Legality of this....

tommy090

Hi I'm on a fas/solas training course - the course has "unsociable hours".. I've been in now since Thursday gone by, I was in all weekend and all week and now I'm asked to come in this weekend too. On Friday that will be my 9th day and I've "worked" around 60 hours.. is this legal for them to get me in on the weekend too?

TallGlass

tommy090 wrote: »

Hi I'm on a fas/solas training course - the course has "unsociable hours".. I've been in now since Thursday gone by, I was in all weekend and all week and now I'm asked to come in this weekend too. On Friday that will be my 9th day and I've "worked" around 60 hours.. is this legal for them to get me in on the weekend too?

No you are due 2 days off out of every 7 so 5 days. This must be over a set period either Monday-Sunday or Sunday-Saturday etc..

Read up on the work and time act it is all set out in there.

tommy090

TallGlass wrote: »

No you are due 2 days off out of every 7 so 5 days. This must be over a set period either Monday-Sunday or Sunday-Saturday etc..

Read up on the work and time act it is all set out in there.

Does this still apply even though it's a training course though?

Stheno

TallGlass wrote: »

No you are due 2 days off out of every 7 so 5 days. This must be over a set period either Monday-Sunday or Sunday-Saturday etc..

Read up on the work and time act it is all set out in there.

That's incorrect it's one continuous break of 24 hours in seven days

And it's an average over something lijke four months

Op why do they need you in so much?

TallGlass

Stheno wrote: »

That's incorrect it's one continuous break of 24 hours in seven days

And it's an average over something lijke four months

Op why do they need you in so much?

No its not. You've to get two days off a week. Look at the work and time act its all in there. You don't get one day off in 7 and certainly not one day off in 4 months.

If your been employed paid or not the work and time act applies.

Stheno

TallGlass wrote: »

No its not. You've to get two days off a week. Look at the work and time act its all in there. You don't get one day off in 7 and certainly not one day off in 4 months.

If your been employed paid or not the work and time act applies.

I have and I am correct am on mobile so can't link but it's as I originally said one continuous break of 24 hours every seven days.

It's measured as an average over four months not one day off in four months

Mrs OBumble

Stheno wrote: »

I have and I am correct am on mobile so can't link but it's as I originally said one continuous break of 24 hours every seven days.

It's measured as an average over four months not one day off in four months

Link is here: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/hours_of_work/rest_periods_and_breaks.html

A
Anyone who believes other rules apply, please provide a link.

TallGlass

Stheno wrote: »

I have and I am correct am on mobile so can't link but it's as I originally said one continuous break of 24 hours every seven days.

It's measured as an average over four months not one day off in four months

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Link is here: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/hours_of_work/rest_periods_and_breaks.html

A
Anyone who believes other rules apply, please provide a link.

Okay, for no one willing to actually look at the Work And Time Act 1997

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0020/sec0013.html#sec13

Section 13 of the act subsection 2

(2) Subject to subsection (3), an employee shall, in each period of 7 days, be granted a rest period of at least 24 consecutive hours; subject to subsections (4) and (6), the time at which that rest period commences shall be such that that period is immediately preceded by a daily rest period

So you have your rest period of 24hours then following that period of rest it is immediately followed by another rest period. But subsections 4 and 6 apply.

Subsection 4 states these days don't have to be one after another. You must still get 2 days off out of 7

Subsection 6 give rise to acts that the likes of Garda/Nurses/ES use where they can work longer hours/longer intervals, which I think has been challenged by the EU courts and found to be in breech.

Also any job I have ever worked at in Ireland has given me two days off during the week and never one day off.

Stheno

TallGlass wrote: »

Okay, for no one willing to actually look at the Work And Time Act 1997

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0020/sec0013.html#sec13

Section 13 of the act subsection 2

(2) Subject to subsection (3), an employee shall, in each period of 7 days, be granted a rest period of at least 24 consecutive hours; subject to subsections (4) and (6), the time at which that rest period commences shall be such that that period is immediately preceded by a daily rest period

So you have your rest period of 24hours then following that period of rest it is immediately followed by another rest period. But subsections 4 and 6 apply.

Subsection 4 states these days don't have to be one after another. You must still get 2 days off out of 7

Subsection 6 give rise to acts that the likes of Garda/Nurses/ES use where they can work longer hours/longer intervals, which I think has been challenged by the EU courts and found to be in breech.

Also any job I have ever worked at in Ireland has given me two days off during the week and never one day off.

That's not what its saying at all.

It's saying you are entitled to one 24 hour rest period which should be after a normal daily rest period

So if you work 9-5 and finish Friday your normal rest period from five to nine will be followed by a 24 hour rest and then you are back in as normal at nine on the Sunday and it meets the terms of the act

Tordelback

It's very sweet that some people have always had two days off a week, but it is neither a legal requirement nor even vaguely universal. Try the construction industry some time.

