Advice on new central heating installation

hometruths

I live in an old house that has no central heating, I live in a small part with a stove that does me fine! However the missus is moving in so i have to finish renovating the rest and install some sort of central heating!

Its detached house, 2250 sq ft, will be replacing all windows with double glazing, insulating roof, and externally insulating walls. Probably need max 14 rads.

My hotwater is heated by a thermodynamic solar panel which I am happy with and would like to retain that separate to CH.

Gas and oil very tricky as access almost impossible for deliveries, though I could purchase bottles or drums.

I have access to almost unlimited firewood, free bar the labour.

Obviously some level solid fuel is the way to go. What I am wondering is does it make sense to combine with something else.

I have done some searching on log boilers, but don't really have the space for a massive boiler and tank.

Ideally I'd like a system that will be used on a timer in the morning to give a short blast of heats so its not baltic when we wake up, before we light a stove.

Thought of using the large gas bottles but read somewhere they where cripplingly expensive.

On stoves with boilers - are they only inset stoves or can they be front and centre?

I am tempted just to install a stove with a good boiler to run the rads, and if needs be put a couple of electric heaters on a timer for an hour in the depths of winter.

If I go down that road, would it be overly complicated to add a backup in the future if the occasional heater plan doesn't cut the mustard with the missus?

All suggestions very welcome, I know nothing about this so am feeling a bit clueless.

Dtp1979

schmittel wrote: »

I live in an old house that has no central heating, I live in a small part with a stove that does me fine! However the missus is moving in so i have to finish renovating the rest and install some sort of central heating!

Its detached house, 2250 sq ft, will be replacing all windows with double glazing, insulating roof, and externally insulating walls. Probably need max 14 rads.

My hotwater is heated by a thermodynamic solar panel which I am happy with and would like to retain that separate to CH.

Gas and oil very tricky as access almost impossible for deliveries, though I could purchase bottles or drums.

I have access to almost unlimited firewood, free bar the labour.

Obviously some level solid fuel is the way to go. What I am wondering is does it make sense to combine with something else.

I have done some searching on log boilers, but don't really have the space for a massive boiler and tank.

Ideally I'd like a system that will be used on a timer in the morning to give a short blast of heats so its not baltic when we wake up, before we light a stove.

Thought of using the large gas bottles but read somewhere they where cripplingly expensive.

On stoves with boilers - are they only inset stoves or can they be front and centre?

I am tempted just to install a stove with a good boiler to run the rads, and if needs be put a couple of electric heaters on a timer for an hour in the depths of winter.

If I go down that road, would it be overly complicated to add a backup in the future if the occasional heater plan doesn't cut the mustard with the missus?

All suggestions very welcome, I know nothing about this so am feeling a bit clueless.

If you've free fuel then don't waste money on oil or gas. Install a solid fuel boiler that doesn't require a buffer tank. Do not put this on a sealed system. I'd link this to a solid fuel boiler inside, so whichever one you've lighting you'll be heating the house.

hometruths

Dtp1979 wrote: »

If you've free fuel then don't waste money on oil or gas. Install a solid fuel boiler that doesn't require a buffer tank. Do not put this on a sealed system. I'd link this to a solid fuel boiler inside, so whichever one you've lighting you'll be heating the house.

Thanks for reply. Do you mean I can have a system with a boiler stove in lounge and log boiler in utility room/wherever linked so log boiler will provide slow burn morning back up?

If so that would be ideal, though pricey I guess. If money is tight presumably it would be easy enough to add the log boiler later? (Assuming a certain amount of preplanning re pipes etc)

hometruths

Any recommendations of boiler stoves that can handle 14 rads?

hometruths

Just seen stoves thread and mod post, apologies, perhaps I should take this over there!

antoinolachtnai

Solid fuel is very awkward to move around and takes a lot of space to store. Oil is easy to move around because it can be delivered into a fairly confined space through a flexible rubber pipe. A tank of oil contains a massive amount more energy than the equivalent volume of solid fuel. (Piped gas has broadly similar benefits, if it's available.)

