Teacher interfered on my oral

IrishLoriii

...

rainbowtrout

Your teacher didn't interfere. You were complimented. To be fair if you are an A candidate you should be able to handle a question about going to a nightclub and not be relying on a learned off paragraph about your family.

Your teacher wasn't present in the oral interview. The oral examiner was and they choose which questions to ask you.

J Mysterio

I feel for you kid. Teacher should not be doing things like that and should have left you at. The examiner should not have expectations of students prior to testing.

Dont think theres anything you can do about it though... egg her car on your last day?

IrishLoriii

I understand your point but the examiner isn't meant to have any idea of my standard regardless
therefore I think it was extremely unfair of her to tell the examiner? Like there's clearly a reason
why its meant to be anonymous...It was upto the examiner to know my standard and to test me based
on that instead of being told and grilling from the beginning??

vamos!

The question about a nightclub would be commonly asked after your birthday, especially if it was your 18th. Also,lots of candidates don't get asked on school or area. It is only a 12 minute conversation. Finally, what your teacher may or may not have said is completely irrelevant. An examiner is there to do their job and doesn't actually have to heed what your teacher has to say. I know I never entertained any comments on individual students. You might need to be told that Jane is exceptionally nervous or that Joe has been ill for most of the year so you can start easy and gauge from there but that's about it. Put it out of your head now and imagine that you probably did well. A good candidate has to be pushed to prove that they're worthy of an A! A different topic I suppose but it's strange that another teacher from your own school gives you grinds. That doesn't seem at all professional.

rainbowtrout

IrishLoriii wrote: »

I understand your point but the examiner isn't meant to have any idea of my standard regardless
therefore I think it was extremely unfair of her to tell the examiner? Like there's clearly a reason
why its meant to be anonymous...It was upto the examiner to know my standard and to test me based
on that instead of being told and grilling from the beginning??

For what it's worth, I go out to schools examining (not French) and I always have teachers telling me stuff about students and I don't pass a bit of heed on what I'm told.

IrishLoriii

vamos! wrote: »

The question about a nightclub would be commonly asked after your birthday, especially if it was your 18th. Also,lots of candidates don't get asked on school or area. It is only a 12 minute conversation. Finally, what your teacher may or may not have said is completely irrelevant. An examiner is there to do their job and doesn't actually have to heed what your teacher has to say. I know I never entertained any comments on individual students. You might need to be told that Jane is exceptionally nervous or that Joe has been ill for most of the year so you can start easy and gauge from there but that's about it. Put it out of your head now and imagine that you probably did well. A good candidate has to be pushed to prove that they're worthy of an A! A different topic I suppose but it's strange that another teacher from your own school gives you grinds. That doesn't seem at all professional.

Thanks very much for your reply. Another teacher gives me grinds because he understood it was that or pass. He has filled me with confidence and a passion for French. There is 24 people in my class and 18 of us are getting grinds from various people be it other teachers or external French teachers. Her standard of French is great but she cannot teach it and she wont retire which is why the school cant get rid of her...every year theres the same problems with her

vamos!

IrishLoriii wrote: »

Thanks very much for your reply. Another teacher gives me grinds because he understood it was that or pass. He has filled me with confidence and a passion for French. There is 24 people in my class and 18 of us are getting grinds from various people be it other teachers or external French teachers. Her standard of French is great but she cannot teach it and she wont retire which is why the school cant get rid of her...every year theres the same problems with her

I know these things happen but it seems strange that a teacher in your own school is giving grinds within his school. I have never heard of this! A few of my students get grinds because they are struggling with French and are determined to do honours. I don't mind and I give them extra help in my free time but would be absolutely raging if they didn't think I was up to scratch and were given grinds by a colleague. Maybe it's me being strange about it but I would be really peeved.

IrishLoriii

vamos! wrote: »

I know these things happen but it seems strange that a teacher in your own school is giving grinds within his school. I have never heard of this! A few of my students get grinds because they are struggling with French and are determined to do honours. I don't mind and I give them extra help in my free time but would be absolutely raging if they didn't think I was up to scratch and were given grinds by a colleague. Maybe it's me being strange about it but I would be really peeved.

Well its very accepted in my school to do it like its quite a common thing. Some of the teachers just want whats best for the students and if the teacher isn't up to the job then that's not the students fault so why should they suffer if there is another excellent teacher in the school?

retro:electro

Was the examiner tough with everyone or just you? What's the general conscensus? Some oral examiners are that bit tougher than others and try and draw the best from you if they see potential there. Rhyming off the usual family, school, town, birthday stuff isn't going to make you stand out from the rest.

