Genuinely Unsure Why I Have Never Had a Girlfriend

LegacyUser

Hi,

I am a man from Dublin in my early/mid twenties and have never had a girlfriend, nor have I had sexual contact. I understand this is not an uncommon issue; after all, I have surfed the web to find discussions of this topic that have happened on fora in the past. However, I have not been able to find insight into my own case; the vast majority of threads I have read have pertained to the experiences of people who have had issues with shyness, loneliness, low self-esteem and other issues. In that sense, the obstacle there is much easier to diagnose. In my case however, I have never had any of these issues, and so my lack of romantic and sexual contact is not so easy to understand. Now, I wouldn't say I'm bothered by any of this; I understand you don't need relationships to lead a content life. Nonetheless, it would be a pity if I didn't at least try to have a sex life.

I will elaborate slightly; I am confident and outgoing and not afraid to take the initiative in conversation. I give treat others with the respect they deserve and I am respected by my peers. I take good care of my health and appearance. I am socially aware of norms of ettiquette and I endeavour to act with social grace. I have a healthy and diverse set of friendships. Essentially, I have "a clean bill of mental and emotional health". Yet I have never been involved sexually with a woman, never mind romantically involved, and I genuinely don't know why.

I have had a few thoughts on why my non-platonic life is so non-existent. One is that I don't drink in the same way other Irish people do. I drink for taste, not to get hammered, and normally one glass of wine will do me for the evening. Anecdotally, I have observed that from secondary school through to university, a sizable proportion of my friends' hook-ups have come from being drunk. I suspect the lack of inhibition that comes with drunkenness may play a part.

Another thought is that getting to know Irish women is often easier said than done; I do find many women attractive, and I do give them due consideration; some of them I develop a more substantial interest in them. However, the recurring issue is that men tend to be more responsive to my efforts to bond socially than women. This does not apply to all women I know, as I do have many female friends; however, it does apply to a frustratingly high number of women I find attractive. One might suggest that my body language is betraying my interest and that they are pulling back to avoid leading me on; however, I am generally quite subtle about these things, so I consider that implausible.

I have spoken to a few closer friends about this to understand if perhaps I missed a trick; the main thought that has come out is that in Ireland, people of university age either hook up drunk and continue sober because the precedent is set, or they spend a considerable amount of time awkwardly wondering if the other is interested in them and eventually just stumbling into a relationship. Whether this is true or not is another question, but I do suspect this is a somewhat Irish phenomenon. However, the point is this: if I were shy or had very little experience of talking to women, I would at least know what the options are because it's a common problem. It's the fact that I have no problem making friends and have many friends of both genders that makes my lack of romantic attachment genuinely puzzling to me.

A few questions I would like to put to the floor; do you think the impression I mentioned above is true? Do you have any experience of scoring/forming a relationship sober? Might a bit of casual scoring on a night out be worth a shot after having consumed a reasonable bit of alcohol? Maybe I have missed something and the remedy is something else entirely? My problem is that I ultimately have no experience of hooking up with the opposite sex, so I don't know how it's supposed to work. I accept that there is a certain amount of trial and error involved, but going in completely uninformed of what to expect would be a bad idea. Your advice and experience might at least be able to inform how I approach the question in future. Thanks.

kylith

Not to be facetious, but I don't see any mention of you having actually asked any women out? Have you tried identifying a woman in a social group that you would like to know better and actually asking her on a date? You can be as confident and socially aware as all get out, but unless you actually say to someone 'would you like to go out with me?' it's unlikely to get you anywhere.

If you have then maybe you could ask some of your female friends where you're going wrong.

pookie82

As the above poster said, have you ever actually asked anyone OUT? You seem to be waiting on a drunken hook up to kick start things.

Have you ever given internet dating a try? It gets a bad rap for being mostly centered on casual hooks ups, but it's still a means by which you can chat to someone you find attractive, ask them to meet for a drink and take it from there.

It's not all about sitting in a pub waiting for a chance to go in for the kill!

pookie82

As the above poster said, have you ever actually asked anyone OUT? You seem to be waiting on a drunken hook up to kick start things.

