Wireless charging...

shanemkelly

http://ec.europa.eu/research/infocentre/article_en.cfm?id=/research/headlines/news/article_15_04_20_en.html?infocentre&item=Infocentre&artid=34516

Hmmm... :cool:

cros13

shanemkelly wrote: »

http://ec.europa.eu/research/infocentre/article_en.cfm?id=/research/headlines/news/article_15_04_20_en.html?infocentre&item=Infocentre&artid=34516

Hmmm... :cool:

Qualcomm have been shopping around their Halo 7.2kW induction charging system. It's looking like some manufacturers might bite. BMW showed off a system at CES but didn't identify the OEM. And the BMW i8 safety car in Formula E uses the Qualcomm system.

There is also some talk of inductively charging the Formula E racecars next year. And there have been some experiments with inductively charging moving vehicles, with a successful test delivering 1KW at 50 km/h.

It's probably going to be the case in the future that public car parks would have induction loops embedded, but I still think people will use conductive charging at home.

nokia69

are people so lazy that they can't plug some thing in, it only takes a few seconds

reboot

shanemkelly wrote: »

http://ec.europa.eu/research/infocentre/article_en.cfm?id=/research/headlines/news/article_15_04_20_en.html?infocentre&item=Infocentre&artid=34516

Hmmm... :cool:

Haven't had time to check it out fully, but I think its a very inefficient method of power transfer?

cros13

reboot wrote: »

Haven't had time to check it out fully, but I think its a very inefficient method of power transfer?

It's more efficient than you think 5-10% loss vs a conductive charger

zerohero2015

This would be handy and probably the future for charging, but how efficient compared to a wire?

reboot

zerohero2015 wrote: »

This would be handy and probably the future for charging, but how efficient compared to a wire?

Agreed, hard to beat a wire. Maplin clearance section a few days ago had Qi, (Think pronounced Chi?) inductive charger for 10 pounds,but a poor selection of phone coil packs to go with it. Ikea also launched inductive chargers several months ago built into several table lamps,furniture etc. But short on tech spec or details of buying the two separate coil packs.,charge current etc.

Induction charging will have it's uses in areas where plugging in a cable isn't practical.

Other than this cable will be more efficient.

I don't think it's known if there would be any health implications long term with such technology, but I suppose it would take years.

reboot

Deleted User wrote: »

Induction charging will have it's uses in areas where plugging in a cable isn't practical.

Other than this cable will be more efficient.

I don't think it's known if there would be any health implications long term with such technology, but I suppose it would take years.

Doing some projects with Qi smart phone charging, lots of heat generated even around 300ma charge current'

Heat is a pure sign of inefficiency !

how hard is it to plug things in ? I can only see the use for induction charging in places where a risk of tripping is high.

As I said in an earlier post, the next gen 120-200 mile range electrics are 2-3 years away so the reliance on chargers will be a lot less, I can see the normal street chargers quietly disappear because they're next to useless, always iced or down so I don't bother any more. And the future is DC fast charging and that's where the industry is heading, the Renault Zoe is the first and imo the last ev that will have such a powerful on board charger.

And with induction charging, again can't see a future for it because most people who can;t have cables loose or can't install a charge point will rely on fast charging.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

Renault Zoe is the first and imo the last ev that will have such a powerful on board charger.

All the Teslas will retain the option of 22-44kW AC charging.

Deleted User wrote: »

And with induction charging, again can't see a future for it because most people who can;t have cables loose or can't install a charge point will rely on fast charging.

I think there's a future for inductive charging embedded in public car parks.

The tuned inductive charging used by the qualcomm EV charger is significantly more efficient than a Qi charger.

reboot

Deleted User wrote: »

Heat is a pure sign of inefficiency !

how hard is it to plug things in ? I can only see the use for induction charging in places where a risk of tripping is high.

As I said in an earlier post, the next gen 120-200 mile range electrics are 2-3 years away so the reliance on chargers will be a lot less, I can see the normal street chargers quietly disappear because they're next to useless, always iced or down so I don't bother any more. And the future is DC fast charging and that's where the industry is heading, the Renault Zoe is the first and imo the last ev that will have such a powerful on board charger.

And with induction charging, again can't see a future for it because most people who can;t have cables loose or can't install a charge point will rely on fast charging.

Can,t argue with that, pity.

GreyDad

Apparently in Korea they have experimented with induction charging under the road at junctions, so cars stopped at traffic lights get a small top-up. Do that in enough places including car parks and at home you may not need to plug in to charge ever again.

