New JC English books/Pressure from reps

wtd2008

Hi,

We have had a few of the book reps in during the last few days selling their wares. Obviously they are pushing their books for the new JC English, but two of them said something that kind of got us worried.

According to them about 80% of schools have already more or less adapted the new syllabus and are more or less teaching it. Another one said that we were the only school she had been to that had not made any changes.

Now, as far as I was aware we were not to engage with the new syllabus and keep on doing as we always did. One colleague told me that she knows of a school that even has the Year Plan etc done incorporating the new syllabus starting in Sept.


I know the reps are just selling their wares but it got me thinking, how many schools are in our position and have stuck to their guns? As far as I am concerned we are shooting ourselves in the foot if we start teaching the new course until this is all sorted with the powers that be. What is the consensus?

Sorry for the long post,

W.

Jamfa

wtd2008 wrote: »

Hi,

We have had a few of the book reps in during the last few days selling their wares. Obviously they are pushing their books for the new JC English, but two of them said something that kind of got us worried.

According to them about 80% of schools have already more or less adapted the new syllabus and are more or less teaching it. Another one said that we were the only school she had been to that had not made any changes.

Now, as far as I was aware we were not to engage with the new syllabus and keep on doing as we always did. One colleague told me that she knows of a school that even has the Year Plan etc done incorporating the new syllabus starting in Sept.


I know the reps are just selling their wares but it got me thinking, how many schools are in our position and have stuck to their guns? As far as I am concerned we are shooting ourselves in the foot if we start teaching the new course until this is all sorted with the powers that be. What is the consensus?

Sorry for the long post,

W.

The Union directive relates to planning meetings and CPD as to not teach the new syllabus would mean you are in breach of contract or on strike I suppose. Below is what the Unions have directed their members to do;
"Does the Directive prohibit English teachers from teaching the new Framework syllabus?
The Framework for Junior Cycle English syllabus will be implemented for first year students in September 2014. The ASTI Directive does not prohibit teachers from teaching the syllabus/ specifications prescribed by the Department for first year English students from September 2014."

Terri26

It's a bit of a grey area about teaching the syllabus but technically we are supposed to teach the syllabus but not plan etc. First Year really doesn't matter it's second year that will count. Anyway it's nonsense 80% have taken the new books. I feel if we buy special books for new JC it's like admitting defeat. Educate.ie are especially pushing the lie/angle and I've considered pulling using their books at all because of it. What are doing is using same textbook but will adjust if needs be. Ed Co give a teaching workbook for old book which can be used to incorporate new syllabus. We have to be seen as not engaging as much as possible in my opinion

rainbowtrout

Reps will say absolutely anything to get a sale.
Do what you think is right for yourself/your subject/your school and not based on what a rep tells you.

petejmk

Same 80% figure thrown out by a rep in our place last September. Absolute nonsense.

Jamfa

petejmk wrote: »

Same 80% figure thrown out by a rep in our place last September. Absolute nonsense.

All publishers are private businesses so the rep is basically a salesperson trying to make a sale. I've only ever used a text book with first years as they're overpriced and restrict creativity. The unions are calling for a deferrnent of the school based tasks but not the syllabus. If the new syllabus continues the final exam will be very different to the current junior cert so not following it might cause us problems in our schools. The unions will say we never told you not to teach it and the DES will say we offered CPD etc so English teachers will need to be careful.

wtd2008

Thanks for the replies. It really seems like a grey area. We have been using the same book for the last few years anyway and it could do with an upgrade.

Obviously the reps have monthly targets etc. so they are pushing their books but my gut reaction was to resist while all this was getting sorted. Now we find ourselves at the end of the year with no real clarification.

Some colleagues want to start with a new book anyway so it could be the compromise.

Just wanted to test the water to see if others were feeling the pressure from the companies.

Thanks.

acequion

wtd2008 wrote: »

Hi,

We have had a few of the book reps in during the last few days selling their wares. Obviously they are pushing their books for the new JC English, but two of them said something that kind of got us worried.