Have you ever given internet dating a try? It gets a bad rap for being mostly centered on casual hooks ups, but it's still a means by which you can chat to someone you find attractive, ask them to meet for a drink and take it from there.

It's not all about sitting in a pub waiting for a chance to go in for the kill!

milli milli

Hi OP

I may have gotten this wrong but from reading your post and I mean this with the greatest of respect - you come across as quite serious. And I don't mean about having the one drink. But do you have a bit of craic when you go out and let your hair down?
Girls want someone to have a bit of fun with (as well as have great conversations, etc). And maybe you're giving off this serious, no craic vibe?
You're young and things should be light and fun.
Forgive me if I'm off the mark.

kjl

I think it's a confidence issue rather than a not being drunk issues.

I don't drink and it hasn't affected my ability to meet women.

My non drinking guide to meeting women, is to still go out but meet them earlier in the night. Get a good conversation going for maybe 10-15 min, get their number and leave. This way you are more like a brief interlude in the night, call them the following week on a Tuesday or Wednesday and ask them out on a date. If they have given you their number, it's pretty likely they will go on a date with you. I have had a 100% success rate with this approach.

What's good about doing it this way is that you stand out from the 100's of drunk guys that come onto them during the night, when she wakes up the next morning she will forget all of them but remember and even be looking forward to hearing from you.

strobe

A couple of thoughts.

Ask any barman that works late shifts if they have any trouble getting women that come into the bar into bed.
It's not the fact you don't go out and get wasted.

Secondly, you talk a lot about being highly respectful, and endeavouring to form social bonds with women. And that's all well and good. Fair play. But that's how you go about making friends, not how you get women to ride ye.

There's also such a thing as being too subtle. Make your intentions clear. Throw your hat in the ring.

Also if you have any male friends that are successful with women. Ask their advice. They'll be happy to give it. They are the ones more than anyone else that will be able to point you in the right direction. They're the ones to ask.

Start an account on tinder too. In half an hour you can make initial contact with 20 women who you already know find you attractive and are close by to you. You'd be mad not to.

LegacyUser

In response to those who asked if I have asked anyone out - yes, I have, albeit not very frequently. Now maybe it's something to do with the fact I'm university age as are my friends, but I have asked the advice of friends who have experience, and anyone I've spoken to about this says that just asking someone out is not quite as effective an approach in Ireland as you see on the American TV shows. The drunken hook-up is certainly the most common method amongst my friends, and isn't something I particularly go for - yet somehow, a poster on this thread thinks that that's what I'm secretly hoping for!

Anyway, to cut to the chase, I'm not lacking confidence or just waiting for something happen, as has been hinted in a couple of posts. I'm just unsure of what to do to hook up with someone. In that sense, I am looking for sheerly practical advice, because that will allow me to take the initiative. kjl provided a helpful suggestion, and it sounds sensible. I will try it the next time I'm out.

I don't intend to come across as serious milli milli, but I think that's probably inevitable when you post a thread on the personal issues forum. I do have a sense of humour and like to have some fun on a night out, but maybe the tone of my post conceals that.

Roselm

I agree that you sound very serious.You sound like you are giving a work presentation or writing a report.Your choice of words is very precise and official. You sound very analytical and not like someone who can let their hair down and have fun. Like someone said, have the craic, go with the flow. Don't approach this one like a business arrangement!

Sleepy

numbertwentythree wrote: »

In response to those who asked if I have asked anyone out - yes, I have, albeit not very frequently.

And what happened? Did you take any of them on a date? Or were you rejected by all of them?

My best sober success with women in college came from simply paying attention to them, if she's wearing a band t-shirt and you know they're playing ask is she going to the gig and if not, would she like to go with you, discuss movies you're interested in and if she expresses interest in any of them, invite her to come see it with you etc.

gsi300024v

Online dating, go for it, okcupid you can answer lots of questions so you'll then be able to see people similar to yourself, if you've not had a date you might not be great on them, so get some practice, like everything else, how to be good on a date can be learnt.
Don't read too much into the actual dates, just try have a good time and see what happens. You don't want to show your mind set of, I need to get a date to go well so it'll lead to sex so I can see what it's like.
You don't seem overly motivated to date.
What springs to mind for you when you think about having sex or a GF in your life?

shaymus27

You sound like an intellectual person.

