parking fine Newbridge

Squigs30

Hi Everyone,

Not another fine query!! but i promise this is a good one!

So I parked outside Judge Roy Beans in a designated parking space at 1645 on a reasonably quiet Wed evening in January. Noticed that the parking sign beside the spot was completely covered in black plastic and thought that because of this parking was probably not in operation. Being cautious I went to the machine and paid €1 for an hour and went about my business. Upon returning to the car at 1757 ( ok i was 12 minutes late-it was a quiet wednesday evening) I saw the parking ticket warden beside it, asked could he leave it and he gave it the usual spiel of "sorry bud the fine is already gone through" I asked about the sign covered in plastic that normally displays the parking hours and he was having none of it. So I wrote an email to the appeals dept including the photograph attached which is geotagged and time stamped and they got back to me via letter and within it this quote-

"a decision has been made to reject your appeal as at the time of the alleged offence there was no valid P&D ticket displayed on the vehicle"

the letter also advised that I pay the ticket within 28 days.

I replied to this asking why no consideration was given to the fact that the sign was covered in plastic? I received an email back informing me of receipt of the 2nd appeal.

"Your appeal will be reviewed by Kildare County Council. You will be informed by post with a response"

Today I received a letter with the following details-

"after consideration and examination of information to hand including photographs, Kildare County Council is satisfied that the above mentioned contravention was committed under the relevant section of the Road Traffic Act 2002 of the Local Authorities (Traffic Wardens) Act 1975. A decision has been made to reject your re-appeal as at the time of the alledged offence there was no valid P&D ticket displayed on the vehicle. please be advised that nowhere it was suggested that pay parking was suspended.

The fine is valid.

please make an arrangement for payment of €60.00".....bla bla bla

the only quote above that annoys me is "please be advised that nowhere it was suggested that pay parking was suspended"

Can anyone please tell me if I have a leg to stand on with regard to the sign which was right beside my car?

I personally would assume that parking operations were out of action in this case but bought the ticket just in case and because I believe in contributing to the upkeep of local services.

L1011

You having accepted that the parking was in use by buying a ticket causes severe issues in arguing that it was suspended, unfortunately. Had you been fined for having no ticket at all it'd be a far stronger argument.

Squigs30

Yes I understand what you are saying L1011 but have they no responsibility to address the situation with the sign??

Also the initial fine was €40 and because of the time they take to get back to me regarding my appeals it is now €60.

guil

I'm nearly sure that was around the time there was work going on on the Main Street. Haven't. A clue why the sign would be covered but maybe that's why it was, there's other signs around the parking meters, one near mcdonnells pub and the other down near chicken America.

Squigs30

I am sure there is plenty of signs in Newbridge. I would have assumed that a sign covered would indicate that the collection of spaces in the vicinity were not under regular parking operations at that time. All I really want to know is- do Kildare County Council have to have signs completely uncovered/not obscured in order to carry out parking fine operations?

guil

I'd imagine the onus is on you to check if it's in operation or not. Not long ago I was parking down at the back of Finlay's. The machine was out of order but I rang the number on it just to be sure. I was told park there if I wanted but they couldn't guarantee I wouldn't be fined as there was other machines close by.

L1011

Squigs30 wrote: »

Yes I understand what you are saying L1011 but have they no responsibility to address the situation with the sign??

Realistically, no. You accepted there was paid parking by buying the ticket.

Keith186

L1011 wrote: »

Realistically, no. You accepted there was paid parking by buying the ticket.

Who's to say the sign wouldn't have said paid parking was finished at 1700? How is OP expected to know it was 1800 if the sign was covered.

I'm not sure of the technicalities of the law here but its not really a fair fine because the times of operation were not displayed.

Rackstar

Keith186 wrote: »

Who's to say the sign wouldn't have said paid parking was finished at 1700? How is OP expected to know it was 1800 if the sign was covered.

I'm not sure of the technicalities of the law here but its not really a fair fine because the times of operation were not displayed.

The parking meter has the times / price per hour / and max stay duration on it.

L1011

Keith186 wrote: »

Who's to say the sign wouldn't have said paid parking was finished at 1700? How is OP expected to know it was 1800 if the sign was covered.

I'm not sure of the technicalities of the law here but its not really a fair fine because the times of operation were not displayed.

Generally in Irish law accepting something as valid means it holds up as so in court. There's people who stayed in prison after a law was struck down because they pleaded guilty.

For an 80 quid fine the legal costs will be huge - there's zero chance of legal aid, zero chance of a no win no fee solicitor and a 100% chance of the state looking for costs when you lose.

brian_t

In both Celbridge and Leixlip there is

Pay Parking is in operation between the hours of 08:30 and 18:30 hours Monday to Saturday.

and all the signage around informs you of this.

However

Pay Parking is currently enforced between the hours of 10:00 and 16:00 Monday to Friday with no enforcement on Saturday. Please note that this arrangement may be subject to change.

http://kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/RoadsandTransportation/Payparking/PayparkingCelbridge/
http://kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/RoadsandTransportation/Payparking/PayparkingLeixlip/

Nowhere on any street signage does it mention this bit.


This doesn't apply to Newbridge though but I just thought I'd mention it.

mberm

Last week one of the traffic warden told me that there is 15 minute grace period at the end and 'not to worry' if I was a bit late back to the car!!

Squigs30

@L1011 I don't really intend on going all the way to court because I don't have time for that- I was just looking for some quick info on my rights in this situation based on what happened that I could send to the County Council and sort this out quickly. Its no big deal but if I can save myself €60 with a few choice words then I will.

Joe Public

mberm wrote: »

Last week one of the traffic warden told me that there is 15 minute grace period at the end and 'not to worry' if I was a bit late back to the car!!

There is usually a 10 minute grace period at the beginning which is to give you time to get a ticket. If a warden comes across a car with no ticket then they take note and check it again after 10 minutes or more and if still no ticket then a fine can follow.

Joe Public

I know this still doesn't help the OP but just to clarify what happens in Celbridge and Leixlip re. the different enforcement times.

The signs have to agree with the parking bye laws otherwise someone could get off with a fine if contested in court.

The meters and wardens know about the actual enforcement times.
If bye laws are to change then a review with public consultation etc. has to be gone through.

brian_t wrote: »

In both Celbridge and Leixlip there is

and all the signage around informs you of this.

However


http://kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/RoadsandTransportation/Payparking/PayparkingCelbridge/
http://kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/RoadsandTransportation/Payparking/PayparkingLeixlip/

Nowhere on any street signage does it mention this bit.


This doesn't apply to Newbridge though but I just thought I'd mention it.

LUZ

the wardens in newbridge are pure evil!! i was told its because they are a private company and not run by the council like in naas, dont know if thats true or not..

BuffyBot

LUZ wrote: »

the wardens in newbridge are pure evil!! i was told its because they are a private company and not run by the council like in naas, dont know if thats true or not..

Hitler, ISIS folks chopping heads off and Andie McDowell's shiny, shiny L'Oreal hair. Those are evil. People performing their jobs aren't

If you're going to post you might drop the hyperbole.

As for I was told, well I was told that it if matter what you post if you tack a flimsy disclamer on you don't need to check any facts!