FM Digital Radio Specs

danjo-xx

Last time I bought a lovey panasonic cd,radio unit but didn't know that some stuff gets dumped in this part of the world that is not really suitable or up to spec.

E.G. The digital tuner only goes up in steps of 5,10,15 20 etc so some stations you cant tune in, like spirit fm.

Is there a particular spec or standard that I should look out for when next time buying anything with a digital radio tuner.

dxhound2005

If the FM band goes from 87.50 to 108.00 then it is a proper model for Ireland. In Japan and some parts of Eastern Europe they use other frequencies.

What you describe is normal 50 kHz steps tuning, like in this video.

All Irish stations operate on even 100 kHz channels. The Spirit Radio frequences are shown here so if you are in say the Waterford area you tune to 90.10.

http://www.spiritradio.ie/

watty

Models for "USA only" will have unsuitable tuning steps.

Never ever buy ANYTHING Electronic intended for the North American market, even if it claims 220V.

Some "World use" portables do 76 to 110MHz or even 64MHz to 110MHz. These oddly more common from mid 1960s than today. My 1985 Sony ICF2001D is 76 to 108MHz FM with approx 110MHz to 135MHz AM Airband.
AM /SSB 150kHz to 30MHz and user select coarse steps of 9KHz (Europe) or 10KHz (USA).

USA FM in theory is a different "de-emphasis" in the radio to Europe, but the tone control or excessive use of processing by the FM station may make that irrelevant.

Note some cheaper FM Radios with a Digital display are not PLL digital synthesis, but ordinary radios with a 50c frequency counter measuring the Local Oscillator and sharing the Alarm/Time display.

In a sense "real" Digital FM radios hardly exist as a consumer product. They are analogue using either a counter display or PLL synthesiser. A true "digital" FM radio does the tuning, filtering and demodulation using Digital Signal Processing (DSP), or basically a mix of Hardware and Software "number crunching" instead of analogue circuits.

A PLL "digital" FM radio is all analogue apart from Local Oscillator and display.

Antenna

It sounds to me that probably the original poster's radio is just skipping over this station in search tuning as the signal is not quite strong enough (below threshold), and that the O.P. is then unable to manually tune it in ??

have a read of radio's manual to select manual tuning instead of search tuning if this is not obvious on the radio?

Watty, the OP's issue is definately not due to a radio with American 0.2MHz FM tuning steps only, as the very frequency he is trying to tune in (90.1) as per dxhound2005's post, would be compatible with all US digitally tuned FM radios!
American FM frequencies always end with an odd number after the decimal point, so 88.1, 88.3, 88.5 etc, (never 88.0 or 88.2 etc)

Another possible issue, is this a car radio?, if yes ensure RDS Traffic announcement mode is OFF, usually a button marked TP, press it so that TP or TA or TI or Traffic (depending on the radio) disappears on the display

watty

The majority of radio sets for sale now seem to be rubbish.

Imported but

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If the FM band goes from 87.50 to 108.00 then it is a proper model for Ireland. In Japan and some parts of Eastern Europe they use other frequencies.

What you describe is normal 50 kHz steps tuning, like in this video.

All Irish stations operate on even 100 kHz channels. The Spirit Radio frequences are shown here so if you are in say the Waterford area you tune to 90.10.

http://www.spiritradio.ie/

Hi dxhound2005, am also in Dundalk. Any recommendations for an ultralight FM stereo tuner that will hang onto a signal while I commute on the bus to Dublin? I like to listen to rte1 (with headphones) but often it breaks up on all frequencies as we go between monasterboice and the toll.... Are those little world radios they have in Lidl at the minute any more sensitive than your average mobile phone radio, do you know? TIA, Peter.

watty

A Sony Xperia Z1 phone is the best pocket set I've ever used for Stereo FM.

For pocket sets:
Next best is a Yaesu VR500 (mono though). The VX5R isn't bad for FM Mono, but it's a rather insane Amateur band two way radio. The Ham FT817N is rather crazy, for VHF-FM Band II it has a separate domestic radio IF/FM IC in it!

Then Philips AE6565 (stereo), though I get break through of Shannon Air traffic on three parts of band.

The Tesco "World radio" isn't light weight but is cheap and fits a larger pocket, while mono, it's not bad.

An old Hacker from 1970s or table model Sony 1980s (ICF2001D) beats any portable radio on the market today.


You'd be challenged to find any decent radio only model now. None are much better than Tesco's pocket AM/FM set (mono). Your best bet is a phone with a decent FM tuner in it.

The Aldi and Lidl "world radios" are particularly garbage, they are glorified travel alarm clocks. I've tried a couple of models of each. Rubbish. I took the Aldi models back. Gave away one Lidl model and kept one as a curio. The FM performance isn't much better than the €2 autoscan FM radios. The AM is abysmal. The Tesco €10 "World Radio" isn't brilliant, but far better than any Aldi / Lidl model (the analogue display makes it easier to tune!) and about equivalent to Retro Table Roberst Revival at over €120, but with added shortwave.