Getting drunk, being flirtatious and pursuing a woman hasn't been your thing so far. Why not try doing it once. You might find you come out of yourself from a flirty point of view and maybe you may be more attractive to women if you show a bit more sexual personality.

University isn't always great for meeting women if it turns out the women surrounding you just aren't your type.

You might ask a woman who is a good friend why they think you have not met anyone. Tell them to be honest as you would like their help. Ask them not to tell anyone you asked them for advice if you wish.

You seem like an intellectual and most women at university at that age prefer the jocks so you may need to seek out your fellow intellectuals. Are there societies or clubs or organisations where you might meet someone similar?

The work place can bring together people of similar attitudes so you will definitely meet women similar to you at some stage.

Saralee4

I think that your friends advice about asking 'irish' women out is wrong.

Being asked out traditionally by a man these days is rare. It makes a man stand out. A woman might say no if you ask her out. She might get a shock because not many men do it anymore or she might not have even thought about you before. When you flatter someone, they start to see qualities in you that they like.

Most men don't ask women out properly. A lot of men do drunkenly come onto women and that sometimes works.

The trick to actually asking women out is that you have to be careful because it is a thin line between seeming interested or needy. You need to be able to handle rejection well. If you ask a woman out and she says no, you can't act like a child and be mean or take it as an insult. You have to take it with a pinch of salt and act like it's no big deal like you felt it would have been nice to go out but it's not the end of the world. This will show a woman a number of things, you are confident, emotionally stable, go for what you want and take chances and also the most important that you like her.

There are a few possible outcomes to asking her out;

1) she doesn't like you and never will so says no

2) she says yes

3) she says no, but has a think about it, is impressed by your confidence and mature reaction and decides later that she does like you. She will then pursue you. You would need to keep an eye out for signals from her. If you feel that she likes you or now seems interested, you can give it one more go and ask her again that's if you want to. If she's says no again, then accept it and don't ask again.

Imo most women like being pursued. They like when a man shows interest in them but it is very much a turn off if someone acts desperate or needy.

I know it is hard for men and they seem to be expected to be the ones to have to put themselves out there but it is hard for women to. A lot of women are made to believe that it is wrong for them to ask the guy out and that he won't like it if she does or he will not respect her so it's not easy for women either.

themissymoo

Saralee4 wrote: »

Being asked out traditionally by a man these days is rare. It makes a man stand out. A woman might say no if you ask her out. She might get a shock because not many men do it anymore or she might not have even thought about you before. When you flatter someone, they start to see qualities in you that they like.

This is 100% spot on.

OP, go out and meet women. Not with the intention of dating one of them in the future, but just to meet women, get to know them and sure enough you'll soon find one who you really like. Go to parties, clubs, events. Try meetup.com. There are groups of people with things in common (usually a hobby, passion and or age) who meet up every so often. Just keep getting yourself out there.

But it must be said - once you stop looking, that's when she'll be found.

unjedilike

I think you need a few one night stands. Head to Newcastle for a weekend.

unjedilike

Or Amsterdam

gsi300024v

You don't seem so interested either, it's more like a puzzle you seem to want to figure out, like as if you just want to know why this is the case not really interested in changing it. So if you found out the reasons that would be enough for you rather than actually making changes?
Are you quite successful at most things you do? Possibly you down play the importance of this side or your life because it's easier to not be great at something you've not really tried hard at or don't value that at something you've tried hard at and aren't very good at or something you think important.

