Why should Christians vote for homosexual civil marriage ?

a postere

Other than a thread about the Catholic Archbishop's statement, there's not really a relevant thread open on the Christianity forum for this important issue coming up to the referendum. So we may as well have one.

Now personally, I couldn't care less what non Christians do, but apparently some how I have a right to vote in the upcoming referendum the same as everyone else, and as far as I can tell, I have a right to vote no if I so choose as well.

Personally I haven't decided yet, mainly because I've yet to see any valid and honest arguments from the Yes side as to why Christians should vote Yes.

So off you go, why should Christians vote yes ?

What are the personal repercussions for Christians who decide to vote no in the current climate ?

3rdDegree

I didn't thing Jesus ever mentioned any aversion to homosexuality. I could be wrong, but don't recall ever seeing that in the bible.

Personally, I'll vote yes because I see no harm I same sex marriage.

Gmol

a postere wrote: »

Other than a thread about the Catholic Archbishop's statement, there's not really a relevant thread open on the Christianity forum for this important issue coming up to the referendum. So we may as well have one.

Now personally, I couldn't care less what non Christians do, but apparently some how I have a right to vote in the upcoming referendum the same as everyone else, and as far as I can tell, I have a right to vote no if I so choose as well.

Personally I haven't decided yet, mainly because I've yet to see a valid and honest arguments from the Yes side as to why Christians should vote Yes.

So off you go, why should Christians vote yes ?

What are the personal repercussions for Christians who decide to vote no in the current climate ?

Because it's the Christian thing to do?

Nick Park

a postere wrote: »

Other than a thread about the Catholic Archbishop's statement, there's not really a relevant thread open on the Christianity forum for this important issue coming up to the referendum. So we may as well have one.

Now personally, I couldn't care less what non Christians do, but apparently some how I have a right to vote in the upcoming referendum the same as everyone else, and as far as I can tell, I have a right to vote no if I so choose as well.

Personally I haven't decided yet, mainly because I've yet to see a valid and honest arguments from the Yes side as to why Christians should vote Yes.

So off you go, why should Christians vote yes ?

What are the personal repercussions for Christians who decide to vote no in the current climate ?

I won't be voting at all as I'll be in Jerusalem on May 22nd.

But I know some Christians who plan to vote 'yes' on the basis that civil marriage is already unrecognisable as anything like 'marriage' as a biblical or Christian concept.

What are the personal repercussions for Christians who decide to vote no in the current climate ?

None whatsoever, since the ballot is secret and nobody will know how you voted.

a postere

3rdDegree wrote: »

I didn't thing Jesus ever mentioned any aversion to homosexuality. I could be wrong, but funny recall ever seeing that in the bible.

Jesus didn't mention lots of things, e.g. taking drugs, but that does not mean he endorsed taking them by not mentioning them. He did say marriage was between a man and a woman.

a postere

Gmol wrote: »

Because it's the Christian thing to do?

How so, how is homosexual marriage the Christian thing to do ?

a postere

Nick Park wrote: »

But I know some Christians who plan to vote 'yes' on the basis that civil marriage is already unrecognisable as anything like 'marriage' as a biblical or Christian concept.

Lots of things are unrecognisable as anything like a biblical or Christian concept, and if that's the case, why does that mean Christians should vote for them ?

SparkySpitfire

I suppose glaringly obvious benefit is that they will get to see their siblings, cousins, friends etc. get married and share their special day with them safe in the knowledge that they will enjoy the same rights and responsibilities currently afforded to them.

Sure they could attend the civil partnership, but the end result of civil marriage and civil partnership is different.

As you wave the couples in question off on their respective honeymoons, the people in the civil partnership will come back to their "shared home" where they cannot rest easy in the knowledge that they are protected by law. The couple in the civil marriage on the other hand will come back to their "family home" to enjoy the same legal status as the rest of their friends and family. More than that, the word marriage itself evokes images of love and commitment that partnership just cannot cover, it sounds like a business relationship rather than one built on love.

Day to day, as a Christian it won't make any difference to you or me or most of the population. Same-sex marriages will not be religious affairs, just like the marriage of two Atheists would be now. But for the sake of my family and friends whom it will effect, I will vote yes to have a positive effect on their lives.

thisistough

a postere wrote: »

Jesus didn't mention lots of things, e.g. taking drugs, but that does not mean he endorsed taking them by not mentioning them. He did say marriage was between a man and a woman.

The bible also prohibits wearing clothes made of two separate types of cloth.

The fact is that we cannot live life now as dictated by a book written 2000 years ago.

This is the civil rights issue of our time. Can you image if your grandparents were to tell you that they voted that coloured people and caucasian people should not be allowed to marry as that is what their faith had told them was right? Imagine explaining to your grandchildren in 50 years time that you helped to deny to people the right to get married because of a line in a book that you believed told you it was wrong.

Ireland has been a very backward country for a very long time. We now have a chance to be the first country in the world to allow for same sex marriage as a result of a referendum. I just hope that our faith doesn't stand in the way of progress.

ziedth

a postere wrote: »

How so, how is homosexual marriage the Christian thing to do ?

How about do onto others as you would done onto you?

a postere

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

I suppose glaringly obvious benefit is that they will get to see their siblings, cousins, friends etc. get married and share their special day with them safe in the knowledge that they will enjoy the same rights and responsibilities currently afforded to them.

