New boyfriend's gambling

LegacyUser

Stayed over in new boyfriend's apt & noticed bank statements in the kitchen. I wasn't being nosy, they were left out in the open. Anyway there's have a huge amount of gambling transactions including a lot of small wins.

Normally I'd walk I don't want to date someone with a gambling addiction but he seems to be breaking even at worst. Not enough seen to get the full picture. Any thoughts?

Username here

What happens if he is no longer breaking even, and gambles bigger, harder, faster? He may not do that, of course - he might just say "ok, stop - enough is enough" - but do you want to take that chance?

Obviously I don't know if he's actually addicted or not, but if your gut/first instinct is to walk, maybe you should trust it. Would you really want to start a potential relationship by compromising on something like this?

Stavro Mueller

It'd bother me too because he is doing so much of it. As you well know, gambling can become an addiction and you'd have to worry if this is the start of the slippery slope. Even the people who end up losing their houses and running up crazy debts started small. I remember reading an interview with a guy who ran into serious problems and he said he just had this compulsion to keep betting on horses even though he hadn't got a clue what it was he was betting on.

Longer term, having bank statements like that would ruin your chances of applying for a mortgage.

ceadaoin.

I don't know, not everyone who gambles becomes addicted, most people don't. If he isn't getting into debt or gambling money he needs for rent or other necessities then I don't see the issue. The fact that he is withdrawing the winnings is a good sign. If he did have a problem he would gamble the winnings too in the hopes of a big payout.

Maybe bring up gambling in coversation and see what he says. If he is open about it then there probably isn't anything to worry about. If he claims he doesn't gamble then maybe be worried. Probably best not to mention you were reading his bank statements though.

giggle84

Run. A. Mile.


My friend's ex was a casual gambler.. til suddenly it wasn't casual anymore. If he has a gambling problem he will not be honest with you about it, gambling addicts are first class liars.

And as a previous poster said.. he won't have a hope of getting a mortgage with gambling transactions on his statements.

Blue Iris

Gamblers are notorious for hiding the level of their gambling from everyone around them. In a way you were lucky that you stumbled across the statements. The amount of transactions would be what would worry me. It's an addiction that can take hold suddenly and quickly and it can take major loss for them to even begin to see that they have a problem. On balance, if it were me, I wouldn't want to take the risk with him.

LegacyUser

Thanks everyone. I thought people might say I was over reacting given he seemed not to be losing money. I don't know what dates the statement was from, didn't notice, but kind of thought someone would excuse it re Cheltenham or the Masters or something. The amounts also bother me, min €100 each time and often more and at least 15 times on one statement page and more than one betting company.

It's horrible because everything else has been going very well. Kind of wish I didn't see it but can't ignore it I guess.

Stavro Mueller

I'd take no notice of what he's winning. Anyone can get lucky and do well for a while. Sooner or later though, it always turns back in favour of the bookies. What you've described here is a far cry from someone who places a few bets for the craic. He's gambling an awful lot and if he's prepared to risk three figure sums... A couple of other people rightly pointed out that gamblers are pretty good at lying and trying to cover their tracks. Even if your boyfriend told you what he was winning, you'd never hear about what he's losing.

If you were in a more established relationship you'd probably be advised here to contact Gambler's Anonymous. But seeing as this is a new relationship...do you really want to take all that on board?

Dark Phoenix

I wouldnt ignore it. €100 minimum is huge plus 15 times on one statement is €1500 in a month, thats a problem. The fact that he does it so often and has never mentioned it is also indicative as if it was only something fun he would be open about it.

I once had an ex who seemed to have a small bit of a drug problem, it turned out to be a big problem. Never under estimate what someone in the grips of an addiction will hide from those around them especially those closest to them.

As the statement was left out I;d bring it up and I;d imagine his reaction will tell you a lot

power pants

Any chance that the statement is for a week over an event like cheltenham? Maybe he is not an addict but just went overboard during that time.

Also, you were being nosey. Yes he had the bank statements lying about but you picked them up and scanned through them.

