can my 16yr old daughter get British citizenship through me?

kaykay55

Hello. I'm new to this! Not sure if this is the right forum? I was born in Northern Rhodesia when it was under British rule so I have a British passport. Can my 16yr old daughter get one through me? I have researched but can't find answers. All I can find is this, but no mention is made of date of birth of child:

"Recent changes to rectify the gender discrimination laws from the past now mean that British Mothers (including those born in the UK) can now pass on British Nationality to their children.

Before 1983, it was only men who could pass down British Nationality to their children. This was changed in 1983, and further amendments in 2010 now mean that children get (almost) identical Nationality rights from mothers as they do from fathers. The most common examples that we are seeing today are people living outside of the UK who are unaware that their UK-born mother could pass British Nationality on to them."

thanks for any help.

flugus

When our children were born (my husband is German) we were living in Germany, and I obtained British nationality for them through the embassy. Maybe try talking to someone at the embassy in Dublin. Good luck!

Pro Hoc Vice

kaykay55 wrote: »

Hello. I'm new to this! Not sure if this is the right forum? I was born in Northern Rhodesia when it was under British rule so I have a British passport. Can my 16yr old daughter get one through me? I have researched but can't find answers. All I can find is this, but no mention is made of date of birth of child:

"Recent changes to rectify the gender discrimination laws from the past now mean that British Mothers (including those born in the UK) can now pass on British Nationality to their children.

Before 1983, it was only men who could pass down British Nationality to their children. This was changed in 1983, and further amendments in 2010 now mean that children get (almost) identical Nationality rights from mothers as they do from fathers. The most common examples that we are seeing today are people living outside of the UK who are unaware that their UK-born mother could pass British Nationality on to them."

thanks for any help.

It will all depend on the flavour of British passport you hold. There is not just one type of British passport.

who the fug

Just looking at the regulations there , clear as mud ae per bleeding usual.

The way I am reading it , if you were born a British National (ie full right of abode in the UK from day one) then your daughter can get a passport

Where did you grow up?

kaykay55

Thank you for replies! I grew up in South Africa. My daughter was born in South Africa. My son got citizenship through me, but he says it only applies if child is born before 1983. He was born 1982; my daughter in 1998. We have been living in Ireland for nearly 7 years now. My South African husband has not got his Irish naturalization yet, so she can't apply till he gets his.

ohnonotgmail

are you a british citizen or a british subject?

kaykay55

On the Irish website it says:
"Self supporting

In general, apart from refugees and stateless persons, applicants for naturalisation must prove they can support themselves and their families while living in Ireland. If you can show that you have not received State support in the 3 years before your application, this will generally meet the Minister for Justice and Equality's requirement that you have been supporting yourself and your dependants and that you will continue to do so."

but because he is not employed by somebody; ie doesn't get a regular pay, they might not grant it?

ohnonotgmail

kaykay55 wrote: »

On the Irish website it says:
"Self supporting

In general, apart from refugees and stateless persons, applicants for naturalisation must prove they can support themselves and their families while living in Ireland. If you can show that you have not received State support in the 3 years before your application, this will generally meet the Minister for Justice and Equality's requirement that you have been supporting yourself and your dependants and that you will continue to do so."

but because he is not employed by somebody; ie doesn't get a regular pay, they might not grant it?

surely he would have accounts to show them?

kaykay55

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

are you a british citizen or a british subject?

I am a British citizen (just looked on my passport!)

kaykay55

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

surely he would have accounts to show them?

yes. i told him he could send in supporting documents.

ohnonotgmail

this might be a good place to start. It asks you a series of questions and then determines if you qualify for citizenship.

https://www.gov.uk/check-british-citizen

who the fug

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

this might be a good place to start. It asks you a series of questions and then determines if you qualify for citizenship.

https://www.gov.uk/check-british-citizen

That all comes down to the following

Was one or both of your parents a British citizen 'not by descent'?


Only way to find out is to lodge the application.

daheff

kaykay55 wrote: »

yes. i told him he could send in supporting documents.