According to them about 80% of schools have already more or less adapted the new syllabus and are more or less teaching it. Another one said that we were the only school she had been to that had not made any changes.

Now, as far as I was aware we were not to engage with the new syllabus and keep on doing as we always did. One colleague told me that she knows of a school that even has the Year Plan etc done incorporating the new syllabus starting in Sept.


I know the reps are just selling their wares but it got me thinking, how many schools are in our position and have stuck to their guns? As far as I am concerned we are shooting ourselves in the foot if we start teaching the new course until this is all sorted with the powers that be. What is the consensus?

Sorry for the long post,

W.

You are spot on re the bit emboldened above.Don't listen to the sales pitch of the book companies, they are just doing what all salespeople do. I wish we teachers had a bit of their ballsy attitude.What you say about a school having already made out a plan for the new course is an insult to those of us who twice walked the picket lines this year and took the hit on our already hard pressed pockets.

Regarding books,I would hold tough until we see what will happen next year. In my school we have taught first year as we've always done using the old texts. I certainly wouldn't get worked up about this "breach of contract" nonsense. Given the widespread opposition to the new JC, I doubt very much that anybody will be getting into trouble about what books and methodologies they are using this side of a resolution.

Jamfa

acequion wrote: »

You are spot on re the bit emboldened above.Don't listen to the sales pitch of the book companies, they are just doing what all salespeople do. I wish we teachers had a bit of their ballsy attitude.What you say about a school having already made out a plan for the new course is an insult to those of us who twice walked the picket lines this year and took the hit on our already hard pressed pockets.

Regarding books,I would hold tough until we see what will happen next year. In my school we have taught first year as we've always done using the old texts. I certainly wouldn't get worked up about this "breach of contract" nonsense. Given the widespread opposition to the new JC, I doubt very much that anybody will be getting into trouble about what books and methodologies they are using this side of a resolution.

What happens about choosing texts? The unions haven't directed us to not follow the new syllabus so do we not need to be a little careful that we don't end up preparing students for the wrong exam.

acequion

Jamfa wrote: »

What happens about choosing texts? The unions haven't directed us to not follow the new syllabus so do we not need to be a little careful that we don't end up preparing students for the wrong exam.

No we don't Jamfa.We are professionals, we know how to educate our students.As for the exam,we wait for the dispute to be resolved before we choose texts and before we direct our students to an exam. This dispute has enormously far reaching consequences so it pays to be patient and in the meantime continue to do what we do best.

implausible

I posted on this before and got eaten, but here's my two cents: we have been instructed not to attend CPD and not to comply with assessment. Technically the new syllabus is in and in my school and 5 others in my ETB, our plans reflect this and we have been using a new book. Bar some added emphasis on oral language though, it's business as usual.

We had the reps in the last week, but will not be ordering a book until next year when we know what the story is. I didn't order the current book until September 14 either, hoping the circular wouldn't come out but come out it did.

A poll on this would be interesting i.e. is your school using a new English book for first years?

RH149

We're teaching the new syllabus as we could be fired for breach of contract if we don't do our job....(maybe that would never happen but who knows?) What we aren't doing is exactly what we were told not to do. We haven't attended in-service, don't meet about it (we have other Croke Park English meetings where we discuss everything but First Years), we have no scheme of work but are all sort of doing things we always did with first years but emphasizing different skills......at least I think that's what we're doing as we're not meeting to discuss any of it. We never chose a book last year and are getting the same hard sell from the reps again this year but just smiling, taking the sample books they give and adding them to the pile'to be discussed later'....whenever later is? We haven't assessed in any new way so no oral tests or portfolio work and I imagine our Summer exam for First Year will be similar to what we always gave.

To be honest its a huge pain in the neck, being chained to the photocopier using old texts but trying to teach them in a different way and not really knowing which direction we're going in but its the way it has to be until the powers that be sort this out. It would be very easy to make life easier and chose a book, do CPD and cave in to to pressure but ten years down the road when we ask ourselves how we ended up assessing our own students for JC and drowning under more paperwork I don't want the answer to be because we couldn't put up with the hassle at the time...we need to stick to our convictions on this.