Not worth the effort or expense. As I say, 150-200 miles range electrics will be available in 2-3 years. So there will in theory be need only for fast charging, all other AC chargers will disappear. And fast charging needs to get faster.

Nissan have been testing 10 min charging for a few years now so hopefully leaf II can charge at 100 Kw, 10 min was probably to charge the current battery to 80% though. Still, if they could fast charge the current battery to 80% in 10 mins I'd say no problem thanks !

Only thing is we know electric range is improving and so will the ability to charge faster so why not install 100 Kw + chargers now ? probably cost ?

reboot

Deleted User wrote: »

Not worth the effort or expense. As I say, 150-200 miles range electrics will be available in 2-3 years. So there will in theory be need only for fast charging, all other AC chargers will disappear. And fast charging needs to get faster.

Nissan have been testing 10 min charging for a few years now so hopefully leaf II can charge at 100 Kw, 10 min was probably to charge the current battery to 80% though. Still, if they could fast charge the current battery to 80% in 10 mins I'd say no problem thanks !

Only thing is we know electric range is improving and so will the ability to charge faster so why not install 100 Kw + chargers now ? probably cost ?

This need for faster and faster charging seems to me to be largely
Leaf owner driven sorry, but I have repeatedly asked the powers that be for 32 KV a CPs in the street, which would be perfectly adequate for my needs, especially given the very poor reliability of our EBP 22 KV a Caps, which may often take 6 or more weeks to repair. I know everyone's needs are different, but as we discussed the day is not far away when money for the projects will run out,with some of our Politicians already calling for the whole project to be scrapped.

cros13

That's one to complain to manufacturers about. Most of the public pedestal chargers offered top out at 22kW.

ESB can't buy what's not on the market and aren't big enough to do special orders.

reboot

reboot wrote: »

This need for faster and faster charging seems to me to be largely
Leaf owner driven sorry, but I have repeatedly asked the powers that be for 32 KV a CPs in the street, which would be perfectly adequate for my needs, especially given the very poor reliability of our EBP 22 KV a Caps, which may often take 6 or more weeks to repair. I know everyone's needs are different, but as we discussed the day is not far away when money for the projects will run out,with some of our Politicians already calling for the whole project to be scrapped.

The thing is though, no other manufacturer will be supporting AC fast charging apart from Zoe and Tesla (who have dual 10Kw chargers as an option), if the majority of EV's sold are ChaDeMo then faster AC charging is not a priority, especially if the industry is heading towards 100 Kw+ DC.

Then factor in twice the range in 2017+ not many people will bother plugging in at normal much slower street chargers, so I can already see the end of standard street charging, a lot of them are broken and take forever to repair, then nearly all Co.Councils have yet to see marking parking bays as EV only a priority meaning most of the normal street AC points are inaccessible anyway.

Then factor in parking fees and most likely paying twice the Peak electricity peak rates, AC public charging will die fast.

People want faster charging and this will only come about with DC. They want to pull up to a charger and charge up in as little time as possible and no AC point will do this.

I agree with you about faster AC charging but lets be honest, to the majority of people who are not ev fans 20,30 or even 40 Kw AC charging is not acceptable.

AC charge points are so much cheaper but DC will come down in the years to come, it's already a lot less than it was in 2011.

The Leaf can replace 50% in about 2 hrs with the 6.6 Kw charger form an AC point which is decent enough for what, 35-40 miles give or take ? so they are useful but finding one that works or not iced is a challenge to say the least.

GreyDad

3.3/6.6/7/11/22kW AC fine for home charging (22kW charges even an S70D Tesla in 4-5 hours) and probably ok for nearly all at-work charging too but outside of that it needs to be fast charging to be useful because here it's most likely going to be in-journey charging that's needed.

Even a 3-400mile car will run out of sparks eventually and if you're at the opposite end of the country on a biz trip all you want to do is charge it up fast so you can get home again.

Nissan and Tesla have got this exactly right with the focus on fast charging on motorway and main trunk routes, that's where you need the chargers, not bimbling around in town on short day hops necessarily.

reboot

GreyDad wrote: »

3.3/6.6/7/11/22kW AC fine for home charging (22kW charges even an S70D Tesla in 4-5 hours) and probably ok for nearly all at-work charging too but outside of that it needs to be fast charging to be useful because here it's most likely going to be in-journey charging that's needed.

Even a 3-400mile car will run out of sparks eventually and if you're at the opposite end of the country on a biz trip all you want to do is charge it up fast so you can get home again.