Can he not apply for British citizenship based on his marriage to you?

munchkin_utd

hi,
I'm fairly sure you can do this BUT only until the child is 18 (so again good, but act now!).
Heres the relevant page
https://www.gov.uk/register-british-citizen/children-born-outside-uk
and heres a detailed guide into the ins and outs of it
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/417568/mn1_guide_mar_2015.pdf

and the reason that your child will be british is :
"British citizenship may descend to one generation born abroad. So a child born abroad to a parent who is British otherwise than by descent will automatically be British by descent. "
and you had a british citizenship because of where you were born (i.e .not by decent) so that qualifies.

The whole thing about 1983 etc is just the brits sorting out old laws that were COMPLETLY out of order and determined that citizenship could only be passed down by a father and not a mother.
(Which is insane, as a 5 minute holiday fling could result in a British child being fathered to a foreign mother, but a british woman living abroad would never automatically have british children of her own. )

kaykay55

who the fug wrote: »

That all comes down to the following

Was one or both of your parents a British citizen 'not by descent'?


Only way to find out is to lodge the application.

My father was born in Britain - Manchester. thank you for all this info!

who the fug

kaykay55 wrote: »

My father was born in Britain - Manchester. thank you for all this info!

If you never had any other Nationality except British , then I think you should be OK .

ElChe32

If your husband is planning on becoming an Irish citizen he should check out www.inis.gov.ie go to the residency calculator and put the details of his stamps in. All he needs to show is bank statements from the past 3 months. certified b/c and passport and fill in a form that needs to be certified by an irish solicitor. I can't see him having any problems even if self employed.

kaykay55

who the fug wrote: »

If you never had any other Nationality except British , then I think you should be OK .

thank you.

kaykay55

I am going to lodge the application!

No daheff, he apparently can't apply for British citizenship even though we've been married for more than 30 years.

ElChe32

kaykay55 if you need advice regarding the Irish citizenship application process you can drop into the NCP (New communities partnership) office on Gardiner Street, it's a free service and they will go through all documents needed.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

kaykay55

ElChe32 wrote: »

kaykay55 if you need advice regarding the Irish citizenship application process you can drop into the NCP (New communities partnership) office on Gardiner Street, it's a free service and they will go through all documents needed.

thank you!

kaykay55

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yes, I remember that now!

Carawaystick

sugarman wrote: »

Sure, English footballers are granted passports in order to play for Ireland if their grandparents are Irish.

Apart from Tony Cascarino... Irish citizens get passports, and can then play for Ireland.

munchkin_utd

ElChe32 wrote: »

kaykay55 if you need advice regarding the Irish citizenship application process you can drop into the NCP (New communities partnership) office on Gardiner Street, it's a free service and they will go through all documents needed.

indeed, is the child not long enough in Ireland to get assimilated (naturalised or whetever its called) at this stage?

In countries like Germany its 8 years straight residency, and a test, and forfeiture of the old citizenship and about a grand in fees, in switzerland its worse and you have to convince the local council you are deserving, including standing up in front of the local residents meeting to explain why you are deserving (which with a country that passes anti foreigner referendums can mean blow ins never get the citizenship), but in Ireland you have to be in Ireland barely a couple of years and you get citizenship. It must be the easiest country to get a passport for in Europe to be honest.

That could be the easiest way to get an EU passport, which presumably is the aim of the procedure anyhow.

ElChe32

I wouldn't fully go along with "easiest place to get a passport", there have been many changes in the last year (I work in immigration). You need 5 years reckonable residency here. (student visa/stamp 2) don't count. Also being "of good character" is really being pushed. Offenses against the state from not having an NCT to drink driving could see a denial of citizenship.

kaykay55

munchkin_utd wrote: »

indeed, is the child not long enough in Ireland to get assimilated (naturalised or whetever its called) at this stage?