(With regard to the education.ie rep who came to us- he listed all the many schools who had adopted their book, including my sister in law's school in a neighbouring county....it took one text to enquire and confirm that this was not the case. I disregarded everything he said after that.)

Jamfa

RH149 wrote: »

We're teaching the new syllabus as we could be fired for breach of contract if we don't do our job....(maybe that would never happen but who knows?) What we aren't doing is exactly what we were told not to do. We haven't attended in-service, don't meet about it (we have other Croke Park English meetings where we discuss everything but First Years), we have no scheme of work but are all sort of doing things we always did with first years but emphasizing different skills......at least I think that's what we're doing as we're not meeting to discuss any of it. We never chose a book last year and are getting the same hard sell from the reps again this year but just smiling, taking the sample books they give and adding them to the pile'to be discussed later'....whenever later is? We haven't assessed in any new way so no oral tests or portfolio work and I imagine our Summer exam for First Year will be similar to what we always gave.

To be honest its a huge pain in the neck, being chained to the photocopier using old texts but trying to teach them in a different way and not really knowing which direction we're going in but its the way it has to be until the powers that be sort this out. It would be very easy to make life easier and chose a book, do CPD and cave in to to pressure but ten years down the road when we ask ourselves how we ended up assessing our own students for JC and drowning under more paperwork I don't want the answer to be because we couldn't put up with the hassle at the time...we need to stick to our convictions on this.

(With regard to the education.ie rep who came to us- he listed all the many schools who had adopted their book, including my sister in law's school in a neighbouring county....it took one text to enquire and confirm that this was not the case. I disregarded everything he said after that.)

At least the exam is now separate to any school based assessments and will be set and marked externally by the SEC. The state cert will only have this result on it so advice and guidance about how to prepare students for this exam would be useful.

BanjoBill

RH149 wrote: »

(With regard to the education.ie rep who came to us- he listed all the many schools who had adopted their book, including my sister in law's school in a neighbouring county....it took one text to enquire and confirm that this was not the case. I disregarded everything he said after that.)

We don't listen to educate.ie rep and dropped their book - makes my blood boil.

acequion

RH149 wrote: »

We're teaching the new syllabus as we could be fired for breach of contract if we don't do our job....(maybe that would never happen but who knows?) What we aren't doing is exactly what we were told not to do. We haven't attended in-service, don't meet about it (we have other Croke Park English meetings where we discuss everything but First Years), we have no scheme of work but are all sort of doing things we always did with first years but emphasizing different skills......at least I think that's what we're doing as we're not meeting to discuss any of it. We never chose a book last year and are getting the same hard sell from the reps again this year but just smiling, taking the sample books they give and adding them to the pile'to be discussed later'....whenever later is? We haven't assessed in any new way so no oral tests or portfolio work and I imagine our Summer exam for First Year will be similar to what we always gave.

To be honest its a huge pain in the neck, being chained to the photocopier using old texts but trying to teach them in a different way and not really knowing which direction we're going in but its the way it has to be until the powers that be sort this out. It would be very easy to make life easier and chose a book, do CPD and cave in to to pressure but ten years down the road when we ask ourselves how we ended up assessing our own students for JC and drowning under more paperwork I don't want the answer to be because we couldn't put up with the hassle at the time...we need to stick to our convictions on this.

(With regard to the education.ie rep who came to us- he listed all the many schools who had adopted their book, including my sister in law's school in a neighbouring county....it took one text to enquire and confirm that this was not the case. I disregarded everything he said after that.)

Why is it such a pain in the neck and why are you chained to the photocopier? The only way the study of English can change is by studying different texts. English is still language,literature and oral skills.A good English teacher has always incorporated those skills into his/her teaching irrespective of syllabus. Fancy buzzwords such as learning outcomes etc doesn't change that and never will. Where first year is concerned,English can be taught through any text or even with no text.

