She cheated on ex with me, only found out after we got together. Red flag?

wahwahjimi

Hi, I posted here a few months ago nd got some good advice. I'll be as honest as I can and not leave out any details. Sorry if it's boring.

I got out of a long relationship (5+ years) about 6 months ago and moved abroad. Enjoyed the single life and was very wary about getting into any sort of relationship early on. But was having a blast in general.

I met a girl around the middle of December and we started dating. She was a lot of fun, and we slept together pretty much straight away. We would always be drinking and partying and we both said we enjoyed the single life and we had no issues about the other seeing other people.

One night after about two months of this, she got drunk and said something along the lines of "neither of us want a relationship, might as well end it now, someone's gonna get hurt, never contact me again". I was a little hurt, and shocked, but let it go. No worries.

A couple of weeks later she got in touch to say she wanted to meet as she was having a bad time (a friend of hers had just died), so we started seeing each other again. I became a bit of a shoulder for her to cry on I guess. This went on for about two months (Feb-March), but things were different. We started doing couple-y things and she would essentially set up camp in my place for the weekend. I must say that I was still seeing other girls at this time.

Eventually, one night she said "I want to be in a relationship with you", and I said why not give it a shot, as we were essentially a couple anyways, we just hadn't stated it. So that's all fine. It did come as a total shock to me, as this is a total party girl with many, many short relationships and one-night things under her belt. All of which does not bother me in the slightest. She just wouldn't be the type who I would imagine myself in a long relationship with. But I am very fond of her and really enjoy her company.

So anyways, about a week into our relationship, she says "I wasn't going to tell you, but I am going to meet my (most recent) ex for lunch to get some things he has of mine from him". I said I had absolutely no problem with it. I asked when they broke up, and she said August of last year. I immediately smelled a rat, as I could have sworn she had told me December previously, but I let it go.

I didnt hear anythin more about her meeting with her ex until one night when she was very drunk and she told me "I met my ex yesterday for lunch" I asked her how it went and she said "I told him I had a boyfriend and he was surprised and said "wow, you never told me that!"".Again, I smelled a rat. It dint make sense to me how a short-term boyfriend (they were together 3 months) would be surprised that his ex had moved on when they had broken up supposedly 8 months previously (in august).

So anyway, the third rat I smelled was the fact that she never said another word about meeting her ex after that. She is usually very upfront about all her exes and her past, which I appreciate...but it was very out of character for her.

So I did something I swore I would never do, and went snooping in her phone.

What I saw shocked me. Turns out she was with her boyfriend until February, a good 6 weeks after we had first met and slept together. It seems the guy didnt treat her very well, but what scared me most was the lack of remorse for cheating on him (with me, and a number of other guys). I felt terrible for snooping, and still do. I must also say I saw some very nice messages about me, saying how much she loves me etc.

So I told her that I found it hard to believe that she was only getting stuff back from her boyfriend now after 8 months and that it doesnt add up. She looked me in the eye and blatantly lied to me and told me the original story.

Last week, I pushed her on a bit and she came clean (not the whole truth, but close enough). She broke down, said I deserved better, hates herself for doing it, is sorry for lying blah, blah, blah. I told her she destroyed my trust and will have to work hard to get it back.

So here's what's bothering me:
- She has an extensive history of cheating (once a cheater, always a cheater?)
- She is a very good liar. So good it's scary. She also had to be pushed to tell the truth.
- She cheated on her ex with me. I had NO INKLING that she had a boyfriend, nothing gave it away, I couldnt detect the slightest bit of guilt or anything FOR MONTHS. I essentially SAW her cheating and I have seen how she does it.
- I also saw a message in her phone when she was talking to a friend about meeting her ex. Although she said she definatley doesnt love him, she said "I don't want to meet him for a drink because I couldn't guarentee something wouldn't happen if we were drunk".

So I am asking you, give it a chance? Or am I setting myself up for a hurt further down the line. It feels crazy typing it. Am I giving myself an ego boost thinking that I'm different from the poor guys she has cheated on in the past?