IrishLoriii

anna080 wrote: »

Was the examiner tough with everyone or just you? What's the general conscensus? Some oral examiners are that bit tougher than others and try and draw the best from you if they see potential there. Rhyming off the usual family, school, town, birthday stuff isn't going to make you stand out from the rest.

This examiner only got a handful of us because she was moving onto a different school..Everyone else seemed to get on absolutely fine with her...Honestly I asked everyone and they were happy with there questions because they were the usual basics

retro:electro

IrishLoriii wrote: »

This examiner only got a handful of us because she was moving onto a different school..Everyone else seemed to get on absolutely fine with her...Honestly I asked everyone and they were happy with there questions because they were the usual basics

Well you gave her more than the basics, are you not happy with that?

evolving_doors

IrishLoriii wrote: »

....

This morning my French teacher informed me that she told my
examiner that I was an excellent honours student (I got 42% in the premock, 61% in the actual mock ) who has done ''trojans'' of work and who's accent isn't great but who has worked her socks off at French and is excellent at speaking it. ...(

anna080 wrote: »

Well you gave her more than the basics, are you not happy with that?

I think the OP is essentially not happy about the information provided by the teacher (hence the title). To my mind if you start singing a students praises then you really have an expectation of what they'll be able for, so you might try and 'test' them a little bit more.

Did the teacher say she told the examiner those details before or after the exam OP? How did this come up in conversation?

Is this par for the course for language examiners i.e. to be briefed on every single student to the extent above?

I haven't a clue for languages but I seem to remember my teacher (decades ago) asking the class whether we wanted the examiner to know our level beforehand. I would have thought that each examiner takes the student on their own merits and guides the conversation accordingly, rather than needing a prep. from the teacher on each student's ability.

IrishLoriii

Gebgbegb wrote: »

I think the OP is essentially not happy about the information provided by the teacher (hence the title). To my mind if you start singing a students praises then you really have an expectation of what they'll be able for, so you might try and 'test' them a little bit more.

Did the teacher say she told the examiner those details before or after the exam OP? How did this come up in conversation?

Is this par for the course for language examiners i.e. to be briefed on every single student to the extent above?

I haven't a clue for languages but I seem to remember my teacher (decades ago) asking the class whether we wanted the examiner to know our level beforehand. I would have thought that each examiner takes the student on their own merits and guides the conversation accordingly, rather than needing a prep. from the teacher on each student's ability.

Thank you, you understand my problem! She told me this morning at 9:30am and I was on at 11. Due to this examiner only having 13 of us she told her some stuff about some of the students for example 1 of the girls is repeating the LC as her dad died on the first day of the LC last year so she said she was v.good but be careful not to press with family..then she said another girl was excellent A standard honours but again her father died last year and to be sensitive to the topic and then for some reason she brought me in.
Generally the way it goes is that its a common level exam wer all marked the same and its up to the examiner to assess our level not to be told.

dalta5billion

IrishLoriii wrote: »

Thank you, you understand my problem! She told me this morning at 9:30am and I was on at 11. Due to this examiner only having 13 of us she told her some stuff about some of the students for example 1 of the girls is repeating the LC as her dad died on the first day of the LC last year so she said she was v.good but be careful not to press with family..then she said another girl was excellent A standard honours but again her father died last year and to be sensitive to the topic and then for some reason she brought me in.
Generally the way it goes is that its a common level exam wer all marked the same and its up to the examiner to assess our level not to be told.

Is it possible the examiner had you mixed up with the girl whose dad died and tried to avoid the whole "personal questions" section?

You'll be able to appeal if you felt you didn't get a fair interview.

IrishLoriii

dalta5billion wrote: »

Is it possible the examiner had you mixed up with the girl whose dad died and tried to avoid the whole "personal questions" section?

You'll be able to appeal if you felt you didn't get a fair interview.

I don't think so because I said my dad brings me to school and collected me
from debs :P

rainbowtrout

IrishLoriii wrote: »

This examiner only got a handful of us because she was moving onto a different school..Everyone else seemed to get on absolutely fine with her...Honestly I asked everyone and they were happy with there questions because they were the usual basics

Isn't it also possible that other students who came out happy, came out happy because they were asked easy questions that they had learned off because it became apparent to the examiner early on in the oral that they didn't have the ability for the tougher questions, so asking easier questions meant the student felt they did well but they will possibly get a lower score than you for not having the same level of French?