LegacyUser

Thank you for the further responses, it is helpful for me to get other people's perspectives. Saralee4's post definitely illustrates why I have been so confused about the etiquette of bringing interest into something more concrete. We've all seen the old methods on American TV shows when we were younger, but I've rarely ever seen it work, and that's something I'm quite conscious of. I tend to err on the side of caution in these things and prefer to imply interest rather than state it explicitly; if I see signs of interest back, then that opens a door. There's a subtle balance to be struck between making your interest clear and not allowing rejection to affect your friendship. In my case, none of my friendships have been affected, but maybe it means that I am not taking risks. However, I think I might try this again. In the past, I did try to give the impression that hooking up would be something nice, but not a big deal if it doesn't happen. Hearing it from someone else gives me a sense I was on the right track.

shaymus27 suggested I try out getting drunk and taking it from there. It's not really the kind of thing I'd do, but I'm open to giving it a try. I'll keep an open mind. The main thing going for it is that it seems to actually work. I'm not sure how to make it work though; I imagine there's a certain knack to it that people I knew in school just picked up by experience. Alcohol probably isn't even needed, but it might provide an insight into lowering your inhibitions. A one night stand is good as a hypothesis; I just don't know how to make that happen. I know it sounds like I'm asking to explain it like I'm five, but I've honestly never done something like that before.

I know I sound a bit disinterested, and serious as well, and some people in this thread have mentioned this. I would say, if you haven't had a sex life, it becomes a bit of an abstraction. Sometimes I do just forget about it for a long time, but the point is this; eventually, I'll find that I do want to have a sexual and romantic side to my life. You can lose touch with your passion for something or another, but you don't forget how it feels to care about it. There is an old saying that sex is like oxygen; it only matters if you're getting none of it. Maybe the long term deprivation makes me seem a bit detached. It's not a mere curiosity to me; otherwise I would have become bored with it long ago.

"But it must be said - once you stop looking, that's when she'll be found."

Interesting you should say that. I stopped looking three years ago! It was suggested that maybe I just needed to find like-minded people at university/work. I was involved in a few student societies where I would meet people one would describe as like-minded; I met people whose company I enjoyed, and occasionally took interest in (including over the last three years). I suppose it was my lack of luck in that arena that made me think something more casual would be worth a go. Maybe I will try online dating if nothing changes over the next few months.

beks101

You sound like a lovely guy OP, but you are overthinking this to the point of paralysis by analysis.

You're approaching it like it's some sort of college project and you're desperately afraid of taking the wrong approach for fear of getting a crap grade....when the reality is that all the while time is passing and women are walking by right under your nose and you're still stuck there wondering why nothing is 'working' for you.

Here's the thing. Respect is great, really it is. It's lovely when a lad is so in awe/admiration of you that he's afraid to put a foot wrong or say the wrong thing or disagree with you or be honest about his intentions for fear of being 'inappropriate.'

But my god it's bloody boring. It can make you feel massively uncomfortable. You're standing there talking about the weather and some fella is agreeing with every word out of your mouth and taking the conversation as serious as cancer and analysing every word and desperately afraid of throwing his arm around you or touching your arm or getting close to you for fear of being 'disrespectful'.

The likelihood as a woman is you're going to try to get out of that scenario and find someone more interesting to talk to. Leave that lad in the 'friendzone' at best, find someone who might tell you you're a fecken eejit for thinking that Game of Thrones is massively overrated and will playfully touch you on the arm and the shoulder and maintain eye contact in a way that engages you and line up their body language in such a way that you're the centre-focus to them and you're getting closer and closer as you talk, and then he says something entirely bold and brassy and you've crossed the boundary from chatting and flirting to hooking up. Or going out on a date.

I know telling someone to 'lighten up' when they have a tendency to overthink and a serious disposition is about as helpful as a hole in the head. But you really are going to have to change your approach. Stop accepting the benign friendship that someone you're sexually interested in might offer. Make flirting and laughing and suggestiveness a part of your interactions with them. Make your intentions obvious every time you talk to them. Make them see you as a sexual being.

I think this is the reason why alcohol can play a huge part in the dating game, especially in Ireland. You get drunk and you lose your inhibitions, your sense of what's 'appropriate' and what's not, your sense of social etiquette. All the rules go out the window and people can be a lot more emotionally honest with one another. You're not a big drinker, so you're left with no choice but to chance your tack and quit trying to develop some perfect 'fool proof' method whereby you can get the girl by maintaining class and honour and respect and all of those things.