P.S. EDIT
I used to work occasionally in Dundalk and took a selection of radio sets. My Car radio worked in some areas there for BBC VHF as well as the ICF2001D. I used to travel Belfast / Limerick often too.

Imported but

Thanks Watty. The Xperia Z1 is a bit pricey - about EUR 300 - and a bit large but perhaps some older / cheaper / smaller models have the same radio hardware, I will have a hunt for reviews covering the FM radio sensitivity. Currently I'm using an old Nokia C6 symbian phone for radio, my main handset is a newer Nokia N9, but it's FM radio implementation isn't as good, doesn't offer Alternate Frequency automatic retuning for example.

Would kinda like a radio covering some SW, also I wonder if the LW broadcast on 252 kHz is easier to receive when in a bus? I am aware its days are numbered - a 2017 shutdown is the current target?
I would rather hear mono than the patchy FM on 87.8, 88.5 and 89.1 that I get at various points up the M1, maybe I'll see if I can get hold of one of the sets you mentioned above.

Imported but

There are great reviews of the Yaesu VX-5R transceiver below - but with a 5W transmit power does it require a licence?

http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/69

GekkePrutser

Imported but wrote: »

There are great reviews of the Yaesu VX-5R transceiver below - but with a 5W transmit power does it require a licence?

http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/69

Only illegal to use it to transmit without a licence. You may still own it legally as far as I know.

You can set it to "PTT lock" so it doesn't inadvertently transmit if you use it as a scanner or broadcast radio. Though it won't transmit anyway on the FM broadcast band. Make sure you disable the squelch (set to 0), it's way more annoying when it cuts out than it is to have a bit of noise. I often use my VX-8E like this. It has triple watch so I can monitor the repeater, watch APRS and listen to the local broadcast. By the way the VX-5R model is the US model, the one available in Europe is VX-5E.

It's still a bit expensive if you use it just as an FM radio though and it has lots of features you'll never use. Unless you go for your ticket. I can recommend that!

Edit: by the way my VX-8 does not have a way to force mono receive, at least not as far as I've noticed. So I'd doubt the VX-5 has that as it's a cheaper model.

dxhound2005

I think the ultralight radios and phones without speakers will be limited by the fact that they rely on the headphone lead as an antenna. And any radio on a bus is hardly going to be as good as a car radio.

There is a review of some small radios here, with an emphasis on MW and SW reception, but the Tecsun PL310 gets top marks for FM. It is very much an American site.

http://swling.com/blog/2015/03/gary-debocks-2015-ultralight-radio-shootout-review/

PL-310ET—FM-DXing Test Drive

Although the MW performance of the PL-310ET is no longer top of the line, the good news is that the FM performance of the PL-310ET is as good as ever. The Si4734 DSP chip has earned a very impressive reputation in FM sensitivity and selectivity since it was introduced in 2009, and the PL-310ET continues to dominate the Ultralight radio field in this capability (along with its brother PL-606 model, which has the extended whip antenna). The new models which compete so successfully with the PL-310 in MW-DXing fall flat in FM competition, limited either by their shorter whip antennas, less sensitive DSP chips or both.

Imported but

Thanks for the suggestion. I had read some reviews there, I believe that the Si4735 is fitted to the PL-365 and supports RDS which the Si4734 doesn't. I take your point that headphones-based antennae are fairly useless. Plenty for me to think over. Thanks everyone.

dxhound2005

Imported but wrote: »

Thanks for the suggestion. I had read some reviews there, I believe that the Si4735 is fitted to the PL-365 and supports RDS which the Si4734 doesn't. I take your point that headphones-based antennae are fairly useless. Plenty for me to think over. Thanks everyone.

I sent a reply to your PM earlier this evening.

watty

The VX5R isn't a serious suggestion. It's also mono only. For ordinary portable listening of FM/AM the €10 Tesco Analogue scale World band set is more useful.

The Tecsun and Sangean are actually over priced for what they are, but not as over priced is the Roberts (which is one of the Asian sets rebadged). Some are ergonomic disasters.

Headphone based aerials aren't as good as a car aerial. But the only better alternative is a fully extended 75cm whip, so actually they are brilliant solution for a pocket radio. Other than on desk/table the telescopic whip is awkward and easily broken. All my VHF sets need aerial to work. I have ONE 1957 portable that uses beading on case covering join as loop. This is very directional compared to a whip, but at least isn't awkward. This is also advantage of MW/LW over VHF, for ANY useful reception a VHF FM or DAB set needs headphone aerial or fully extended whip or hanging wire (alarm clock sets).

However the Tecsun and Sangean are the only more expensive alternative to the Tesco set. Almost no Asian models have LW (Handy for BBC R4, or RTE in parts of Mainland UK, or daytime French Language Radio).