Rekop dog

Nobody here can say if he's an addict or not based on information given but many are over reacting. Plenty of people are able to gamble without letting it get of of hand, and make money from it. His stakes are consistent which is a good sign, wouldn't be overly concerned with the amounts, it's all relative at the end of the day.

robbiezero

He might be an arb'er, as in doing Arbitrage betting. Playing off one bookie against another.

LegacyUser

Thanks for all the replies again...good to get a mix of perspectives.

A friend has suggested that it might just be his gambling account and that most people who gamble run two accounts so as the bank they borrow from isn't aware of their gambling and that maybe thats why it looked so bad. Do people do this?

I don't know. I wish I mentioned it at the time. It's not yet overly serious so I don't know.

Danny2580

Best thing to do is simply ask him about this. There are plenty of horror stories out there, but I can tell you for a fact that not everybody loses in the long term, and not every bettor is a dipso gambler ("the bookie always wins in the end" is a tired old falsehood). It's relatively easy for someone with good mathematical ability and diligence to at least break even through a variety of methods.

That said, more than 95% of punters will lose over time. There are fairly obvious tell tale signs that will show up a problem gambler - google them. It'll be a matter of using your own judgement to figure out what type / what level of betting he is involved in. For me, it'd be a bit silly to run a mile in the opposite direction without discussing it with him first, and figuring out if it's hobby and occasional side earner, or a brewing problem. But I wouldn't take his word for gospel either - if there is any level of compulsiveness there, he'll play it down and / or hide it. Ask him if he keeps profit and loss spreadsheets. A very good sign if he does (even if he has a losing year) because it suggests he treats his betting as an investment. Just my two cents.

Danny2580

Another point. "More than one betting company" would suggest he is employing some sort of method, because he's most likely looking around for the best available odds on a particular outcome. I'd be more worried if every transaction was with one bookmaker. I'd be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt until all the facts are clearer.

LegacyUser

Gambling €100 plus a time, 15 gambles on a bank statement and with more than one online betting company would be ringing alarm bells for me also.

If he is gambling €1500 a month - that is €18000 a year after tax on gambling. The reality is that is not some one who is just having the odd flutter. This points to a serious problem to me.
He must be earning a good wage to do this or is it the case he is chasing the big win.
What happens if you stay with him and in a few years you decide to buy a home?
Gambling on bank statements is not good for getting a mortgage. Also if he is gambling this type of money has he any savings. What happens if he loses his job or is put on a 3 day week?

I know a woman who married a gambler. Even when they were going out he would tell her I have no money to go out on Saturday night. At the time he was living at home, with a good job and his only expense was his car. He never gave her any reason why he was broke and she never asked.

After they got married and had a family he was made redundant. Despite this he was doing some serious gambling. His wife found out after opening a letter from the bank that the mortgage had not been paid for a while. After getting a bank statement she found they were almost broke. She had to get money from her and his parents to pay the mortgage arrears & other bills that were due.

I like to have an odd flutter myself but I only gamble with cash. I allow myself x amount to spend. Yes I enjoy it and some times I win and other times I am not as lucky. A person doing serious gambling will tell you of the horse that came in a 33/1 or the big winner but they won't tell you I spent €300 and came home with €3 on a place bet.

I would advise you to walk away from this man because long term the type of gambling he is doing currently would point to a major problem.

robbiezero

lady2015 wrote: »

Gambling €100 plus a time, 15 gambles on a bank statement and with more than one online betting company would be ringing alarm bells for me also.

If he is gambling €1500 a month - that is €18000 a year after tax on gambling. The reality is that is not some one who is just having the odd flutter. This points to a serious problem to me.
He must be earning a good wage to do this or is it the case he is chasing the big win.
What happens if you stay with him and in a few years you decide to buy a home?
Gambling on bank statements is not good for getting a mortgage. Also if he is gambling this type of money has he any savings. What happens if he loses his job or is put on a 3 day week?