Sorry its so long, but feels good to type it out!

retro:electro

Honestly? Both of ye are as bad as each other. You admit to still seeing other girls when you were as good as being in a relationship, you say ye were "essentially a couple, just hadn't stated it yet". It sounds like you both got off to a messy start when neither of you were particularly ready for a relationship with one another but I wouldn't solely lay all the blame at her feet.

MagicMarker

Run away fast OP.

anna080 wrote: »

Honestly? Both of ye are as bad as each other. You admit to still seeing other girls when you were as good as being in a relationship, you say ye were "essentially a couple, just hadn't stated it yet". It sounds like you both got off to a messy start when neither of you were particularly ready for a relationship with one another but I wouldn't solely lay all the blame at her feet.

Except he wasn't in a relationship.

pookie82

At the start of seeing someone new it's usual enough to carry on dating around and keep your options open until something is defined as exclusive, so I see where you were coming from on that score.

Her situation was NOT that, she was supposedly already IN a relationship when casually, frequently and without remorse sleeping with you. Not the same thing as playing the field while it's still early days.

I'd be more concerned that she lied calmly and repeatedly to your face about it than I would about anything else. Just because someone cheated in the past doesn't mean they'll do it again to you but look, it's not a great start, is it.

Her lies are more foreboding in my book. How can you ever trust she's being straight with you when she's such a good (and proven) liar? If I'm reading your post right, she hasn't even come FULLY clean with you now, and you really only know the full truth from reading her phone? I see years of snooping and lying ahead. If I were you, I'd probably cut ties before I got too invested.

Relationships are hard enough without setting out with that baggage.

wahwahjimi

Thanks for the quick replies!

Just to clarify, I am NOT the jealous kind and was totally fine with her seeing (and even sleeping with) other guys while we were casual. She was ok with me doing the same. It was great. But we always gravitated back to each other and prioritised each other, even when casual.

Also, I have NEVER cheated on anyone, I find it disgusting (ironically, she agreed when we had this conversation while she was still with her boyfriend!).

And it is the blatant lies that bother me the most.

And I really, really hate the fact that I snooped. But I had serious doubts anyway, and at least I know what kind of person she is. I never would have found out (or found out too late).

But, in fairness, I feel she really does love me and I really enjoy her company. She can be incredibly generous and caring too.

Am I deluding myself? Or can people like this change?

beks101

OP do you actually want to be in a relationship with this woman?

Because I'm really not getting that you are from your post. It's all "not my usual type...she's a party girl / a lot of fun....I was still seeing other girls...she was seeing other guys...we both said we didn't want a relationship.."

Then suddenly her friend dies, you become her crutch, she suggests a relationship and you kinda go along with it for the craic? Why bother?

It sounds like a lot of hassle already and not a whole lot of trust and mutual respect for something so new. That and you're five seconds out of a long-termer and by all accounts were enjoying the single life. Is it worth it?

Yurt2

More red flags than Communist rally. She's a VALIDATION JUNKIE and she'll go get that validation from anywhere she can find it.

Nuke 'relationship' from orbit and get the hell out of there.

Yurt2

anna080 wrote: »

Honestly? Both of ye are as bad as each other. You admit to still seeing other girls when you were as good as being in a relationship, you say ye were "essentially a couple, just hadn't stated it yet". It sounds like you both got off to a messy start when neither of you were particularly ready for a relationship with one another but I wouldn't solely lay all the blame at her feet.

BS. This woman is all over the shop and can't keep her lies straight. The OP has done NOTHING wrong. (Save getting involved with a toxic person)

pookie82

beks101 wrote: »

OP do you actually want to be in a relationship with this woman?

Because I'm really not getting that you are from your post. It's all "not my usual type...she's a party girl / a lot of fun....I was still seeing other girls...she was seeing other guys...we both said we didn't want a relationship.."

Then suddenly her friend dies, you become her crutch, she suggests a relationship and you kinda go along with it for the craic? Why bother?

It sounds like a lot of hassle already and not a whole lot of trust and mutual respect for something so new. That and you're five seconds out of a long-termer and by all accounts were enjoying the single life. Is it worth it?

I was thinking the exact same thing. You never mention falling in love with her or deciding that although you had been content in your newfound single life, you couldn't let the opportunity to be with her pass you by.

