Another motorhome "aire" bites the dust.

campingcarist

I was in Tramore last weekend parked near Splash World. The council are erecting height barriers on the short road leading into Splash World where many motorhomes park. There were about 12 over the weekend and earlier on in the week there were 5 French motorhomes there.

It appears that the owner of one of the camp sites in the town is also on some committee that help to have the height barriers erected.

It really is unbelievable the expense that councils will go to, to prevent people coming to enjoy themselves and spend money in the town.

browniepoints

Yes it is nearly always there some person with camping site in the region that thinks if they stop the free camp site place they will go to thier camping site

Rarely works if they cant get free camping they ont go there at all and more of them now go countries like western or middle Spain or Morocco where there are still many free camping sites .
Eastern coast Spain there is less free camping for camping cars

I once even saw the camp site owner call the cops to complain about the camper cars on the main square of the town where free camping was tolerated . The next day they all got thrown off but non came to that camping

I even had my normal SUV car decked out for sleeping in
One time was camping in parked on the coast in town beside the sea near to where i had some short contract work .
There was no signs to say squat pay for parking whatever not even the typical no overnight camping . Stayed there several weeks no problem
The Summer Season eventually started and cops came and told me 24 hours maxim or they would tow the car .The majority the cars beside me rarely moved . Moved away inland few blocks and no problems .
it seems that coastal parking is exclusive to the local mafia who own the apartments beside the beach .

Free camping is getting harder so Turkey Morroco and similar seem to be winning the trade .

Off to Germany soon to buy a small camper car from my German mate and leave quickly as Germany is too expensive .

Jed

Irishgoatman

campingcarist wrote: »

I was in Tramore last weekend parked near Splash World. The council are erecting height barriers on the short road leading into Splash World where many motorhomes park. There were about 12 over the weekend and earlier on in the week there were 5 French motorhomes there.

It appears that the owner of one of the camp sites in the town is also on some committee that help to have the height barriers erected.

It really is unbelievable the expense that councils will go to, to prevent people coming to enjoy themselves and spend money in the town.

One problem with trying to get councils to change their attitude towards campervans/motorhomes is the fact that councillors only listen to their own potential voters and very few of us want or need to use carparks in our own towns/counties. Councillors in Cork are unlikely to take notice of a complaint from me in Mayo.

What makes businesses think that if they put barriers in our way we will take our campers back home, park them on the drive and turn round and get the train/bus/car back to their area.

Perhaps what is needed is if we hear of barriers going up locally then get on to your local councillor, remind him/her that he/she might need your vote at some time. Also are the various Motorhome clubs doing anything?.

Pjwal

I stayed in the campsite in tramore once, it was a terrible experience and I'll never stay there again, if we can't park by splash world then we'll be bypassing tramore altogether , which is a shame as the whole family love the place, and we went there for an extra long weekend every year. And always spent a lot of money there, including in splash world.

*Kol*

Unfortunately MH people and others are not spending enough money to make a difference. Therefore it's not viable to create a separate facility for them. It's the same for plenty of other places in Ireland. The basic fact is that for the space occupied it is not worth the return.

campingcarist

*Kol* wrote: »

Unfortunately MH people and others are not spending enough money to make a difference. Therefore it's not viable to create a separate facility for them. It's the same for plenty of other places in Ireland. The basic fact is that for the space occupied it is not worth the return.

It seems to work in France. Even smaller places than Tramore have an Aire and many for free, some with facilities such as water, disposal of grey waste and provision for disposal of black waste (or should that be brown waste?).

madmotors

well said

*Kol*

campingcarist wrote: »

It seems to work in France. Even smaller places than Tramore have an Aire and many for free, some with facilities such as water, disposal of grey waste and provision for disposal of black waste (or should that be brown waste?).

yes it does work in France. I am not sure if it's to do with the amount of MH's/more all year round use/more tourists/bigger % of French MH users avail of aires rather than sites....?? I would love to see them here too but it is probably more difficult to make a case for them here than in France for some of the reasons above. It would be really nice to be able to park up in a small village for the night. There is an opening there for enterprising shop keepers/pub owners in rural Ireland to get in on the action. We could be waiting a long time for those in elected office to do anything.

Benbecul97

*Kol* wrote: »

yes it does work in France. I am not sure if it's to do with the amount of MH's/more all year round use/more tourists/bigger % of French MH users avail of aires rather than sites....?? I would love to see them here too but it is probably more difficult to make a case for them here than in France for some of the reasons above. It would be really nice to be able to park up in a small village for the night. There is an opening there for enterprising shop keepers/pub owners in rural Ireland to get in on the action. We could be waiting a long time for those in elected office to do anything.

Couldn't agree more!

niloc1951

*Kol* wrote: »

yes it does work in France. I am not sure if it's to do with the amount of MH's/more all year round use/more tourists/bigger % of French MH users avail of aires rather than sites....?? I would love to see them here too but it is probably more difficult to make a case for them here than in France for some of the reasons above. It would be really nice to be able to park up in a small village for the night. There is an opening there for enterprising shop keepers/pub owners in rural Ireland to get in on the action. We could be waiting a long time for those in elected office to do anything.