I find it hard to understand how you could seriously be worried about being fired but am relieved to hear that you are following the union directive. Who knows what will happen but in the meantime the most important thing is to continue to teach our students the subject of English. A good teacher will be able to prepare his /her class for an exam when we know precisely what that exam will be.

jm1964

Nobody will be fired for not teaching the new syllabus. Hopefully the powers that be will sort this out sooner rather than later. The sales reps are under pressure to sell books and its unfair to take our anger out on them. Our grievance is with the Dept. of Education.

RH149

acequion wrote: »

Why is it such a pain in the neck and why are you chained to the photocopier? The only way the study of English can change is by studying different texts. English is still language,literature and oral skills.A good English teacher has always incorporated those skills into his/her teaching irrespective of syllabus. Fancy buzzwords such as learning outcomes etc doesn't change that and never will. Where first year is concerned,English can be taught through any text or even with no text.

I find it hard to understand how you could seriously be worried about being fired but am relieved to hear that you are following the union directive. Who knows what will happen but in the meantime the most important thing is to continue to teach our students the subject of English. A good teacher will be able to prepare his /her class for an exam when we know precisely what that exam will be.

Well of course we're using different texts as we always have done and we've read a few novels this year but having to photocopy every text/poem/drama extract etc because they don't have a core text book is a pain.Not the end of the world, no, but the days of having free time in your free periods for extra photocopying is long gone. If you have full hours and a post and have to spend any free periods not eaten up with S&S on the phone to parents chasing up absent students or arranging matches/booking buses for matches you appreciate small things like a First Year text book!

In class I use the data projector as much as possible especially for media texts and poetry and while I would always dip in and out of various textbooks for those, having a textbook for assigning homework and leaving work for classes when away with teams or other class trips just makes a busy school day easier. Some students keep all their handouts neatly in folders but just as many of our lads drop them on the floor on the way out or pull crumpled messes out of their bags the next day-when I see that I curse not having a book. Apart from that, as much as students and parents complain about the cost of buying text books (we don't have book rental), they complain just as much when they don't have one.

Jamfa

acequion wrote: »

Why is it such a pain in the neck and why are you chained to the photocopier? The only way the study of English can change is by studying different texts. English is still language,literature and oral skills.A good English teacher has always incorporated those skills into his/her teaching irrespective of syllabus. Fancy buzzwords such as learning outcomes etc doesn't change that and never will. Where first year is concerned,English can be taught through any text or even with no text.

I find it hard to understand how you could seriously be worried about being fired but am relieved to hear that you are following the union directive. Who knows what will happen but in the meantime the most important thing is to continue to teach our students the subject of English. A good teacher will be able to prepare his /her class for an exam when we know precisely what that exam will be.

The exam is to be based on the learning outcomes isn't it but you achieve them through texts etc so you're probably right. I suppose if the focus isn't on exam papers and exam prep a lot more texts and literature can be covered.

acequion

RH149 wrote: »

Well of course we're using different texts as we always have done and we've read a few novels this year but having to photocopy every text/poem/drama extract etc because they don't have a core text book is a pain.Not the end of the world, no, but the days of having free time in your free periods for extra photocopying is long gone. If you have full hours and a post and have to spend any free periods not eaten up with S&S on the phone to parents chasing up absent students or arranging matches/booking buses for matches you appreciate small things like a First Year text book!

In class I use the data projector as much as possible especially for media texts and poetry and while I would always dip in and out of various textbooks for those, having a textbook for assigning homework and leaving work for classes when away with teams or other class trips just makes a busy school day easier. Some students keep all their handouts neatly in folders but just as many of our lads drop them on the floor on the way out or pull crumpled messes out of their bags the next day-when I see that I curse not having a book. Apart from that, as much as students and parents complain about the cost of buying text books (we don't have book rental), they complain just as much when they don't have one.

Completely agree re the hassles of not having a core text,but why did you not just stick to the one you always used? That's what we did and it's been business as usual. I personally have no problem not teaching a course that has been foisted on teachers against our will and completely without our input. And until this issue is resolved,hopefully to our reasonable satisfaction,I am perfectly happy to do what I've always done.