I've been examining for years and I've had students come into me and getting information out of them has been torturous, so then you have to switch to easier questions. Often when I meet the teacher at the end of the day I get 'Johnny came out of that interview delighted with himself' when the reality is that Johnny hadn't a clue what he was talking about so I gave him easier questions that it was possible for him to answer. However that would also reflect in the grade that he got. But the important bit is that he went out of the interview on a positive note.

I also notice from talking to my own LCs this week (they are doing Irish in my school at the moment) and last week for French and German, that the better students tended to get harder topics where students who would be doing ordinary level were mainly talking about family, school and hobbies.

spurious

That was always how it was in our school too. If you got asked difficult or complicated topics you knew you were doing well.

The teachers in a school giving grinds in their own school is generally a big no-no on the professionalism front.

evolving_doors

I tend to agree with rainbowtrout and leave it up to the examiners professional judgement. It's a primaryobjective to guide the interview to gain the most insight into your ability and gain you the most marks. I'm sure any examiner would take offence at being 'hinted' at how to interview a student by the regular class teacher if that was the case. If another teacher did that to me and I was an examiner I'd just brush it off and smile but in my head I'd be thinking "I'll make my own mind up thank you very much!". Teachers don't usually know the examiners so you can trust that the examiner wants to do things fairly and independently.

dalta5billion

spurious wrote: »

That was always how it was in our school too. If you got asked difficult or complicated topics you knew you were doing well.

The teachers in a school giving grinds in their own school is generally a big no-no on the professionalism front.

Happens in my school. Every year the "bad" teachers' classes end up getting grinds from the same group of teachers, often after school and in a classroom, no less.

It seems more acceptable to do it in Maths and the languages though over any other subjects, as these can be justified by just being "additional practice".

IrishLoriii

spurious wrote: »

That was always how it was in our school too. If you got asked difficult or complicated topics you knew you were doing well.

The teachers in a school giving grinds in their own school is generally a big no-no on the professionalism front.

I can 100% say I go to a brilliant school-over 1000 students
no end to the countless facilities we have etc but there biggest
fault Is not getting rid of teachers who cant teach. Personally,
I think a teacher is someone who wants to educate and help students
as much as they can and I would have more respect for a teacher willing
to help out other students via grinds or extra classes unpaid etc than a
teacher who's unwilling to do this. They clearly have the student as priority which I think is an excellent quality in a teacher.

randylonghorn

I don't think spurious is talking about teachers giving of their own time to provide extra help to their students outside normal hours; I suspect we would all applaud that level of commitment and dedication.

There's something a bit iffy about teachers being paid to give grinds to the students in their own school when they're already being paid to teach them in normal class time though, unless there's unusual circumstances ... e.g. a student who has lost a fair bit of time through illness, or for one reason or another needs additional help which could not reasonably be expected to be provided during normal class time.

In any case, this is a side-issue to the thread, really.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

For what it's worth, I go out to schools examining (not French) and I always have teachers telling me stuff about students and I don't pass a bit of heed on what I'm told.

Gebgbegb wrote: »

If another teacher did that to me and I was an examiner I'd just brush it off and smile but in my head I'd be thinking "I'll make my own mind up thank you very much!".

This.

I've never done any type of oral exams for LC, but I have in other situations not totally dissimilar, and while you sometimes have tutors (with the best of intentions) chattering on about their particular students, I deliberately let it go in one ear and out the other.

The only information I would actually take heed of would be if there is an actual disability or something like that which I would need to be aware of; I wouldn't even take much heed of being told a particular student is inclined to be nervous, as I assume that EVERY student will be nervous, and would make an effort to put everyone at their ease when they come in, insofar as time constraints will allow.

EoghanIRL

Examiners are professionals.
It would be unprofessional to go into an exam bias towards asking the student more complicated/difficult questions based on a remark a teacher made.

If you were at an A1 standard then you would achieve it no matter what questions they asked you as they base all their questions on a curriculum.

You can always appeal the oral if you think it is a major problem. Otherwise it seems as if you made this thread to rant because your oral didn't go as planned!

Advice: get over it and focus on the rest of your exams.

robman60

I know it seems harsh now but your oral doesn't seem to unusual. It's meant to be a conversation, not just you giving 12 minutes of learnt off paragraphs you've prepared.

evolving_doors

EoghanIRL wrote: »

Examiners are professionals.
It would be unprofessional to go into an exam bias towards asking the student more complicated/difficult questions based on a remark a teacher made.

If you were at an A1 standard then you would achieve it no matter what questions they asked you as they base all their questions on a curriculum.

You can always appeal the oral if you think it is a major problem. Otherwise it seems as if you made this thread to rant because your oral didn't go as planned!