I personally think as soon as you have to check someone's phone to get the truth, the relationship will never be the same again (and I speak as someone who has done this!).

Why don't you keep having fun and enjoying the single life until someone a lot less hassle comes along?

retro:electro

Yurt! wrote: »

BS. This woman is all over the shop and can't keep her lies straight. The OP has done NOTHING wrong. (Save getting involved with a toxic person)

Maybe so, but nevertheless the OP nowhere indicates he even wanted to be in a relationship with this girl. The nicest thing he says about her is that he is "fond of her". Neither of them were ready to settle down, the OP had a myriad of women on the go and she sounds like she wasn't in the most stable of places. Not making excuses for her at all but I think they are both to blame for the position they now find themselves in.

Pippy1976

wahwahjimi wrote: »

at least I know what kind of person she is.

... which is a person that sound's like you don't have much time for, if you're focusing on the cheating / lying aspect of her personality that is.

wahwahjimi

Well, all the advice so far is great.

And I want to make it clear that I love spending time with this girl, and it just seems to work, even though she wouldnt be my usual type. She really puts the effort in. Invites me out with friends and family and all that stuff. More than I would.

Love? I don't know, but I'd hate to end it prematurely.

But now my trust has been shaken badly.

And I want to know if people like this can really change? What are peoples experiences with people like this?

Am I an idiot?

Chipolor

Chances are she won't change, certainly not in the short term. Continue seeing her casually if you like but do not enter a relationship with this woman. She will cheat on you.

TheBeardedLady

anna080 wrote: »

Maybe so, but nevertheless the OP nowhere indicates he even wanted to be in a relationship with this girl. The nicest thing he says about her is that he is "fond of her". Neither of them were ready to settle down, the OP had a myriad of women on the go and she sounds like she wasn't in the most stable of places. Not making excuses for her at all but I think they are both to blame for the position they now find themselves in.

Perhaps what he knows now is tainting his opinion and he's trying to save his ego? Human enough, I'd say.



Being a cheater in the past is one thing but the lying is another thing entirely. I'd run a mile, personally. I could never trust a person who told such bare-faced lies repeatedly and still hadn't come clean.

TheBeardedLady

wahwahjimi wrote: »

Well, all the advice so far is great.

And I want to make it clear that I love spending time with this girl, and it just seems to work, even though she wouldnt be my usual type. She really puts the effort in. Invites me out with friends and family and all that stuff. More than I would.

Love? I don't know, but I'd hate to end it prematurely.

But now my trust has been shaken badly.

And I want to know if people like this can really change? What are peoples experiences with people like this?

Am I an idiot?

Does she want to change? Has she expressed her desire to change and make amends? She hasn't even come clean 100% to you.

pookie82

wahwahjimi wrote: »

Well, all the advice so far is great.

And I want to make it clear that I love spending time with this girl, and it just seems to work, even though she wouldnt be my usual type. She really puts the effort in. Invites me out with friends and family and all that stuff. More than I would.

Love? I don't know, but I'd hate to end it prematurely.

But now my trust has been shaken badly.

And I want to know if people like this can really change? What are peoples experiences with people like this?

Am I an idiot?

Can cheaters change? Many would say yes.

Can bare faced liars change? Rarely, in my experience.

maria34

Bare in mind that theres girls who dont cheat and lie and arent that mych drama in general. So figure out are u worth something better?

strobe

I'm not come one that thinks a cheater is always a cheater or anything like that. Every relationship is different, and people are in a constant state of flux. Everyone changes over time.
But ah man, it'd be one thing if she was able to say "Oh this is what I was like when I was young and stupid and selfish, I regret how I was back then, but I've grown a lot since then and I'm a different person now". But this is who she presently is. Someone that has lied to you bare facedly right from the time you met her and has continued to do so right up to the present.

Nah, you probably don't marry this one. Go back to the riding and good times with no commitment or expectation where you both have no reason to trust each other or need to be honest as it's all just a bit of a laugh, if you'd like. But you'd be mad as a bag of frogs to keep going with a relationship tbh.

Are you sure her friend died btw? Or just have her word for that?

