Broken mouth ewes

MacraPat

Well lads,

Looking at getting into a few shneeps.
I'm toying with the idea of picking up a few broken mouth ewes at the end of the summer. Give them a bit of minding , bitta meal. Put them to the ram.

I reckon the bit of minding I might have to give them would save me the hassle of lambing ewe lambs. My experience with sheep is limited(just cattle at home) so at least the ewes have been there and done it before.

If I can get the brokenmouth ewes cheaper than the ewe lambs, even if it all goes pear shaped I'll not have lost much.

Have any of ye experience in this?
Am I setting myself up for a fall buying older stock?
Will the minding to keep condition on the ewes be tougher than the minding of hoggets during lambing?

Green farmer

Where to start, firstly with fencing. What would keep in a cow won't keep in a sheep. Secondly is the money is small , then it's harmless. The older broken mouths will probably have a higher baron rate, give you singles instead of twins. The other thing is buy from a realiable source. I bought a batch of 8 about two years ago because they were cheap in the mart. Today only 2 alive. Keep them around too long and they'll die of old age. Often guys will only get rid when they're well past their best. Other then that you'll buy maybe 2-3 broken mouths to 1 hogget. Less chance of importing disease with hoggets instead of broken mouths, however if you get lucky with the broken mouths , you could do ok, The decision is yours.

MacraPat

There's sheep in the locality so I know the level of fencing required!

Higher barren rate accepted , but if I get a few singles easy I'm still winning rather than pulling singles from ewe lambs. Any doubles would be a bonus.

I'd be looking at steering clear of the mart, there's a lad a few mile away and I like his system and stock so would hope to buy off him.
Money will be small , only looking 10-15 max. Even if she's barren she's still a broken mouth ewe -> scrap price.

Connemara Farmer

You're off to a good start buying from a farm rather than the lottery that a mart can turn out to be. Broken mouths should do well in a good place with minding as well. The most important piece of this equation is the local lad, do you trust what he will tell you to be the truth? If you do, you're on a winner. Nothing worse than buying someone elses problems wrapped in a nice bow as perfect.

Quarantining them would be a good idea when they arrive, something you might want to talk to your vet about (before you buy anything), what they'd need in regards to external and internal parasite control and nuking those potential little problems before they become an issue for you.

I only buy in rams so am of limited use to this particular venture. I kept over an old broken mouth ewe on my own farm and she had a fine lamb, she got a bit of ration for a while before the rest came home from the hill but nothing spectacular, she kept in great condition too.

Older ewes will be well used to lambing, so less issues like young sheep deciding they don't want this wet squirmy thing trying to stagger in underneath them. Trouble can be they show a big bag of milk which might not be as full of milk as it looks, so would be taking good advice on ration and nutrition well, well before they lamb and buying a bag or two of soya bean meal wouldn't hurt.

If you can get someone to scan them as well that's helpful in knowing what to expect, and what levels of feed to give which animals.

fanadman1

i used to buy a few every year only stopped because i started buying ram lambs for stores instead and there was not enough grass to carry the main flock of 60 and 60 or 70 broken and 200 stores plus the cattle. its a good way to start because the investment is small and they will be well threw the run of lambing all before. so it makes your job a little easer as in no serous tight sheep even if a leg or head is back you can get space to work it. one thing i will say is try and buy the them early in year. as they do tend to get expensive come the backend of the year. only fault with this system is sometimes you will get one or 2 that could weed on you but generaly the cull ewe trade is strong when you will be doing your pre-breeding check. same story when you are scanning they should be expensive because the lambs will be getting short on the ground(hopefully). anyway this was a long story short its a good system. and funny now because of our numbers were so small when i was at collage. and getting out of collage im buying broken/aged ewes with lambs at foot with the hope of killing them when it is time to buy store lambs

Green farmer

Loads of ways of skinning a cat

ganmo

if they're very broken mouth(with 1/2 teeth left) you might try a bit of dentistry.
we sell off older ewes every year in the mart often getting repeat customers
If I was starting off a flock I'd go like you you are