Advice: get over it and focus on the rest of your exams.

In fairness though I'd be a little peeved if my teacher had singled me out to 'have a little chat' about with the examiner. Also the OP is inexperienced of the actual oral exam itself so mightn't be aware of the examiner 'pushing' things a bit.

I think the OP is justifiably posing the question WHY "the teacher interfered " (irrespective of what actually happened). Maybe the OP is thinking that the teacher is trying to subvert the OP's efforts purposefully because they are a bit slighted at the fact that some other teacher is obviously getting him the better grades!

From this perspective, that's why I'd be wondering what was the possible reason for the teacher to single the OP out and allegedly 'set them up' with a difficult oral (even though that might not be the case at all).

In any event OP, the examiner is used to closing their ears to anything that might influence them (unless it's medical or family problems etc). They get what they want to get from the oral exam itself and nothing beyond from beyond the door.

spurious

Just to clarify - by teachers giving grinds to students in their own schools I meant paid grinds. Teachers helping students out for free is often part of the job.

Magnate

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Isn't it also possible that other students who came out happy, came out happy because they were asked easy questions that they had learned off because it became apparent to the examiner early on in the oral that they didn't have the ability for the tougher questions, so asking easier questions meant the student felt they did well but they will possibly get a lower score than you for not having the same level of French?

I've been examining for years and I've had students come into me and getting information out of them has been torturous, so then you have to switch to easier questions. Often when I meet the teacher at the end of the day I get 'Johnny came out of that interview delighted with himself' when the reality is that Johnny hadn't a clue what he was talking about so I gave him easier questions that it was possible for him to answer. However that would also reflect in the grade that he got. But the important bit is that he went out of the interview on a positive note.

I also notice from talking to my own LCs this week (they are doing Irish in my school at the moment) and last week for French and German, that the better students tended to get harder topics where students who would be doing ordinary level were mainly talking about family, school and hobbies.

Thanks for that, it's reassuring to know. A lot of my friends came out saying they got asked all the usual easy questions and that was throwing me off because my examiner just jumped right into the more difficult ones and didn't stop, despite the fact that I was making a mess of them, or so I thought at least.

I'm just curious though, how do teachers just bring up particular students when talking to you? It seems a bit strange to me that it would just come up in conversation naturally. Are they purposely trying to get you to take notice of certain students or what?

tuisginideach

I'd say the examiner let in in one ear and out the other. I used to examine c100 pupils during the Orals week and I made up my mind mydelf about each student. Obviously if a teacher alerted me to a student's personal problem, I'd be alert to that but otherwise I'd have no interest in taking on board who had worked and who hadn't - that was not my concern.

Don't waste any more time even thinking about it.

rainbowtrout

Magnate wrote: »

Thanks for that, it's reassuring to know. A lot of my friends came out saying they got asked all the usual easy questions and that was throwing me off because my examiner just jumped right into the more difficult ones and didn't stop, despite the fact that I was making a mess of them, or so I thought at least.

I'm just curious though, how do teachers just bring up particular students when talking to you? It seems a bit strange to me that it would just come up in conversation naturally. Are they purposely trying to get you to take notice of certain students or what?

I'd imagine if you were making a pig's ear of it, then you would have been given something easier to talk about.

Teachers just getting chatting. It's easy to get into small talk when you are doing the admin. 'You have a lovely school, is there many doing LC?'

e.g. You have a big class there.
Teacher: Oh, ya They're a good bunch, most are doing HL but there's a few weaker ones in there. Johnny Murphy there is a good lad, but he finds Irish tough'

I'd say some teachers don't even realise they do it, of course they can do the opposite of the above as well. They've seen a student work hard all year like the OP and are just bursting to sing their praises, maybe just because they want them to do as well as they deserve for the effort they put in all year or in the case of the weaker student to hope that they are given every chance to show what they do know.

Macavity.

Bad form. A degree of professionalism wouldn't go amiss with some teachers.

Nero707

Since this topic was already open, how much are examiners supposed to know about the students before they go in for the orals?

Troxck

Nero707 wrote: »

Since this topic was already open, how much are examiners supposed to know about the students before they go in for the orals?

Very little. Obviously, if the student has a speech impediment etc. then the examiner would have to be aware of that. Also cases where maybe a close family member died recently, the examiner would be asked to be sensitive about brining about the topic of family and relations. Apart from that, nothing.

dalta5billion

Have to say I was surprised to hear that some teachers in our place were eavesdropping on students' orals at the door - although it probably came from a good place, wanting to know how their students were getting on...