No Sick Pay from company

soapbloggs

Hi,

I'm concerned about a friend who works in a full time job with set hours but like all employees isn't entitled to sick pay. This is a family man and has a mortgage and young family to take care of. Last year he collapsed from exhaustion and took the minimum time off before rushing back. Now he's working whilst suffering from bronchitis but he won't take time off for fear of losing too much income. Like many families things are quite tight, they can't even afford health insurance. I checked out Income Protection Insurance but this only covers you for medium or long term sickness... won't give you a dime for the first few weeks of sickness. State benefits are too low to meet the bills obviously. So are there any options for short term sick pay?

This guy has looked for other jobs by the way, so it's not for want of trying to change his situation. I really think there should be laws to protect employees of multi-billion euro multi-nationals from not having to pay for sick pay, it's hardly a start up that needs supporting this way. Makes me sick!

WildCardDoW

soapbloggs wrote: »

Makes me sick!

Hope you don't work there as well!

It sucks and it really should become standard to pay for a small amount of days of sick leave but smaller businesses would find this hard.

Sunny Dayz

Why should his employer have to pay him when he's out sick and also have to pay for someone to cover for him or incur the cost of his absence ie decrease in productivity?


He pays his PRSI, that's what the Social Welfare Illness Benefit is for. Maybe also check out family income supplement. I know you say he has bills to pay but rushing back to work/ working when you are ill won't help him recover properly, he should take the few extra days unpaid and get better - if he is the main/sole earner in the household he really does need to look after himself.

falan

soapbloggs wrote: »

Hi,

I'm concerned about a friend who works in a full time job with set hours but like all employees isn't entitled to sick pay. This is a family man and has a mortgage and young family to take care of. Last year he collapsed from exhaustion and took the minimum time off before rushing back. Now he's working whilst suffering from bronchitis but he won't take time off for fear of losing too much income. Like many families things are quite tight, they can't even afford health insurance. I checked out Income Protection Insurance but this only covers you for medium or long term sickness... won't give you a dime for the first few weeks of sickness. State benefits are too low to meet the bills obviously. So are there any options for short term sick pay?

This guy has looked for other jobs by the way, so it's not for want of trying to change his situation. I really think there should be laws to protect employees of multi-billion euro multi-nationals from not having to pay for sick pay, it's hardly a start up that needs supporting this way. Makes me sick!

Im in the workforce for 20 years and never got a days sick pay. That's in both Ireland and the UK.

Reati

soapbloggs wrote: »

I really think there should be laws to protect employees of multi-billion euro multi-nationals from not having to pay for sick pay, it's hardly a start up that needs supporting this way. Makes me sick!

I work in a multi-billion euro multi-national. They pay sick pay and treat us as employees incredibly well. I think you'll find most of the multi-billion euro multi-nationals here do. Now it might be an industry thing. Some are better than others I bet and I'd also bet it's the small to medium home grown business that normally doesn't as many likely can't afford it.

soapbloggs

@ Wildcard. No, I don't fortunately. I used to live in Switzerland which has a compulsory sickness insurance scheme. The employer contributes and also automatically deducts from your pay into this scheme. It's 8% of your salary but covers you fully from day 1 for any duration for 100% of your salary. I guess this means that the employer, even if it's a small business is protected too.

Michael D Not Higgins

To be honest, if a few days unpaid sick leave is going to sink his finances, he needs to reconsider his family budget. All budgeting advice would suggest at least a few months backup in savings for such eventualities.

falan

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

To be honest, if a few days unpaid sick leave is going to sink his finances, he needs to reconsider his family budget. All budgeting advice would suggest at least a few months backup in savings for such eventualities.

A few months backup? Id say for the average person in the real world this is just a dream.

Michael D Not Higgins

falan wrote: »

A few months backup? Id say for the average person in the real world this is just a dream.

The average person in the real world saves for a rainy day. I can comfortably live for at least a year on my 'rainy day' savings.

I'm not saying it's easy. You have to plan and cut back in some areas so you have a little left over each month. Over time this builds up into your backup fund. If you have nothing left each month or carrying bills over on credit cards, etc. then you need to restructure your finances.

falan

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

The average person in the real world saves for a rainy day. I can comfortably live for at least a year on my 'rainy day' savings.

Good for you. Its not many people who could comfortably live for a year on savings. Your either in a very well paid job or you are still living at home with the parents with no other outgoings apart from the 50 euro you hand up every week.

ahnowbrowncow

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

The average person in the real world saves for a rainy day. I can comfortably live for at least a year on my 'rainy day' savings.

I'm not saying it's easy. You have to plan and cut back in some areas so you have a little left over each month. Over time this builds up into your backup fund. If you have nothing left each month or carrying bills over on credit cards, etc. then you need to restructure your finances.

You're coming across as quite naive. There are a lot of families out there who only have one person working that job supports the entire family and pays every bill.

It's quite conceivable that someone like that is already on a very tight budget and mssing a few hundred euro puts them in difficulty.

Michael D Not Higgins

falan wrote: »

Good for you. Its not many people who could comfortably live for a year on savings. Your either in a very well paid job or you are still living at home with the parents with no other outgoings apart from the 50 euro you hand up every week.

Ha, far from it. I emigrated because of the recession but I'm in a decently paid job now. I'm not in a very well paid job, I just haven't exceeded my means, which has allowed me to save.

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

You're coming across as quite naive. There are a lot of families out there who only have one person working that job supports the entire family and pays every bill.

It's quite conceivable that someone like that is already on a very tight budget and mssing a few hundred euro puts them in difficulty.

These things don't just happen suddenly. Pay cuts, extra taxes, etc. don't all materialise in an instant forcing you to suddenly have no money. Sure, I don't have all the details, maybe the wife was working and lost her job forcing them to live on a much tighter budget. Maybe they're caring for an elderly relative, who knows?