I know a woman who married a gambler. Even when they were going out he would tell her I have no money to go out on Saturday night. At the time he was living at home, with a good job and his only expense was his car. He never gave her any reason why he was broke and she never asked.

After they got married and had a family he was made redundant. Despite this he was doing some serious gambling. His wife found out after opening a letter from the bank that the mortgage had not been paid for a while. After getting a bank statement she found they were almost broke. She had to get money from her and his parents to pay the mortgage arrears & other bills that were due.

I like to have an odd flutter myself but I only gamble with cash. I allow myself x amount to spend. Yes I enjoy it and some times I win and other times I am not as lucky. A person doing serious gambling will tell you of the horse that came in a 33/1 or the big winner but they won't tell you I spent €300 and came home with €3 on a place bet.

I would advise you to walk away from this man because long term the type of gambling he is doing currently would point to a major problem.

You don't have enough information to give this sort of advice. As I said previously he may not even be gambling, he might be arb'ing. Lads I know could bet thousands over a weekend without risking losing a penny of it. They might not win much, but the way they do it, they cannot lose.

Stavro Mueller

I certainly hope this man knows what he's doing because there's many a person who doesn't. I've a friend who worked for a large bookmaking firm when she was a student. She fielded calls from men whispering down the phone or making calls from their bathroom with the taps running. Wives ringing up desperately trying to find out just what their husbands had gambled and trying to stop more money coming out of their bank accounts.

You can shout all you want about this guy knowing what he's doing and go on about systems and methods. Maybe he is treating this like a business and knows when to stop. The only way you can know it's to ask and try not to get blinded by the science of it. For every person who knows what they're doing there are many more bùllshītters and ones who lie through their teeth.

HelgaWard

Just another point, probably not relevant now but in the future if ye were ever to look for a mortgage, the bank would not look favorably at lots of betting transactions on his statements. It would make getting a mortgage very difficult.

robbiezero

HelgaWard wrote: »

Just another point, probably not relevant now but in the future if ye were ever to look for a mortgage, the bank would not look favorably at lots of betting transactions on his statements. It would make getting a mortgage very difficult.

Again, we don't know if that will be the case either. He may not be using his current account for this stuff. He also might have big enough savings that it won't be an issue.

Stavro Mueller

He'd want to. I remember all the statements and other information I had to give the bank when I was applying for my mortgage. They go through the things with a fine tooth comb.

LuckyLloyd

New boyfriend? Which presumably means you aren't due to get married and have kids together next week, right? You're obviously involved for a number of positive reasons and this will be the first of more things (good and bad) you've yet to find out about him.

I have a number of friends who will bet €20 when watching a football match. They lose anything between €200 - €500 a year depending on how lucky they get and - when considered an entertainment expense they can well afford - is simply not a big deal. I don't gamble myself as I know enough to understand that PP and the likes have built their empire off such punters and I'm not a huge fan of being a mug. But the lads enjoy it, don't think too much of it.

Mention it to him, ask him about it. Get a sense of how big a thing it is for him. But don't be worrying about it at an early stage for jaysus sake! Have fun and relax.

JeffKenna

You really need to talk to him before jumping to any conclusions. The majority of my friends bet so I wouldn't take it as a red flag right away.

A question to ask would be if he keeps a record of all bets with wins and losses. If he did it would imply discipline so I wouldn't be overly worried. If not, then with the amounts his better I would be getting a bit worried.

Potatoeman

Gambling????? wrote: »

Stayed over in new boyfriend's apt & noticed bank statements in the kitchen. I wasn't being nosy, they were left out in the open. Anyway there's have a huge amount of gambling transactions including a lot of small wins.

Normally I'd walk I don't want to date someone with a gambling addiction but he seems to be breaking even at worst. Not enough seen to get the full picture. Any thoughts?

Its going to be a tough one to approach if you are not going out long. Firstly you looked at his statements, which is invasion of privacy. Look at threads about partners checking phones and think about how much more serious what you done is. Secondly as you are judging his behaviour, which although later could be an issue is it something you can pull up now? I guess you should approach it very carefully.