Nissan and Tesla have got this exactly right with the focus on fast charging on motorway and main trunk routes, that's where you need the chargers, not bimbling around in town on short day hops necessarily.

I spend most of my time "bimbling"? around in the Zoe ,and even with the 22Kva Cps ,normally 40 mins is more than enough to bring me back to a full charge. I agree at the other end of the scale rapid charging is necessary for a lot of folk, but I could manage with a single phase 32 A CP at any old lampost at a cost of around £1k. I believe this means about twenty of these charge points could be placed around the streets, as is the case in many car parks in England, for the price of one Rapid CP. There is room for both types, but with money tight, AC may still win out, as EV become more efficient in their charger mode. Zoe is twice as fast to charge as Leaf on AC.

GreyDad

Agreed.

AC for bimble-charging i.e. shopping, tourists destinations, seaside car parks etc where you're likely to spend at least an hour or more there, and *charge by the kWH* with a surcharge that depends on the rate of the charger used - not much for 3kW, more for 7kW, even more for for 22kW - and add a higher parking rate for the faster chargers to discourage people staying there for a long time. Fr'instance 3-4 hours ok for 3kW, 2 hours for 7kW, one hour for 22kW.

Every EV should be able to charge from 3kW-22kW via a single AC input.

Then add rapid DC charging for zarfing around on the long distance trips or in very high traffic areas where you want to move people through quickly. Same pricing strategy, same discouragement to stay too long - sweet spot should be 30-45 minutes for a rapid.

Appreciate Teslas and newer cars with >24kWH batteries may end up paying more, but should be priced for the masses imho.

GreyDad

One more thing: I'd like to have EV charging costs just added to my electricity bill as a separate item, so i can see it all and include it in my normal monthly payments. I suspect there is probably very little chance of this happening though.

GreyDad

GreyDad wrote: »

One more thing: I'd like to have EV charging costs just added to my electricity bill as a separate item, so i can see it all and include it in my normal monthly payments. I suspect there is probably very little chance of this happening though.

The ESB will charge to your bill over here when they ever get the billing system set up and all the bugs ironed out.

Whether EV charging shows up separately or not I don't know.

GreyDad

I think you have more chance of it happening in Ireland - in the UK it is unbelievably fragmented to the point of being a complete dogs breakfast. I can't believe it's developed the way it has here. Oh wait, yes, it's Westminster, of course it can...

GreyDad

GreyDad wrote: »

I think you have more chance of it happening in Ireland - in the UK it is unbelievably fragmented to the point of being a complete dogs breakfast. I can't believe it's developed the way it has here. Oh wait, yes, it's Westminster, of course it can...

I really do think our system is excellent, one company in control of the chargers , one access card and so many charge points. But we're too small for multiple companies to start installing charge points.

Garage owners are not interested. They won't pay thousands for a single rapid charger.

GreyDad

Deleted User wrote: »

I really do think our system is excellent, one company in control of the chargers , one access card and so many charge points. But we're too small for multiple companies to start installing charge points.

... and if you're going to have multiple companies, at least establish a solid standard for them all to work to ffs.

Garage owners are not interested. They won't pay thousands for a single rapid charger.

They might be when fuel is €1.80/L and most of their customers are driving past them in EV's

GreyDad

GreyDad wrote: »

... and if you're going to have multiple companies, at least establish a solid standard for them all to work to ffs.

Well this CCS charging standard is ridiculous and no doubt making chargers unnecessarily expensive along with the AC for Zoe which is the "only" make of EV that accepts that particular rapid charging standard.

It would drive me mad in the U.K having different access cards for all the charge point providers it's insane, it to me is like going to one petrol station and they accept pounds, another garage accepts Euro's and another Dollars, it's just crazy !

GreyDad wrote: »

They might be when fuel is €1.80/L and most of their customers are driving past them in EV's

Maybe, maybe not. A garage makes most of their money from the shop and not the fuel but I suppose they could charge a premium for electricity and probably so much that it would make petrol and diesel as expensive, they could cash in on the fact that electricity is so cheap. The chargers are so expensive anyway it might be their only way to make it worth while then not to mention having to buy multiple chargers !!!

The majority of charging will be done at home and I hope the Governments make management agencies of apartments, land lords etc allow people install charge points.

If an EV had say a 60 kwh battery for about 220 miles range, that would take about 10-12 hrs to recharge at home at 6 Kw (32 amps)and could be done in probably 1.3 nights over night rate times. Could mean most people will rarely see a rapid charger.