DukeOfTheSharp

Just end it. She's not trustworthy and says you deserve better, that's a classic diversionary tactic when someone is in the wrong. She was cheating on her boyfriend - who you were completely unaware of - with you for a long time and won't even come 100% clean when she's caught out. Best bet is to get out now, she's too unstable and has a history of cheating with multiple guys at the same time. At best, she's a serial cheater who craves attention, at worst, she could or already has cheated on you out of necessity. She lied to you, created a relationship with you under false pretenses and hasn't the spine to come clean and give you the chance to feel like you could trust her again. People can change, but she hasn't and won't. It's her nature, and nobody needs that drama. She needs a boot to the backside, and she needs to grow up.

LadyAthame

The title means she cheated on you too. And you admit to dating other girls. She seems all over the place and a bit of a disaster.

She has cheated not just once EXTENSIVELY. It's her personality.

Phone message.

I would be running away.

The fact that she keeps lying and lying it's not one thing or a couple of times. It's her personality.

It's more than just being a party girl she is a drama queen. I don't think she really wants to change. She will keep you in the dark about things and treat you like you are stupid.

She goes through a period of grief. For which I am very sorry. But I wonder is that just what caused this sudden change of heart??

She has really hurt you I can read it in your post.

Matteroffact

So you were both seeing others when you met first last December and were not exclusive until March. She was with another guy when she met you but as you were both with others and this was an understanding between you I don't see the problem. She probably wasn't exclusive with the last guy either and he knew it so essentially she wasn't cheating on him either with you, you were all seeing others at the same time. Then come March she decided she wanted to be exclusive with you and broke all links with past boyfriends and that is where you are at now. She doesn't have to tell you anything about past boyfriends at this time. All you need to know now is if she is ready to be exclusive with you and if so then she doesn't date others and neither do you. If you are both ready for this then no problems. Forget about the past now but if you find that she cheats on you at any stage from now on then that's it, it is over.

wahwahjimi

Hi, thanks for all replies so far, really helpful. I dont have any very close friends here, so no one to talk it through with, so this really helps.

I think there is a slight misunderstanding- when we met, I assumed we were both single. I didnt get too emotionally attached, as I was seeing other girls and so was she. I was not cheating on anyone. This arrangement was 100% fine with me.

Just to reiterate, she WAS in an exclusive relationship with the last guy when she met me. Told me that he didnt trest her very well, he went off the radar for days on end, generally treated her with very little respect etc. She knows this is no excuse for what she did, but it does generally seem like he was a bit of an ass.

Cheating on her ex in the manner she did disgusts me. I would not have gone near her if I found out at the start. Feel very bad for the guy, and am just afraid that now that I am in his shoes, am I going to get the same treatment? Most people here think that cheaters can change, so I appreciate your advice...

The other issue is the lying. We spend a lot of time together and now I genuinely have no further reason for concern. But I just cant tell if I am fooling myself.

She really does seem happy with me, tells me all the time, and I have to admit, I havent felt so strongly about anyone since my last ex.

We spend our whole weekend together and usually a night or two mid week. We've met each others friends and have taken trips away together. I'm tearing myself up trying to decide whether to get out now, or give it a chance.

Virgil°

wahwahjimi wrote: »

Just to reiterate, she WAS in an exclusive relationship with the last guy when she met me. Told me that he didnt trest her very well, he went off the radar for days on end, generally treated her with very little respect etc. She knows this is no excuse for what she did, but it does generally seem like he was a bit of an ass.

Says who? her? Do you know this for a fact or are you taking her word for it?
In the VERY best scenario here(if you believe her) , her reaction to relationship trouble is infidelity and lies.
Its been rosy enough so far but what happens if you have an argument with her? That would drive me up the walls with worry.

There's every chance she won't act like this with you, for sure. But personally I would get out of there before things become too serious. The risk of being burned to cinders by this girl would be far too high.

Sorry if that's not what you want to hear OP.

All the best.

LadyAthame

I have never cheated. I have a zero tolerance policy to cheaters.

I have been with a total bastard and never became one.

Sorry it's just the way I am.