It's a numbers game, play it. You won't have some perfect interaction right out of a Hollywood movie. It doesn't work like that. But you simply have to decide to have a bit of fun and not take yourself seriously - and you HAVE to be bold enough to cross the boundary when you're interacting with a woman you like.

LegacyUser

"But my god it's bloody boring. It can make you feel massively uncomfortable. You're standing there talking about the weather and some fella is agreeing with every word out of your mouth and taking the conversation as serious as cancer and analysing every word and desperately afraid of throwing his arm around you or touching your arm or getting close to you for fear of being 'disrespectful'."

I'm actually nothing like that. I know you only have my previous posts to go by, but please don't make assumptions about what I'm like in real life. This is a slightly awkward topic for me to talk about, even online. It means this is an area of my life I am quite confused about and my language may sound quite unusual. It does not mean that I am some deadpan serious yes man who analyses every facet of my social interaction and wants to flatter women by agreeing with everything they say.

Just to be very explicit about this; I do not interact with women differently to the way I interact with men. I have good friendships with both genders. I just do not know how to flirt properly. You say I am afraid as if it's a university project I must not fail; the real reason I'm afraid is that if I come on too strong and it makes things awkward for us both, I find it an emotionally draining experience. It happened before when I was younger, and I have observed it happen with friends, and it made me risk averse.

That said, I am not saying that I am not thankful for the advice, as I have learned new things through this thread. I just find that making liberal inferences about what I'm like in real life makes it very difficult for me to parse what advice is actually applicable to me from what would be applicable to someone else. In any case, I think I've received enough answers that I I know where to take it from here. Thanks all.

gsi300024v

AKA you've answered your own questions with your own answers and justified your actions. No need for change so.

beks101

numbertwentythree wrote: »

Just to be very explicit about this; I do not interact with women differently to the way I interact with men. I have good friendships with both genders.

That's probably where you're falling down. Friends are great, but you're not looking for friends, right? That's what this thread is about?

You don't want to get intimate with your male friends, so you don't convey that message to them via your body language and words and innuendo and the like. It sounds to me like you're plodding along in the same way with any potential female partner, with a complete mental block when it comes to being a bit more forward, and this is precisely why things aren't progressing into anything more than friendship.

I'm very sorry that I offended you OP and my intention was not to infer anything about you - sure all I've seen like anyone else is a few posts on an anonymous message board, I may be way off the mark with my advice. But as a seasoned dater who was single for most of my 20s and met all kinds of men during that time, and like all women would be intuitive about when someone is into me but very often turned off by certain behaviours, this was a pretty clear cut case for me.

You speak about this fear of misjudging or coming on too strong, and what you're not realizing is just how pervasive that fear can be in every facet of a person's demeanour, particularly in these social situations where you're really into someone but held back from doing anything you perceive to be 'too risky'. All I wanted to do was challenge your thinking on this a bit - perhaps make you see that there's nothing really to be fearful of. So you get shot down? Lose a friend over it? Someone thinks you're a creep? Isn't it better that you at least gave it a shot anyway, and in all reality do you want to be 'only friends' with someone that you have a strong sexual interest in? At least this way you've laid your cards on the table and if they don't bite - you can move on. As I said, numbers game.

I know this thread is nearing its end, but if there's one question you should be asking of yourself from all of this, it's precisely this: WHY do things not progress when you meet someone you're attracted to? What in your behaviour or demeanour or actions is lacking to take you from 'friend', to 'something more'?