I get to see that already, unless you mean I'll also never get to see two bothers who love one r three siblings married etc.

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

Sure they could attend the civil partnership, but the end result of civil marriage and civil partnership is different.

It's only difference because the Government deliberately chose not to extend all the rights of marriage to civil partnerships, when they could easily have done so.

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

As you wave the couples in question off on their respective honeymoons, the people in the civil partnership will come back to their "shared home" where they cannot rest easy in the knowledge that they are protected by law. The couple in the civil marriage on the other hand will come back to their "family home" to enjoy the same legal status as the rest of their friends and family. More than that, the word marriage itself evokes images of love and commitment that partnership just cannot cover, it sounds like a business relationship rather than one built on love.

I don't think you should be trying to degrade all those heterosexual couples who have opted for civil partnership instead of marriage over the years.

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

Day to day, as a Christian it won't make any difference to you or me or most of the population. Same-sex marriages will not be religious affairs, just like the marriage of two Atheists would be now. But for the sake of my family and friends whom it will effect, I will vote yes to have a positive effect on their lives.

Lots of things that I voted on over the years didn't affect me, why should I have voted for them as well ?

a postere

ziedth wrote: »

How about do onto others as you would done onto you?

Why would I want to do homosexual marriage ?

SparkySpitfire

a postere wrote: »

He did say marriage was between a man and a woman.

Yeah the Bible does say that. The definition of Christian marriage in the sacred text of Christianity is that it must be between a man and a woman.

But the thing is, this referendum is about civil marriage, it will have no effect whatsoever on religious marriage ceremonies or their meaning.

The only thing a yes vote will achieve is that those who wish to have their marriage legally recognised and protected by the state will be able to do so. It will afford same-sex couples the same rights and responsibilities as opposite sex couples currently have.

You may think that having them on equal footing legally diminishes the meaning of your religious ceremony but it doesn't. It only gives equality in the eyes of the law not of your Church or belief system. This is why it is important to see this referendum for what it is, a matter of state. The sanctity of Christian marriage will remain intact.

a postere

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

Yeah the Bible does say that. The definition of Christian marriage in the sacred text of Christianity is that it must be between a man and a woman.

But the thing is, this referendum is about civil marriage, it will have no effect whatsoever on religious marriage ceremonies or their meaning.

The only thing a yes vote will achieve is that those who wish to have their marriage legally recognised and protected by the state will be able to do so. It will afford same-sex couples the same rights and responsibilities as opposite sex couples currently have.

You may think that having them on equal footing legally diminishes the meaning of your religious ceremony but it doesn't. It only gives equality in the eyes of the law not of your Church or belief system. This is why it is important to see this referendum for what it is, a matter of state. The sanctity of Christian marriage will remain intact.

I don't know how you claim to know what I think, but lots of things I've voted on don't affect other things, why is that a reason to vote for them ?

SparkySpitfire

a postere wrote: »

I get to see that already, unless you mean I'll also never get to see two bothers who love one r three siblings married etc.

In some religious sects, you can see that very thing. Good luck getting a state to recognise it though!

It's only difference because the Government deliberately chose not to extend all the rights of marriage to civil partnerships, when they could easily have done so.

This is true, now they're taking the next step and asking the people should they go ahead and extend the rights. Would you prefer to not be asked?

I don't think you should be trying to degrade all those heterosexual couples who have opted for civil partnership instead of marriage over the years.

The thing is, in Ireland they don't have a choice. They don't get to "choose" civil partnership, they take it either because it's the closest step to marriage at the moment or because they don't mind about the state and legal protections of their current situation.

Lots of things that I voted on over the years didn't affect me, why should I have voted for them as well ?

Because they've affected people you know and will affect future generations. What kind of Ireland would you have going into the future? Voting isn't compulsory you don't have to choose either way if you feel you don't want to.

ziedth

a postere wrote: »

Why would I want to do homosexual marriage ?

I feel you know full I mean but let's say you are currently married or want to someday marry someone you love. I assume if the public for some reason had to vote to allow that to happen you would like them to allow you to marry the person you love ya?

Perhaps thousands of people deserve the same respect regardless of how you feel about it?

SparkySpitfire

a postere wrote: »

I don't know how you claim to know what I think, but lots of things I've voted on don't affect other things, why is that a reason to vote for them ?

I meant you in a general sense. Question answered in my other post. However it is interesting that you say despite having no effect on you, you have voted in other past referenda - why did you then?

a postere

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

I meant you in a general sense. Question answered in my other post. However it is interesting that you say despite having no effect on you, you have voted in other past referenda - why did you then?

Because I had a right to vote the same as everyone else, am I not supposed to do my democratic duty and vote ? Why should I not vote ?

SparkySpitfire

a postere wrote: »

Because I had a right to vote the same as everyone else, am I not supposed to do my democratic duty and vote ? Why should I not vote ?

If you already know the answer then why are you asking the question "Why should I vote on something that doesn't affect me?"?

EDIT: here's your actual word-for-word quote:

Lots of things that I voted on over the years didn't affect me, why should I have voted for them as well

Seems like you've answered your own question there.

MarkSRFC21

Why shouldn't they?

Turtwig

Closing this as we already have a megathread for discussion of this LGBT issues.

A postere is on permanent holidays.