Solid fuel also entails cleaning and disposal costs. Solid fuel boilers may have maintenance issues. How much will your labour costs be for the wood? Can you cut and process and transport 20 kg of firewood in an hour of labour? That will have you 70 kWh of energy, if you do a good job of the drying. €8.50 (minimum hourly wage) would buy you 13 litres or so of oil delivered to your tank, which would give you about 130 kWh

You can get a tank that will a feed from both an oil boiler and your solar panel. Chances are the tank you have already may do this. Solid fuel is a bit more complicated.

I would evaluate the transport, cleaning and storage issues past your missus before you make any final decision! But bear in mind that hooshing around barrels of oil or bags of solid fuel may not be an appealing prospect for her.

I think that having the system primarily run on oil, with the stove(s) providing some extra heat on the coldest days will be the least expensive and most effective way to do this.

Ultimately there is no cheap way to heat an old detached house of that size. To find out just how expensive it is going to be, you need to bring in a professional and get him to give you a written evaluation of what you need. The size of boiler required isn't really determined by the number of radiators. It is determined by the volume, surface area and insulation of the house. I would have to say that they would have to be damned big radiators, or the house would have to be damned well insulated for 14 radiators to be enough in a detached building of that size.

hometruths

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Solid fuel is very awkward to move around and takes a lot of space to store. Oil is easy to move around because it can be delivered into a fairly confined space through a flexible rubber pipe. A tank of oil contains a massive amount more energy than the equivalent volume of solid fuel. (Piped gas has broadly similar benefits, if it's available.)

Solid fuel also entails cleaning and disposal costs. Solid fuel boilers may have maintenance issues. How much will your labour costs be for the wood? Can you cut and process and transport 20 kg of firewood in an hour of labour? That will have you 70 kWh of energy, if you do a good job of the drying. €8.50 (minimum hourly wage) would buy you 13 litres or so of oil delivered to your tank, which would give you about 130 kWh

You can get a tank that will a feed from both an oil boiler and your solar panel. Chances are the tank you have already may do this. Solid fuel is a bit more complicated.

I would evaluate the transport, cleaning and storage issues past your missus before you make any final decision! But bear in mind that hooshing around barrels of oil or bags of solid fuel may not be an appealing prospect for her.

I think that having the system primarily run on oil, with the stove(s) providing some extra heat on the coldest days will be the least expensive and most effective way to do this.

Ultimately there is no cheap way to heat an old detached house of that size. To find out just how expensive it is going to be, you need to bring in a professional and get him to give you a written evaluation of what you need. The size of boiler required isn't really determined by the number of radiators. It is determined by the volume, surface area and insulation of the house. I would have to say that they would have to be damned big radiators, or the house would have to be damned well insulated for 14 radiators to be enough in a detached building of that size.

I get what you're saying but since I have no lack of timber and plenty of space to store it makes sense.

And no matter how flexible the rubber hose is oil, my house is about 900 metres from the nearest public road which is really a boreen that is too small for an oil delivery lorry.

As much as I'd like to consider oil, if I can't get it to the house it's out!

antoinolachtnai

Apparently there are special 'baby tankers' , small oil delivery lorries, so I would look at that option.

https://www.moroil.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=81&Itemid=523

If you can improve the road a bit, it might make the rest of your works a lot cheaper. Transport is going to be a big extra cost when you are doing up the house.

It will also make wintering in the property a lot easier. I would be inclined to invest in the access ahead of the insulation but it's a matter of choice.

Wearb

I see two slightly different options on my travels.
One is where there are about 6 houses on top of a hill with a narrow and very twisty road. I don't even know what can be done if a fire engine is needed . Anyway they bought a bowser complete with pump between them. You could also hire or borrow one.

Other option is where the customer permantly mounted a tank on a car trailer and connected to the tank with a short flexible hose after returning with each fill. Deliver was made to parked trailer at top of lane.
Maybe none of these any use to you.