MayoAreMagic

Id agree with Con, a lot depends on what kind of stock you have access to. For a guy with experience, or access to sheep from someone they know well, Id go for broken mouth ewes all day long. People don't sells good young ewes, you are simply buying the poorest animals there. Similarly, nobody sells their best hoggets. At least with broken mouths, you generally know the fault they have and they have been kept for a reasonable amount of time. Things to keep an eye out for with broken mouths is the udder, does she have both sides in working order, are the teats too big, are there any lumps? Is she in noticeably good condition? A broken mouth in that kind of nick means either she didn't have a lamb, or she lost it. A broken mouthed ewe who spent all year rearing a lamb wont be fat, but as long as she looks healthy and alert, you are probably onto a winner.
Also, Id be weary of a very nice looking ewe in the group. If all was right with her and she was fit to rear lambs, she wouldn't be in the pen.

Cran

If at all possible find a farmer running decent numbers, speak to them about looking to buy culls directly from them and as early after culling as possible. I cull hard and any dodgy mouths are gone, older ewes are just to much work in a large flock and would think 80% of culls are purely down to mouths. If your running smaller numbers on say a mixed farm you'd probably get 1/2 years more out of some easy enough I'd say.

I factory nearly all here due to time constraints, brought a bunch to a mart last year when selling rams. Some small farmers went mad for them, made about 20 a head extra what thought they'd make!

greysides

What's the likelihood of buying in a lot of sheep that will prolapse?

Green farmer

greysides wrote: »

What's the likelihood of buying in a lot of sheep that will prolapse?

Slim, the prolapse ones will have died long before their teeth fall out. However in the batch I bought a few years ago, all had broken mouths except one. Next lambing season she prolapsed and died.:( wouldn't mind but I asked the owner in mart beforehand if sheep were ok for breeding. He told me they were but failed to mention the prolapse one. I'd chance a hill sheep broken mouth but never a lowland one after that.

ulleJ1

If sheep prices hold you wont get anything at 15 euro max,
old broken mouths are making 50 upwards at the moment,
Id say you'll have to stretch your budget to 35 if you want anything with 4 legs next September!
That would still be good value as a decent ewe lamb will be at least twice that.

MacraPat

ulleJ1 wrote: »

If sheep prices hold you wont get anything at 15 euro max,
old broken mouths are making 50 upwards at the moment,
Id say you'll have to stretch your budget to 35 if you want anything with 4 legs next September!
That would still be good value as a decent ewe lamb will be at least twice that.

I was saying I was going to invest in 10 or 15 head of sheep. Apologies for any misunderstanding caused!

Keep the info coming lads , I'm loving it.

solerina

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Id agree with Con, a lot depends on what kind of stock you have access to. For a guy with experience, or access to sheep from someone they know well, Id go for broken mouth ewes all day long. People don't sells good young ewes, you are simply buying the poorest animals there. Similarly, nobody sells their best hoggets. At least with broken mouths, you generally know the fault they have and they have been kept for a reasonable amount of time. Things to keep an eye out for with broken mouths is the udder, does she have both sides in working order, are the teats too big, are there any lumps? Is she in noticeably good condition? A broken mouth in that kind of nick means either she didn't have a lamb, or she lost it. A broken mouthed ewe who spent all year rearing a lamb wont be fat, but as long as she looks healthy and alert, you are probably onto a winner.
Also, Id be weary of a very nice looking ewe in the group. If all was right with her and she was fit to rear lambs, she wouldn't be in the pen.

This to me is the key point...we sell broken mouth ewes every year and the ones that look best are the ones that rear nothing....often the smallest/thinnest ewe is that way because she gave everything to rear her lamb...these are the kind you want !!

stantheman1979

A pedigree breeder near us was left an outfarm 100 acres of decent but heavish ground 50 miles away. Every year he goes over to the west buys 500-600 of the cheapest ewes he can find. No more than 60 euro each. Flushes them, puts any ped ram lamb he has(char, vendeen) left over on them. Scans them. Sells twins and triplets in mart(gets 80-90 euro for them) Lambs the singles. Sells the lambs as they become fit. Weans them and all the ewes go to the factory gets back the money he paid for them. So all money from lambs is profit. Very much the stack em high sell them cheap approach. Hardly looks up or down on them as he is so far away. Goes and buys more. Im not saying its what to do but its decent profit from very low imput.