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Mens sex survey

  • 25-04-2015 7:10am
    #1
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,220 ✭✭✭✭


    This survey is for all men who have sex with men (including gay, bi, queer, straight, trans men)

    https://www.demographix.com/surveys/269S-BA44/ZLMHS389/?MISIhp

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



Comments

  • #2
    whupdedo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭whupdedo


    Do straight men have sex with other men, and if so can they be viewed as straight ?


  • #3
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,524 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    whupdedo wrote: »
    Do straight men have sex with other men, and if so can they be viewed as straight ?


    Yes, and yes.


  • #4
    formic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2 ✭formic


    whupdedo wrote: »
    Do straight men have sex with other men, and if so can they be viewed as straight ?

    The obvious example is male prostitutes who only have sex with other men for money.

    But there are definitely men who are 100% attracted to women, but somewhere along the line developed a fixation with sex with other men.

    Of course, there are men in total denial, even if they have same sex attraction and have sex with men all the time.

    Researchers found that they weren't getting accurate results by looking for data from men who just considered themselves gay or bi. So the concept of "men who have sex with men", or MSM, was created.


  • #5
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Yes, and yes.

    That just makes no sense, if he's having sex with guys then obviously he's attracted to them and not straight. And if he is then why the hell is he having sex with other men? Like unless he's a gay porn star or a prostitute then whats his excuse..


  • #6
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,220 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    wakka12 wrote: »
    That just makes no sense, if he's having sex with guys then obviously he's attracted to them and not straight. And if he is then why the hell is he having sex with other men? Like unless he's a gay porn star or a prostitute then whats his excuse..

    What qualifications do you have to define someones sexual orientation and then tell them that your definition is the only correct one.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • #7
    whupdedo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭whupdedo


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    What qualifications do you have to define someones sexual orientation and then tell them that your definition is the only correct one.

    I can see where the poster is coming from ,why would a straight guy with no interest in men , have sex with another man , even if he claims to have no attraction to other men and does it out of curiosity ? I'm sure the poster has absolutely no qualifications to establish another man's sexual orientation , but you're doing yourself no favours by your flippant dismissal of his post, maybe try and answer it in a productive manner rather than your current inept approach

    absolutely no offence meant , but your reply was childish at best


  • #8
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,220 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I just don't understand why people insist on defining a person and telling the person he is wrong in how he identifies. To me it is claiming to be more of an expert on someone than the person themselves. That's why I'm being flippant because I find it rude to say - "No, no you are gay. I insist you are gay and I know that you are gay. You might say you are straight but I know better and I am right"

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #9
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,220 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    An explanation from an article on the issue


    http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/straight_men_who,2.html




    The Difference between Gay Men and SMSM

    A gay man's sexual orientation is characterized by lasting aesthetic attraction to, romantic love of, and sexual attraction almost exclusively towards those of the same gender. A gay man's sexual thoughts, fantasies, and behavior are aligned. His identity is based on affectional, emotional, spiritual, psychological, and sexual feelings directed exclusively or mostly toward men.

    While some gay men can include and enjoy women as part of their sexual fantasies and behaviors (for instance, being sexual with a woman while with another man or experimenting by having sex with a woman), the gay man is mostly if not totally attracted to men.

    In contrast, SMSM might fantasize about men, but their primary sexual and romantic attractions are toward women. They are heterosexual men who for a variety of reasons engage in sexual behavior with other men. They are not gay, nor are they bisexual, though their sexual behavior includes sex with other men. The key point is that they do not self-identify or see themselves as gay or bisexual.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #10
    Geniass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 643 ✭✭✭Geniass


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I just don't understand why people insist on defining a person and telling the person he is wrong in how he identifies.

    But you're saying it's wrong for someone to identify someone else according to their own beliefs/understanding. I think there's a contradiction there somewhere.

    If someone considers themselves a Martian, it's okay to not agree with them.


  • #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    whupdedo wrote: »
    Do straight men have sex with other men, and if so can they be viewed as straight ?

    I might be a useful example. I would identify as 100% straight myself. But I have had sexual contact with men on a couple of occasions involving the presence of my girlfriends. That is - while engaging in some inviting of others to play around with us on a couple of occasions I would have done sexual stuff with the guy and her. Mainly involving my hands and mouth.

    So I am straight and yet I would still likely qualify as someone who could fill in that survey from my past - and perhaps 1 or 2 times more in my future.


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  • #12
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,220 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Apologies if I was rude and dismissive earlier on in the thread I do have a problem with people insisting on telling other people; "You are gay" when the person identifies as straight or bi and insisting that they are more of an expert on the persons identity than the person themselves.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #13
    Geniass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 643 ✭✭✭Geniass


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I might be a useful example. I would identify as 100% straight myself. But I have had sexual contact with men on a couple of occasions involving the presence of my girlfriends. That is - while engaging in some inviting of others to play around with us on a couple of occasions I would have done sexual stuff with the guy and her. Mainly involving my hands and mouth.

    So I am straight and yet I would still likely qualify as someone who could fill in that survey from my past - and perhaps 1 or 2 times more in my future.

    I'm 100% behind a yes vote on the 22nd.

    I personally wouldn't consider myself straight if I was okay having sexual intimacy with a man. But, your point is taken, some might consider themselves straight when others would not think so.


  • #14
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I guess the difference might be that I view(ed) it as sexual intimacy with a woman - involving a man. The same way I view it when I bring sex toys into the bedroom. I am not attracted to the sex toys - but the use of them and the reaction of my partner to my use of them - is the focus of interest for me. I realise that objectifies entirely the guy(s) involved - but as long as they are consensually down with that - so was I.

    I am likely only one of many examples of the kind of people the survey means by "men who have sex with men" even those who identify as straight. The most obvious group has already been mentioned on the thread - men who are straight but consent to sex with men for money.

    Forums like this one - and I am on a few - occasionally have another subset of guys on it. There are always the occasion threads of "I am entirely straight but I want to try.........am I bi or what? I do not think I am!!!". And the users who start those threads are genuinely confused or concerned or requiring guidance. They are convinced they are straight but the concept of being with a guy has become a fixation.

    The reasons for this are numerous and some - all - or none of the ones I might list or example might apply to each guy in that scenario. One example would be the whole mirror neuron effect. That the concept of being with another guy is actually an extension of oneself.

    There is also the submissive-dominanance effect where a guy might want to consent with sex with another guy precisely BECAUSE he is not i not it. It is the erotic nature of submitting to it despite actively not wanting it that is the turn on. One of my girlfriends has a similar fantasy that she has never explored in reality - that part of her would actively like to sleep with a guy who she finds actively repulsive physically and emotionally/character. The mere act of submitting to it is a turn on - almost like a rape fantasy but it would be closer to _self_ rape in a way.

    Whatever the explanations it is clear there are more dynamics at play in sexuality than mere consistent attraction to one sex or another - and the reasons and motivations one might have for having homosexual encounters despite identifying as entirely heterosexual are as varied as people themselves. So it is scientifically prudent to target surveys and studies at "X having sex with X" as a whole and not merely at people who identify thusly.


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