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The wonderful world of Microgeneration in Ireland

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  • 16-04-2015 11:41pm
    #1
    cros13
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭


    Just reading over the SEAI's FAQ (http://www.seai.ie/Renewables/Microgeneration/Microgeneration_FAQ/#exported)

    Some highlights:
    Will I get paid for electricity exported to the grid?
    Currently there are no export tariffs being offered for micro- generated electricity.



    Can I sell any excess power I don't need to a neighbour or can we chip in for one turbine between us?
    You must be licensed to supply electricity in Ireland. The requirements for such a licence would be sufficiently onerous and expensive to make it non-viable at the smaller scales. Furthermore, supplying electricity from a generator on one person's land to a second person's premises across a boundary is illegal under Irish legislation covering direct lines and private networks.



    What are the tax implications when buying a turbine and generating some of my own electricity?
    There is currently no scheme of tax relief for individuals or domestic users who invest in their own on-site generation.



    Is there a grant available for installing a small wind turbine or other form of microgeneration?
    At present there is no national grant or deployment programme available towards the cost of installing a domestic or small business scale wind turbine, PV cells, micro-hydro or micro-CHP unit.
    The low-usage sucharge will apply to customers who use an average of 2 units (2kWhs) or less per day in any billing period (typically 61 days). Standing Charges will be increased by 15.5 cent (incl. VAT) per day or €9.45 (incl. VAT) per two monthly bill.

    So you give the grid free electricity at peak hours, and you get charged €9.45 for the privilege. An Irish solution to an Irish problem right there.

    And as an extra bonus, if you were "lucky" enough to get the 9c feed-in tariff when it was available (existing exporters lose it in December) you have to pay full tax (for many people at least 58%) on your "earnings".

    I'm starting to think that the Irish State is just some kind of scheme to make emigration to Australia look appealing.


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    #2
    18MonthsaSlave
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 574 ✭✭✭18MonthsaSlave


    I was looking at a house which has had no electricity supply for over two years. The costs for recertifying and reconnection are huge and would get you toward "off-grid" state fairly quickly.
    Maybe they are being cruel to be kind and want to incentivise complete off-grid solutions(I don't believe this).


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    #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't care about the numbers or the incentives. This post was powered 100% by photons.


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    #4
    cros13
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭cros13


    Sir Liamalot wrote: »
    I don't care about the numbers or the incentives. This post was powered 100% by photons.

    Okay, but the economics matter. With a feed-in tariff all you have to build your system for is average usage. Without a feed-in tariff you either need enough panels and batteries to meet your peak use or cheap enough that it doesn't matter provided your usage is at the right time.

    In the latter case, the panels and inverters aren't that cheap yet. Plus my daytime base load is under 170W.

    My electric cars for example have to charge at night and draw up to 15kW, plus maybe another 5kW at the same time for the washing machine and dishwasher.
    So at current prices I'd need €30k to 40k of batteries and at least an 11kW array of panels.

    With a feed-in tariff 4-5KW would do.

    Or I could maybe move to China, where the feed-in tariff is 15c, or Bulgaria where it's 40c or even Slovakia where the tariff is 45c/kWh.


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    #5
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    cros13 wrote: »
    Okay, but the economics matter. With a feed-in tariff all you have to build your system for is average usage. Without a feed-in tariff you either need enough panels and batteries to meet your peak use or cheap enough that it doesn't matter provided your usage is at the right time.

    In the latter case, the panels and inverters aren't that cheap yet. Plus my daytime base load is under 170W.

    My electric cars for example have to charge at night and draw up to 15kW, plus maybe another 5kW at the same time for the washing machine and dishwasher.
    So at current prices I'd need €30k to 40k of batteries and at least an 11kW array of panels.

    With a feed-in tariff 4-5KW would do.

    Or I could maybe move to China, where the feed-in tariff is 15c, or Bulgaria where it's 40c or even Slovakia where the tariff is 45c/kWh.

    Could you not just stick your washing machine and dishwasher on a timer - so they work during the day.? Probably be cheaper than moving to Slovakia ? :-)
    And you won't have to learn Slovakian !
    ( yes , that would still leave you stuck with your electric cars - wind turbine ?

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #6
    cros13
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭cros13


    Markcheese wrote: »
    Could you not just stick your washing machine and dishwasher on a timer - so they work during the day.? Probably be cheaper than moving to Slovakia ? :-)
    And you won't have to learn Slovakian !
    ( yes , that would still leave you stuck with your electric cars - wind turbine ?

    Well the dishwasher only uses 2 kwh/day, the cars use closer to 40 kwh/day.
    A 5 kW wind turbine costs €22,000 excl. groundworks (four times what 5 kW of PV costs) and given average wind speeds of 7m/s ( which conservatively would result in the turbine outputting 35-40% of rated output ) I'd only need around €200,000 to pay for the inverters, batteries and six turbines to charge the cars. And then what happens on days I have no wind, or more than the average wind?

    Or... Electric Ireland / Airtricity / whoever could pay me market rate for the electricity from €6000 worth of solar PV during their time of peak demand. And I can buy power from them at night when they have lots of spare capacity from wind and idling power stations.


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    #7
    Ofenbauer
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭Ofenbauer


    I specifically asked Electric Ireland about this question
    Hi the esb tells me this is a billing query hence I should be asking you guys.
    My understanding is that electric Ireland looks after the microgeneration and my question is about how this is billed/calculated when I export some electricity to the grid.

    Is it offset against my usage or do I just give it away for free?

    I got this back >>


    Hi ,

    Thanks for your email. Your tracking number is {IrecNo:[405988185]}.

    Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience caused.I can confirm that this is offset against your electricity usage, hence the cost of your bill will be reduced.
    If you have any further queries on the matter, please contact us directly on 1850 372 372 or email service
    Kind regards, Electric Ireland

    If this is true I could live with that, effectively cheap back up or am I mistaken?


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