The point is before all the hardships arrived, they should have been saving and setting aside money for any problems. As soon as he was sick last year and found he couldn't afford it, he should have sorted something then. A year's worth of modest saving could have saved this issue.

Gavster1982

Some companies pay OSP...increasingly fewer though....

Its my belief that SSP should be the norm and that the 3 day rule should remain as otehrwise productivity would be destroyed and everyone would be abusing it...

if your sick your sick...eat healthy, speak to your company re workplace stress etc. They are obliged to seek ways to reduce stress and sickness and you should request flexible working hours...

otherwise...man up

Mrs OBumble

soapbloggs wrote: »

@ Wildcard. No, I don't fortunately. I used to live in Switzerland which has a compulsory sickness insurance scheme. The employer contributes and also automatically deducts from your pay into this scheme. It's 8% of your salary but covers you fully from day 1 for any duration for 100% of your salary. I guess this means that the employer, even if it's a small business is protected too.

Ireland has this too. It's called PRSI.

But the rate that employees pay is lower (max on 7%, but lower paid workers pay either 4% or nothing). And the benefits aren't nearly as generous (nothing for the first five days, 188-ish for up to 90 days after that, and means-tested after that).

Mrs OBumble

falan wrote: »

Good for you. Its not many people who could comfortably live for a year on savings.

As an adult, it's simply good risk management to have a few weeks living money available in the bank, just in case an emergency happens. (You get sick, a family member dies unempectedly, the company closes down, there's a flood et .. whatever go wrong.).

Here in Ireland, even if you are entitled to social welfare, it can be quite some weeks before payments begin through, so I normally think it should be around 12 weeks.

jester77

falan wrote: »

Good for you. Its not many people who could comfortably live for a year on savings. Your either in a very well paid job or you are still living at home with the parents with no other outgoings apart from the 50 euro you hand up every week.

Welcome to world of how to be a responsible adult. Everyone should have at the very least a few months of savings that they can use in an emergency. More so, if you have a family. Read anything out there on responsible finances and this will always be in there.

Tar.Aldarion

Reati wrote: »

I work in a multi-billion euro multi-national. They pay sick pay and treat us as employees incredibly well. I think you'll find most of the multi-billion euro multi-nationals here do. Now it might be an industry thing. Some are better than others I bet and I'd also bet it's the small to medium home grown business that normally doesn't as many likely can't afford it.

I work for an Irish smaller company and get sick paid too, just depends on the particular company. I find that companies that look after their employees do better, as can be seen by the incredibly low turnover here (in an industry with high turnover).

soapbloggs

I think it would be best if there were some kind of mandatory insurance scheme that isn't part of the welfare system. Pays out immediately the equivalent of one's salary should one be sick.

I found the Swiss system straight forward, contributions are paid into a mandatory insurance scheme and everyone gets paid fully if sick through their salary. No fuss, no delays, employer isn't bothered either as it's not their money. There were rules that prevented you totally abusing the system though, repetitively sick for a couple of days and so on.

soapbloggs

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I work for an Irish smaller company and get sick paid too, just depends on the particular company. I find that companies that look after their employees do better, as can be seen by the incredibly low turnover here (in an industry with high turnover).

I couldn't agree more, this has been my experience too!

JTL

I worked in a multi national for years that gave us six months full pay when off sick. Unfortunately it was used and abused by a huge minority of the workforce.

Guy:Incognito

Could he not use holiday days if he needs a couple of days rest?

Michael D Not Higgins

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Could he not use holiday days if he needs a couple of days rest?

I worked for a semi-state at one stage but was on contract. I didn't get paid sick days like the permanent staff and took a day once as annual leave which was all fine and above board.

On the other hand I heard of a particular permanent employee who attempted to schedule one of his self certified sick leave days for the following week. His manager at the time (who was also on contract with me) said they're only for when you're sick. The guy's response, 'Nah they're my extra holidays.' :rolleyes:

Arbiter of Good Taste

soapbloggs wrote: »

I think it would be best if there were some kind of mandatory insurance scheme that isn't part of the welfare system. Pays out immediately the equivalent of one's salary should one be sick.

I found the Swiss system straight forward, contributions are paid into a mandatory insurance scheme and everyone gets paid fully if sick through their salary. No fuss, no delays, employer isn't bothered either as it's not their money. There were rules that prevented you totally abusing the system though, repetitively sick for a couple of days and so on.

Why mandatory? As a few posters said above, most responsible adults have at least a small rainy day fund to cover these unexpected costs.

_Brian

I never realised so many companies don't pay sick days.
I've been in employment 25 years in a range of jobs and thankfully always had sick pay, never overused it though.

I think this person needs to visit their local SW officer when things are tight and see what can be done.

Saving money for a rainy day is important but is also near impossible for people living hand to mouth as many are now.

soapbloggs

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Why mandatory? As a few posters said above, most responsible adults have at least a small rainy day fund to cover these unexpected costs.

I don't know why it is mandatory. All I know is that the Swiss are workaholics, they would nearly die than take sick leave, perhaps the government doesn't want to encourage them. The unemployment system is similar, they get paid 70% of their former salary if they lose their job. I guess Swiss like stability, they know that they can continue to pay bills, rent etc. If they don't, it could affect other people and perhaps be negative for society and the economy if it happens enough.

I guess its a sort of government intervention v personal responsibility argument with regard to a preference of system. I was disgusted that his company didn't pay sick leave because in my life, I've never worked for an organisation that didn't pay it. I was quite surprised to hear that less companies do this nowadays. I've even worked on Zero Hour Contracts and got sick pay.