On the other hand, the OP is genuinely having a hard time of it: what's the nature of the course, OP? Is it all work or are there periods of teaching/study in those 9 days that might be seen to break up the continuous run of days?

therecklessone

TallGlass wrote: »

Okay, for no one willing to actually look at the Work And Time Act 1997

To give it its rightful name, it is the Organisation of Working Time Act, 1997

And if you are going to admonish people for not reading it then you should ensure you read it in its entirety yourself. Section 13 (3) states:

(3) An employer may, in lieu of granting to an employee in any period of 7 days the first-mentioned rest period in subsection (2), grant to him or her, in the next following period of 7 days, 2 rest periods each of which shall be a period of at least 24 consecutive hours and, subject to subsections (4) and (6)—

That means it is legal to have no weekly rest period in week one as long as two are granted in week two.

OP you seem to be in a bind here. I'm not certain that you are covered by the Act as you are on a training course, however if you are it appears to be legal to ask you to do what you have been asked to do.

TallGlass

I find it hilarious on this site, that if someone get something wrong that everyone and there dog comes out to defend the title and starts nit picking everything in one post. This site makes me laugh at times.

In fact I would suggest people sometimes register two accounts on this site, one for your original question then another to post incorrect information. You will get an answer with in seconds using this approach.
MOD-NOTE: please be aware that this suggestion is against boards.ie terms and conditions. And that it is quite likely to be noticed (and you banned) if you do try this approach.


Try to be helpful and post information and replies on this site to information you believed to be correct based on your own working experience, to which I still believe you should get two days off. Trust me when you work for Tesco or any big company, if they can have you in 6 days a week they will.

Sure look at the Dunnes works there working 5/7 for 20 hours, now I am been told by the good people here that it should be in fact 6/7 days working.

Stheno

TallGlass wrote: »

I find it hilarious on this site, that if someone get something wrong that everyone and there dog comes out to defend the title and starts nit picking everything in one post. This site makes me laugh at times.

In fact I would suggest people sometimes register two accounts on this site, one for your original question then another to post incorrect information. You will get an answer with in seconds using this approach.

Try to be helpful and post information and replies on this site to information you believed to be correct based on your own working experience, to which I still believe you should get two days off. Trust me when you work for Tesco or any big company, if they can have you in 6 days a week they will.

Sure look at the Dunnes works there working 5/7 for 20 hours, now I am been told by the good people here that it should be in fact 6/7 days working.

No you are being told that it's perfectly legal for someone to work six days a week what's your problem here?

The fact that you repeatedly posted incorrect information and were called on it?

TallGlass

therecklessone wrote: »

To give it its rightful name, it is the Organisation of Working Time Act, 1997

And if you are going to admonish people for not reading it then you should ensure you read it in its entirety yourself. Section 13 (3) states:



That means it is legal to have no weekly rest period in week one as long as two are granted in week two.

OP you seem to be in a bind here. I'm not certain that you are covered by the Act as you are on a training course, however if you are it appears to be legal to ask you to do what you have been asked to do.

I did read it actually and big deal I left out one word of the title.

Section 13 points back to section 2, which to me reads as two days off.

But I agree, the act allows for arguments sake these days/day to be moved to the following week.

Whats the nature of this course? Are you learning anything or is it just purely working. It might be an idea to ask if you are considered an employe or ask what type of insurance you have while 'studying' on there premises. BTW if you feel you are been exploited by this person while learning, inform the college that you cannot continue to 'learn' under these conditions.

Stheno

It does seem wrong that a state run course requires those hours

Tails142

You can continuously work 6 days a week

TallGlass

Stheno wrote: »

No you are being told that it's perfectly legal for someone to work six days a week what's your problem here?

The fact that you repeatedly posted incorrect information and were called on it?

My problem is on this site no one cares about questions until someone get it wrong. Puts people of posting. I still believe its two days off from what I read from that act.

tommy090

Tails142 wrote: »

You can continuously work 6 days a week

I'm now on my 9th day tomorrow, 11 days if I do the weekend & then 16 days when I have to go in all next week....

Stheno

tommy090 wrote: »

I'm now on my 9th day tomorrow, 11 days if I do the weekend & then 16 days when I have to go in all next week....

What training course are you doing?

tommy090

Tordelback wrote: »

It's very sweet that some people have always had two days off a week, but it is neither a legal requirement nor even vaguely universal. Try the construction industry some time.

On the other hand, the OP is genuinely having a hard time of it: what's the nature of the course, OP? Is it all work or are there periods of teaching/study in those 9 days that might be seen to break up the continuous run of days?

Work with horses.... There is some study during the week (not a lot), but mainly work and on weekends just constant labour... If I do the weekend I'll be in there 11 days, and will still have to go in Mon-Fri next week too, making it 16 days

tommy090

Stheno wrote: »

What training course are you doing?

