don't get any impression of shadiness from the OP. Just common or garden sponging housemates.

And her housemate clearly knows they're responsible for council tax because they're getting support for their share

But then after the girl came home I saw she had stuck another letter to the fridge detailing the council tax support she's getting,

CaraMay

Put up a notice board somewhere very visible. Write each persons initials and the amount due per person on the bill and tick off each name as they pay. That way they will be acutely aware when they haven't paid.

You should respond to this girl and list the bills she hasn't paid. She is taking you for mugs.