You're clearly a lovely guy, but if you're afraid to cast a critical eye on your own behaviour and listen to things you perhaps aren't necessarily going to enjoy hearing - well then you'll continue to be a lovely guy with lots of lovely female friends. To state the obvious here, by changing nothing, nothing changes.

kylith

numbertwentythree wrote: »

Anyway, to cut to the chase, I'm not lacking confidence or just waiting for something happen, as has been hinted in a couple of posts. I'm just unsure of what to do to hook up with someone. In that sense, I am looking for sheerly practical advice, because that will allow me to take the initiative. kjl provided a helpful suggestion, and it sounds sensible. I will try it the next time I'm out.

numbertwentythree wrote: »

I tend to err on the side of caution in these things and prefer to imply interest rather than state it explicitly

I think that your second post there answers your first one. You don't state intention of interest, therefore you don't hook up with anyone. For all you know there are a dozen girls wondering if you like them or not but because you're not making it known that you're interested they'd never know. It's like when you want the last donut but you pretend you don't so as not to appear greedy, and then someone else comes along and just takes it. You have to be that donut taker!

Identify a girl you'd like to get to know better, say something like "Hi Sarah, would you like to go for a coffee with me on Saturday?" If she says yes; happy days. If she says no then no harm done, at least you tried. If you lose a friend then that's just the way life goes.

Don't be so afraid to lose something that you don't try to have it.

gsi300024v

IT is quite liberating to ask someone out, I was same as you , very shy that way, wanting to know for sure before I'd ask.
But it's almost a compliment, if someone said to you, hey I really like you, you're interesting and funny and easy on the eyes, fancy a coffee? , I'd be flattered, I wouldn't think, OMG I'm never talking to them again. And if that is something they thought, than maybe it's not a great friendship.
If they say no thanks, you can still be friends, I've done that too and found that quite liberating also.

Potatoeman

numbertwentythree wrote: »

"But my god it's bloody boring. It can make you feel massively uncomfortable. You're standing there talking about the weather and some fella is agreeing with every word out of your mouth and taking the conversation as serious as cancer and analysing every word and desperately afraid of throwing his arm around you or touching your arm or getting close to you for fear of being 'disrespectful'."

I'm actually nothing like that. I know you only have my previous posts to go by, but please don't make assumptions about what I'm like in real life. This is a slightly awkward topic for me to talk about, even online. It means this is an area of my life I am quite confused about and my language may sound quite unusual. It does not mean that I am some deadpan serious yes man who analyses every facet of my social interaction and wants to flatter women by agreeing with everything they say.

Just to be very explicit about this; I do not interact with women differently to the way I interact with men. I have good friendships with both genders. I just do not know how to flirt properly. You say I am afraid as if it's a university project I must not fail; the real reason I'm afraid is that if I come on too strong and it makes things awkward for us both, I find it an emotionally draining experience. It happened before when I was younger, and I have observed it happen with friends, and it made me risk averse.

That said, I am not saying that I am not thankful for the advice, as I have learned new things through this thread. I just find that making liberal inferences about what I'm like in real life makes it very difficult for me to parse what advice is actually applicable to me from what would be applicable to someone else. In any case, I think I've received enough answers that I I know where to take it from here. Thanks all.

Youre ignoring some of the other advise though. It sounds like youre not good at giving or readings signals, which will cause problems. A poster above mentined touching on the arm when talking to someone, its a small thing but the willingness to touch and be touched sends a very basic signal.

LegacyUser

Yes, I understand that my problem is I don't really know how to flirt/show interest. I'm working on it. I'm not answering my own questions, I just wanted to get other perspectives, and that's what I've got. I'll reflect on them.

"I'm very sorry that I offended you OP and my intention was not to infer anything about you"

It's fine, I wasn't offended, it's just that it's difficult to glean something from advice if it's based on personality traits you don't have. I found the rest of the post useful, so I'll use that.

Thanks again all for replies.

strobe

Potatoeman wrote: »

Youre ignoring some of the other advise though. It sounds like youre not good at giving or readings signals, which will cause problems. A poster above mentined touching on the arm when talking to someone, its a small thing but the willingness to touch and be touched sends a very basic signal.

That's actually really good advice. I don't want to get into specifics, as situations and people vary too much. But yes. Touch them. Obviously don't shove your hand up their skirt or anything :pac: but a touch on the arm, brushing an eye lash off their cheek, a hand on their hip to guide them out of your way as you move past them to go get another drink or whatever, anything like that, do it, and do it early on, obviously not before you've struck up a bit of conversation first, that'd be mental, but yeah, early.