Yes it does work in France (and elsewhere in Europe), but why

The problem here is that so many people confuse free/wild camping with parking, there are those who use motorhomes who make the mistake innocently and there are those who want to see us confined to caravan and camping parks who do it maliciously.
What is provided in France is parking, however, camping free or otherwise is usually prohibited other than in caravan and camping parks.
The places known as Aires given their full title are Aire Stationnement pour Camping-car which literally means A Parking Area for Motor Caravans. The clue is in the title PARKING AREA, there is no mention of camping.

Here at home Cobh is a good example of a council providing a parking area and as such it is not in competition with any caravan and camping parks in the vicinity.

Is Splash World a private enterprise or is it Council owned ?.
If it's not a council owned enterprise the owner is quite within his rights to allow any category of vehicle he chooses to park in his car park and unless there is a condition in the planning permission which states that motor caravans may not park there the Council can go whistle.
This is what happened in the Galway Harbour Company verses Galway City Council situation last autumn when the City Council had to back down and reverse its demand that the Harbour Company stop allowing motorhomes park in its car park. There are other similar examples too.

Referring to parking a motorhome in a place where vehicle parking is permitted as free camping or wild camping is giving ammunition to those who seek to ban the over night parking of motorhomes other than in caravan and camping parks and needs to be stopped.
A motorhome PARKED is not CAMPED unless there is some external activity e.g. cooking or dining or occupancy the space with furniture or equipment of any kind associated with what might be done on a pitch in a caravan and camping park.
What a person does inside their vehicle can be of no concern to anyone, unless it is offensive to the general public.
An example might be loud music (disturbance of the peace), sexual activity with the blinds open (offensive to public morality).
However, cooking, eating, watching tv, reading a book, or sleeping cannot be deemed an offensive activity and therefore is not open to sanction.

The ongoing campaign for the creation of designated motorhome parking areas and the cessation of harassment of those who park in ordinary parking places is having some success as some councils and others are beginning to accept that motorhomes, being motor vehicles, are entitled to use the road (which includes car parks).
It is also beginning to be understood that motor caravans cannot be discriminated against and denied access to sections of the road based solely on the category of vehicle they fall into.

However, it must be accepted that occupying a parking space and using it as a camping pitch is in no ones interest.

Finally, from http://www.all-the-aires.com/,
Rules vary slightly from country to country but predominantly only motorhomes can use the motorhome stopovers. The law only permits 'Self Contained' motorhomes to be parked responsibly and their users to cook and sleep within them. A self-contained motorhome needs to have a toilet, water container for both fresh and waste water attached to or inside the vehicle, and you must be able to cook and sleep inside the vehicle. The law does not allow for camping, for example winding out awnings and putting out tables and chairs, or erecting a tent. If you want to camp, use a campsite.

Nivekork

Thanks once again niloc for a concise definition of parking versus camping.
Just one point though - in relation to the right to park you say that:

"the owner is quite within his rights to allow any category of vehicle he chooses to park in his car parked and unless there is a condition in the planning permission which states that water caravans may not park there"

I just wonder what grounds/regulations/laws a council could use, besides safety, to justify including a condition in a planning permission preventing motor caravans from using a parking area since they are, as you say, private vehicles and cannot be discriminated against.

Or is it simply that they just assume they have the power, as seemed to have happened in Galway.

Irishgoatman

Nivekork wrote: »

Thanks once again niloc for a concise definition of parking versus camping.
Just one point though - in relation to the right to park you say that:

"the owner is quite within his rights to allow any category of vehicle he chooses to park in his car parked and unless there is a condition in the planning permission which states that water caravans may not park there"

I just wonder what grounds/regulations/laws a council could use, besides safety, to justify including a condition in a planning permission preventing motor caravans from using a parking area since they are, as you say, private vehicles and cannot be discriminated against.

Or is it simply that they just assume they have the power, as seemed to have happened in Galway.

I suspect that your last sentence says it all :mad:.

niloc1951

Nivekork wrote: »

Thanks once again niloc for a concise definition of parking versus camping.
Just one point though - in relation to the right to park you say that:

"the owner is quite within his rights to allow any category of vehicle he chooses to park in his car parked and unless there is a condition in the planning permission which states that water caravans may not park there"

I just wonder what grounds/regulations/laws a council could use, besides safety, to justify including a condition in a planning permission preventing motor caravans from using a parking area since they are, as you say, private vehicles and cannot be discriminated against.

Or is it simply that they just assume they have the power, as seemed to have happened in Galway.

It would appear that the Councils wrongly assume they have the power and the Galway situation provoked the first test of that assumption.
If they did in fact have the power under planning regulations we would not have seen the U-turn in Galway.

The old chestnut of using legislation enacted to control 'temporary dwellings' is also very weak and if tested would go the way of the 'no planning permission' argument. It would make my day if some official tried moving me on using that argument.
It's interesting that no one seems to have been charged under that legislation, roll on the first test case.

*Kol*

The real issue is well put in the last sentence of Nilocs's first post. "The law does not allow for camping, for example winding out awnings and putting out tables and chairs, or erecting a tent. If you want to camp, use a campsite."

There is always somebody who will ignore this and taint the rest of the people who are parking. It makes it very difficult to lobby for parking areas when their intent is not respected.