LadyAthame

If it's multiple bookies with bets on the same events it's hedging or arbitrage. If it's online it's hedging if it's offline it's more likely to be arbitrage. Online rarely gives enough time for an edge for arbers. And online bookies are excellent at detecting those bets and cancelling them. Arbers usually work in groups. That can be an issue, in a syndicate of gamblers there can be one bad egg.

But the good thing is it may not all be his own money all the time. They pool liquidity and share winnings.But they have to know the events they bet on very very well. They have know the sport.If he is sticking to a system and keeping control then he is not an addict. But syndicates can be complex full of complex people under a lot of stress. It's hard to make a profit and bookies want to make it harder.

It's perfectly legal but bookies hate it. Hedging is betting both ways arbitrage is trading diff prices to get money from the imbalance. He needs to be very good and sensible. People do it on stocks too.

I know virtually nothing about gambling. That is part of the issue it's a different world but also they can't let bookies figure it out.The system when correctly done without human error is said to be risk free but in reality bookies detect bets third parties sell these emails to compile client data etc.

I don't know about your bf etc. There is an AMA about gambling on here.If he has control and sticks to it there are still things that can go wrong. But that does not mean he is an addict. People just can't control everything. Ask him about it. I only mention arbitrage because someone else did. Take it as it is. Part of the issue is you don't feel you have enough knowledge to judge. And it's complex to way up risk i both figures and a person. Usually people are good at one or the other.

Addiction is lack of control and compulsion. Addicts can't control their betting nor bet on the best information and not bet when logic says not to. They feel a compulsion that will not go until they have a bet. They have to keep going but lack the control.If he misses socializing to go gamble and thinks about it all the time and goes out of control when he does. Then it's an addiction. It's a monstrous itch.

Another thing is with arbers it can look like they have made a huge loss on one account but they have actually won on another. There will be some losses it's not easy. Talk to him and ask tell him you will keep it discreet.

Full Marx

I'm not a big gambler but I have accounts with loads of bookies, this is to take advantage of their various offers and to secure the best odds. Most people who gamble at all have multiple accounts.


I would just ask him about it, but prepare to be criticized for snooping at his bank statements.

Akrasia

You have to talk to him

If he is cagey and doesn't want to talk about it, then run a mile, If he's happy to explain to you that he has a carefully worked out system and that while it looks like he's gambling a lot, all of his bets are hedged so his risk is low, then I'd accept that.

The worst kind of gambler is someone who thinks that they can cover losses with bigger bets. If your BF accepts that his system will have losses sometimes, but on average, he will be ahead, and if he is disciplined enough to stick to that system, then he should be ok. If he's erratic and his 100 euro bets are because someone gave him a tip, or because he had to cover a loss he made earlier in the day, then he's only going to break your heart.

Candy_Girl

€100 per bet rings alarm bells..you need to talk to him but from experience gamblers are extremely good lairs.

LegacyUser

So we were away together for this weekend and I managed to bring gambling up in conversation. He admitted to putting €20/€30 on a game regularly. Said I thought that was a lot (Even though a lot less than on statement). He laughed and said that he usually wins and not to worry he's sensible.

Unfortunately I don't believe him.

Lollipops23

Gambling???? wrote: »

Unfortunately I don't believe him.

To be honest it's always going to come down to this.


If you can't trust him, you already know how this will end.

LegacyUser

Gambling???? wrote: »

He laughed and said that he usually wins and not to worry he's sensible.

Unfortunately I don't believe him.

If he is that nonchalant he has no idea what he is doing or he is taking you for a ride.

robbiezero

venus venus wrote: »

If he is that nonchalant he has no idea what he is doing or he is taking you for a ride.

Nothing I have heard so far is concrete evidence of either.