Matteroffact

She wasn't happy with the last guy and knew it wasn't going to last and that made her look for someone new. She is happy with you so no worries. So long as you are both happy then she won't cheat. This is a totally different scenario to what she had before. I would start enjoying this relationship and stop worrying.

strobe

Matteroffact wrote: »

She wasn't happy with the last guy and knew it wasn't going to last and that made her look for someone new. She is happy with you so no worries. So long as you are both happy then she won't cheat. This is a totally different scenario to what she had before. I would start enjoying this relationship and stop worrying.

It's far from unheard of for someone to tell the person they are cheating on with that their partner is this big massive horrible person so that makes it OK. That's usually the way tbh. The other man/woman is always told the partner is a bad guy in one way or another and the cheater is an entirely innocent victim. Doesn't mean it's true.

May not be the case here but worth keeping in mind.

LadyAthame

Matteroffact wrote: »

She is happy with you so no worries. So long as you are both happy then she won't cheat. This is a totally different scenario to what she had before. I would start enjoying this relationship and stop worrying.

That's very naive.

Mr. Incognito

As a guy who has dated this type of woman thinking they will change,

She wont.

She will get bored and look for the next ego boost.

You checked her phone. The trust ended that day.

Its over.

Get out now.

Stavro Mueller

I think when you find yourself starting a thread on an internet forum because you've got doubts, you're already in trouble. It's easy to get distracted by the timelines here but what is coming through here is that you don't trust her. After reading what you've written, I'd not trust her as far as I'd throw her but that's just my opinion. What is worrying is how she continued to lie to your face. When she finally did tell you the truth, your words are "Last week, I pushed her on a bit and she came clean (not the whole truth, but close enough)". My feeling is that she told you the almost truth because she was trapped and had nowhere else to go with her lies. Then again maybe I am being cynical.

Ethel

This situation is a disaster. You could each do with some time on your own to reset things. I'm not so sure she can just change over night. Why does she want this after what she said about you both not wanting a relationship? How do you know you're not her safe bet until something else comes along?

There is too much uncertainty and dishonesty involved here. Moving forward this will get more toxic than it already is. I'd advise a clean break tbh.

manjosh

First of all this you doing here is simple because you probably love her alot. This is more than enough mistake or excuse to kick any girl to the cub.

About cheating on her bf with you, what if the guy is a serial cheater or something along that line and she just paying him back with you, who happens to be okay with the no string picture?.

She as always liked you from the start and not telling you about the secret boyfriend that she might be hoping will change towards her is just a way for her to protect her interest.
She considers you as the "special type" so telling you about the boyfriend will paint the picture you are having right now in you mind. And since she considered you a relationship type she does not want to ruin her chances with you.

The only problem i have is not with the first lie, it is the cycle and repeated lies.

This is something she is use to, and habit is very hard to break.
And lieing is even worse, it like reflex for people like that, they don't have to think before they formulate a mind blowing cover story.

The only solution i see to this is to confront her about the mix in date august and december. And tell her how different you are to her previous bfs and that you really want her to come very clean, and how much you care about her blah blah.

If what she say again is different from the proofs you have after begging her to come clean with you, i suggest you break things off with her.
If need be tell her about the phone stuff u saw, it normal everyone snoops around when they smell rat.
The sin is when you just snoop around without a motive or cause.

This is because the road to changing cronic liars like that is very hard, and you have to be really tough.

Another solution is for you guys to establish an open relationship status.
But mind you it wont last, simply becos you both really do like eachother.

Tip: When you are confronting her be very nice, maybe cook her a dinner or even breakfast and wait for the "moment" to ask. That is like the closest and emotional time between to people. It might b after a massage, helping em e.t.c but definately not after sex...NO.

Cheers.

B00MSTICK

So a week after starting an exclusive relationship with you, she essentially told her friend that if she was drunk she might sleep with her ex?
This is the same ex that supposedly treated her so badly?
No thanks...

pookie82

B00MSTICK wrote: »

So a week after starting an exclusive relationship with you, she essentially told her friend that if she was drunk she might sleep with her ex?
This is the same ex that supposedly treated her so badly?
No thanks...

Good point actually.

How can you trust someone who doesn't even trust themselves?