It's an equestrian course

Stheno

tommy090 wrote: »

It's an equestrian course

Ah groom or something like that? That's an industry notorious for I'll treatment
when is your next time off and for how long?

tommy090

Stheno wrote: »

Ah groom or something like that? That's an industry notorious for I'll treatment
when is your next time off and for how long?

Something like this, but includes mucking out and all that lovely stuff! I should be off at the weekend but I've been asked to come in, so not until the 2nd of May - unless I'm asked in that weekend too... they're honestly taking the p*** I'm absolutely shattered!

Stheno

tommy090 wrote: »

Something like this, but includes mucking out and all that lovely stuff! I should be off at the weekend but I've been asked to come in, so not until the 2nd of May - unless I'm asked in that weekend too... they're honestly taking the p*** I'm absolutely shattered!

I'd be calling fas about this in the morning they need to step in here

Best of luck sounds like a ****ty situation for you

TallGlass

Stheno wrote: »

I'd be calling fas about this in the morning they need to step in here

Best of luck sounds like a ****ty situation for you

Call FAS tell them this is not on. Horses are not an animal to be around when tired, if your not careful or aware you could easily get injured or killed

Tordelback

Strikes me the OP is being 'trained' to have complete disregard for health and safety. I'm self employed, and even the guys I'm sub-contracting from wouldn't allow me work those hours on site for safety reasons - never mind the state training agency! I'd raise the need for a break with your direct supervisor/trainer, and if you don't get any satisfaction there will be a specific Fas/Intreo person over your scheme who needs to be told immediately. You should be able to contact them through your local office if you don't already know them.

therecklessone

tommy090 wrote: »

I'm now on my 9th day tomorrow, 11 days if I do the weekend & then 16 days when I have to go in all next week....

Believe it or not, under the legislation it is possible to work 18 days without a day off thus:

Week|Monday|Tuesday|Wednesday|Thursday|Friday|Saturday|Sunday
1|Off|On|On|On|On|On|On|
2|On|On|On|On|On|On|On|
3|On|On|On|On|On|Off|Off

Though any employer who would require such a working pattern would need their head examined as it is a H&S nightmare.

Stheno wrote: »

Ah groom or something like that? That's an industry notorious for I'll treatment

OP, before you query the request to work long hours perhaps you should think about the hours you'll be asked/expected to work should you complete this course? Are staff (as opposed to trainees) expected to do similar? If so, is this really the area within which you want to work?

You've got some good advice from previous posters re. avenues of redress, particularly the post immediately preceding this.

Best of luck.

Diddlina

Tordelback wrote: »

Strikes me the OP is being 'trained' to have complete disregard for health and safety. I'm self employed, and even the guys I'm sub-contracting from wouldn't allow me work those hours on site for safety reasons - never mind the state training agency! I'd raise the need for a break with your direct supervisor/trainer, and if you don't get any satisfaction there will be a specific Fas/Intreo person over your scheme who needs to be told immediately. You should be able to contact them through your local office if you don't already know them.

What you say is completely true however hours in the equine industry are notoriously long. And FAS turn a complete blind eye so theres little redress.

tommy090

therecklessone wrote: »

Believe it or not, under the legislation it is possible to work 18 days without a day off thus:

Week|Monday|Tuesday|Wednesday|Thursday|Friday|Saturday|Sunday
1|Off|On|On|On|On|On|On|
2|On|On|On|On|On|On|On|
3|On|On|On|On|On|Off|Off

Though any employer who would require such a working pattern would need their head examined as it is a H&S nightmare.



OP, before you query the request to work long hours perhaps you should think about the hours you'll be asked/expected to work should you complete this course? Are staff (as opposed to trainees) expected to do similar? If so, is this really the area within which you want to work?

You've got some good advice from previous posters re. avenues of redress, particularly the post immediately preceding this.

Best of luck.

Yes this is the area I want to work in... I've been doing it all my life. However, when I'm the only one asked to come in out of 10 others, then I don't think that's right. Anyway, I've got it sorted!

tommy090

Tordelback wrote: »

Strikes me the OP is being 'trained' to have complete disregard for health and safety. I'm self employed, and even the guys I'm sub-contracting from wouldn't allow me work those hours on site for safety reasons - never mind the state training agency! I'd raise the need for a break with your direct supervisor/trainer, and if you don't get any satisfaction there will be a specific Fas/Intreo person over your scheme who needs to be told immediately. You should be able to contact them through your local office if you don't already know them.

Thank you, I've got it all sorted out today!

tommy090

TallGlass wrote: »

Call FAS tell them this is not on. Horses are not an animal to be around when tired, if your not careful or aware you could easily get injured or killed

True! I've gotten it sorted out there today!