Stavro Mueller

He didn't volunteer any information about these foolproof arbitrage/hedging systems either, did he? The truth is, most people aren't as clever at gambling as you so clearly are. The guy downplayed what he is up to and lied. Which is either him not wanting to tell the OP his business or is him hiding the truth. I gamble a little myself but there is no way I would ever risk such large sums of my hard-earned money with the abandon this guy seems to be.

robbiezero

Stavro Mueller wrote: »

He didn't volunteer any information about these foolproof arbitrage/hedging systems either, did he? The truth is, most people aren't as clever at gambling as you so clearly are. The guy downplayed what he is up to and lied. Which is either him not wanting to tell the OP his business or is him hiding the truth. I gamble a little myself but there is no way I would ever risk such large sums of my hard-earned money with the abandon this guy seems to be.

Where did he do that? OP says she say him lodging hundreds to his account. The time span is not specified. That could be entirely consistent with having 20/30 on a game or games.
It looks like he has no system, and that is quite a bit of money to be gambling alright. But we don't know how much it is in relation to his salary. He may well have a gambling problem, but he also may not. I don't know and my general point is, that I cannot see that anyone else can know either based on what we have been told.

Stavro Mueller

That is true. But saying €20 to €30 on a game is a far cry from what she describes as a huge number of gambling transactions.

robbiezero

Stavro Mueller wrote: »

That is true. But saying €20 to €30 on a game is a far cry from what she describes as a huge number of gambling transactions.

It depends how many games he is betting on I guess, each 100 euro lodgement could be for betting on 4/5 games. I find it unlikely that he is mostly winning, but maybe he is.
Too many details missing i.e. the timespan of these transactions is it hundreds over a month, year etc.

LegacyUser

Just to update..

We broke up at the weekend..not specifically related to the gambling but more so because he can't tell the truth about anything. Lies over minor things that aren't worth lying over...golf results, how long his run was, his job etc

I got subjected to what I can only describe as a temper tantrum where I was called every name under the sun. This man is 37.

Thanks for your help. Can't believe I originally thought he was a decent guy

Shanotheslayer

I agree with Robbie, the majority of what he's saying is correct.

The people who are saying that it's a lot etc. Nobody knows his income, so maybe it's nothing to him. As said before it could be arbed/hedged. Or maybe, just maybe, he's really experienced with his picks.

A lot of experienced gamblers track there bets, so I'd assume he'd have spreadsheets on his computer/Laptop if you wanted to look into it that much.

The fact he has many bookies accounts, believe it or not is better than just having 1. If he was unloading that much in 1 bookies, it would show a lot of stupidity from a gamblers perspective.

In my relationship, I tell my girlfriend about my gambling and am quite open with it. She has no qualms about it once I have money to do the things we planned. She dislikes that sometimes I get in a bad mood if I hit a tough run, but I generally try to stir clear of showing her how p!ssed I am with it, but she'll listen and tolerate.

She knows I have multiple accounts and do 'Arbs/Hedge' she also knows how much I bet on average.

Full Marx

If he got into his big complicated system he might have thought she would think he was an addict or something, easier to just say he has a few bets on the football. Of course he doesn't know that she has violated his trust by snooping at his bank statements and is now trying to trip him up.

OP, tell him you saw the amounts, directly ask him and stop trying to trip him up and being dishonest about the whole thing. Don't be surprised if he breaks up with you because I certainly would, I have little time for the type of sneaky games you are playing.

Doodah7

Full Marx wrote: »

If he got into his big complicated system he might have thought she would think he was an addict or something, easier to just say he has a few bets on the football. Of course he doesn't know that she has violated his trust by snooping at his bank statements and is now trying to trip him up.

OP, tell him you saw the amounts, directly ask him and stop trying to trip him up and being dishonest about the whole thing. Don't be surprised if he breaks up with you because I certainly would, I have little time for the type of sneaky games you are playing.

Did you even read her last post above in your rush to judgement??

CaraMay

Gambling??? wrote: »

Can't believe I originally thought he was a decent guy

Don't beat yourself up. You have to give people a chance. This guy probably lied so much then he believed it himself. Lucky escape.

Full Marx

tallpaul wrote: »

Did you even read her last post above in your rush to judgement??

obviously not!