In countries like Germany its 8 years straight residency, and a test, and forfeiture of the old citizenship and about a grand in fees, in switzerland its worse and you have to convince the local council you are deserving, including standing up in front of the local residents meeting to explain why you are deserving (which with a country that passes anti foreigner referendums can mean blow ins never get the citizenship), but in Ireland you have to be in Ireland barely a couple of years and you get citizenship. It must be the easiest country to get a passport for in Europe to be honest.

That could be the easiest way to get an EU passport, which presumably is the aim of the procedure anyhow.

I have no idea. I thought a child could only get irish citizenship through parents? will have to check; if the British one doesn't work.

Marcusm

kaykay55 wrote: »

My father was born in Britain - Manchester. thank you for all this info!

I think you are British by descent as you were not born in Britain. I have friends whose children were born in Hong Kong who believe that their children cannot pass on their citizenship because of this descent rule - effectively you can only be one generation removed from being born in Britain post 1983 Act changes. That being said, it changes regularly. My friends are both English born solicitors and have, I suspect, researched it significantly. For them it would be a greater issue as the (putative) grandchildren would end up stateless.

kaykay55

Marcusm wrote: »

I think you are British by descent as you were not born in Britain. I have friends whose children were born in Hong Kong who believe that their children cannot pass on their citizenship because of this descent rule - effectively you can only be one generation removed from being born in Britain post 1983 Act changes. That being said, it changes regularly. My friends are both English born solicitors and have, I suspect, researched it significantly. For them it would be a greater issue as the (putative) grandchildren would end up stateless.

thanks. I was "born in Britain" because Northern Rhodesia was under British rule at the time. so i got my citizenship through this, not through my father.

Dandelion6

ElChe32 wrote: »

I wouldn't fully go along with "easiest place to get a passport", there have been many changes in the last year (I work in immigration). You need 5 years reckonable residency here. (student visa/stamp 2) don't count. Also being "of good character" is really being pushed. Offenses against the state from not having an NCT to drink driving could see a denial of citizenship.

All of those things have been true for far more than the last year! In my experience the good character requirement isn't applied now as strictly as it used to be - minor offences aren't necessarily fatal anymore, and the more borderline ones tend to result in deferral rather than an outright refusal as was formerly the case.

Marcusm

kaykay55 wrote: »

thanks. I was "born in Britain" because Northern Rhodesia was under British rule at the time. so i got my citizenship through this, not through my father.

I don't think it's that simple as you were born either in a British colony or British protectorate rather than in Britain. Since 1983, the whole process because complicated because of the stratification of different types of British nationality for those born overseas and the children of those born overseas. This is based on lots of different factors including whether your father registered for any of the other types of citizenship available to him (if any) on the disestablishment of the various colonies and establishment of independent states. You'll find more dedicate and knowledgeable posters on the UK Immigration Forum or british expat.com. Stuff like the following:

http://britishexpats.com/forum/africa-84/northern-rhodesian-naturalization-certificates-again-757260/

cobham

Maggie Thatcher was PM at time of Hong Kong handover to chinese and that was background to rule change about not being able to pass on nationality to your children.

kaykay55

cobham wrote: »

Maggie Thatcher was PM at time of Hong Kong handover to chinese and that was background to rule change about not being able to pass on nationality to your children.

My son got his through me.

Marcusm

kaykay55 wrote: »

My son got his through me.

Indeed but as he was born in 1982, his entitle,ent was governed under the British Nationality Act 1948 whereas persons born from 1983 onwards have theirs governed by the British Nationality Act 1981 which, inter alia, limits the ability of British Citizens living overseas to pass British nationality on to children who are born overseas. As stated in earlier posts, it is likely that the key criterion to be established is the means by which you are a British citizen. You were born overseas to a person who was, at the time a "Citizen of the United Kingdom and Commonwealth" which was the post 1948 term for what was previously referred to as a "British subject". Depending on what registrations, if any, your father and/or you made on the break up of the colonies and protectorates, you may be a "British Citizen by descent" rather than a "British Citizen". The lack of any "connection" by citizens in circumstances such as your (not/never living in Britain itself) is what permits them to distinguish your position.