I don't believe any phone based set has more than FM.

Try the €10 Analogue scale Tesco World band Set on the bus. If no use on LW / MW /SW / VHF-FM on the bus, then no radio is going to be much good.

Car radios need the older 75cm whip. The newer car aerials give terrible performance in comparison and are no use for poorer FM or really ANY MW/LW.

Imported but

I picked up a very small and basic digital Silvercrest FM-only tuner from LIDL, Eur 4.99 including earbuds and a pair of AAA batteries. No whip aerial or speaker, displays only the time or frequncy (there's an alarm feature). 20 presets. Apparently it has a PLL tuner. It's actually more sensitive than my phone's FM radio but perhaps less selective - just from a side by side comparison at home, it pulls in a BBC station the Nokia barely gets at all (using the same set of earphones). The audio is a bit thin sounding, but just about acceptable for the news, probably better headphones would help. There seems to be some audio artifacts like you get on a low bitrate digital recorder but can't expect hifi from a cheap IC. Also feels cheap, buttons in particular, but has a good little instruction book. Will test on the bus next week to see if it can hold on to rte1 one at least one of the 3 frequencies in the stretch between the toll and J12.

watty

Imported but wrote: »

I picked up a very small and basic digital Silvercrest FM-only tuner from LIDL, Eur 4.99 including earbuds and a pair of AAA batteries.

Junk compared to many analogue display sets. Terrible ergonomics and selectivity.

The earphone is aerial.

Only the display and local oscillator is Digital. It's a totally analogue radio of poor quality.

Antenna

watty wrote: »

The Tesco €10 "World Radio" isn't brilliant, but far better than any Aldi / Lidl model (the analogue display makes it easier to tune!) and about equivalent to Retro Table Roberst Revival at over €120, but with added shortwave.
.

The MW (AM band on the radio) of that Tesco RAD-108 pocket world radio is very poor, its worst performing band. LW isn't quite as bad.

FM is relatively good (for a 10 euro radio). Selectivity is good, and no "bleedover" effects noted from strong nearby signals.
Stations 'pop-up' as you tune along the band rather than go in-and-out of tune.
FM reception can often be improved by placing it on a metal surface with the aerial straight up.
FM coverage is actually 87.0 to 108.0 MHz (matching the Chinese FM band which goes a bit lower than ours)

Upper MW frequency is 1620kHz, and reception will cut out above that frequency, even though dial pointer goes a bit higher! some countries such as Australia have an extended AM band that goes up to 1700kHz or so (if you travel there). However the radio is so insensitive on MW (and also produces a few false carriers on some points of the MW band) its not much use anyway unless fairly near powerful MW stations

attached some pictures of what's inside. Just 2 ICs (one for RF, one audio amp) and a few other components. On the other side of PCB is a crystal for RF IC and a few capacitors. Ferrite bar at top is the MW/LW aerial, for anyone that does not know

Uses 2 AA batteries. Radio makes an unusual buzzy sound just as the batteries run down.


on Tesco's site:
http://www.tesco.com/direct/tesco-rad-108-world-band-radio/498-0233.prd

Spot the error if you select 'Show More'

watty

The MW (AM band on the radio) of that Tesco RAD-108 pocket world radio is very poor, its worst performing band. LW isn't quite as bad

.
I have tried three and taken one back.
The MW & LW seems variable and may be due to the ferrite coil alignment.

USA has extended AM band also.

The SW is probably overloaded with an external wire, but better than some €20 sets I've tried.

It's not bad for €10, but if not perfect take it back and swap. The QA /QC /Assembly quality is poor. One had dry joints. I've bought a few of the smaller AM-FM truly pocket Tesco sets simply for parts as the Tuning cap alone is more when you add postage.

FM reception can often be improved by placing it on a metal surface with the aerial straight up.

Indeed phone or any truly pocket set relies on your body as "earth" for FM. The €2 autoscan FM sets barely work at all on a table. Even a biscuit tin lid makes a huge difference.

Advantage of loop or Ferrite is no "Earth" needed. A lot of early valve and transistor AM/FM portables had two telescopic aerial to form a dipole to solve the "earth" issue. (Earlier all VHF - FM was horizontal polarised, now it's vertical, slant or circular to suit cars and single whips). A single whip (AKA marconi, monopole, 1/4 to 5/8 Wave etc) always needs an "earth". WiFi aerials often are end fed dipoles, the outer of coax connects to a 1/4 wave tube such that outer of coax and inner of tube is 50 to 75 Ohm approx. The inner extends for 1/4 wave beyond tube and it's all in a plastic pipe. I've tried same idea for UHF TV and VHF Radio and it does improve reception significantly.

For handheld two way UHF with an SMA or BNC an inline adaptor can be made. They too rely on being in your hand for "earthing" of the normal whip.