EO v AO Public Sector

job124hunt

I’m a relatively recent recruit to the public sector and trying to suss out the progression/promotion paths which people tend to follow in the public sector.
Obviously, CO-EO-HEO, is what I’d thought would be the usual promotion route but where does AO fit into all of this?
I understand the pay is better than EO, but not as good as HEO, so I assume how AO is perceived by senior management is similar?
Having spoken to others in the public sector, getting into management seems to be the priority for many, so do people tend to apply for jobs/promotions that fit their interests or purely based on pay/grade? (To be honest I don’t know if management would be for me!)
The reason I ask is I’ve looked at the EO/AO pay grades and while there isn’t much of a difference starting out, the top of the scale is better.
Are AO’s prominent in the bigger departments like Social Welfare as opposed to small parts of the public sector?
Any AO’s or people with insight in a position to fill in the blanks for me, much appreciated.

FloatingVoter

From distant memory....and I expect to be corrected on this. AO's tend to be specialists (ie. accountants in Finance, IT grads in any dept.). The ultimate goal in terms of climbing the greasy pole is APO - PO to asst. Secretary and beyond. At some point managing people will come into play, so having run a crew of say 10 people as EO, 40 as HEO you'll have a distinct advantage when it comes to moving into upper management.

KCC

job124hunt wrote: »

I’m a relatively recent recruit to the public sector and trying to suss out the progression/promotion paths which people tend to follow in the public sector.
Obviously, CO-EO-HEO, is what I’d thought would be the usual promotion route but where does AO fit into all of this?
I understand the pay is better than EO, but not as good as HEO, so I assume how AO is perceived by senior management is similar?
Having spoken to others in the public sector, getting into management seems to be the priority for many, so do people tend to apply for jobs/promotions that fit their interests or purely based on pay/grade? (To be honest I don’t know if management would be for me!)
The reason I ask is I’ve looked at the EO/AO pay grades and while there isn’t much of a difference starting out, the top of the scale is better.
Are AO’s prominent in the bigger departments like Social Welfare as opposed to small parts of the public sector?
Any AO’s or people with insight in a position to fill in the blanks for me, much appreciated.

Look up hr.gov.ie. administrative officers are one grade above EO. You need a 2.1 degree or higher to be an AO and the selection process is gruelling. The entry requirement for Eos is a good leaving cert or a pass degree.

AOs eventually end up on same pay as HeOs. Eos report to AOs in some departments. AOs are seen as equivalent to HEO - for example particularly for the purposes of decentralisation transfers a few years ago. AOs may have more likelihood of being promoted - they are informally seen as an AP in training. In the past AOs were automatically promoted to AP after a certain length of service. Having said that, things are changing. There are more AOs now than ever so they the grade is not as prestigious as it had been in the past.

Tldr: go for the AO.

KCC

FloatingVoter wrote: »

From distant memory....and I expect to be corrected on this. AO's tend to be specialists (ie. accountants in Finance, IT grads in any dept.). The ultimate goal in terms of climbing the greasy pole is APO - PO to asst. Secretary and beyond. At some point managing people will come into play, so having run a crew of say 10 people as EO, 40 as HEO you'll have a distinct advantage when it comes to moving into upper management.

There are also generalist AOs. Also aos can also manage staff but it's not necessarily what they were recruited for.

The Veteran

If you want to progress to AP and PO etc you are better off (traditionally) starting as an AO as it will allow you to push for an APO post earlier\sooner than if you join as an EO.

There are relatively few AOs in the Service ... Maybe 0.5% or even less of the total number of,civil servants. When I was young, say in the late eighties and into the middle of the nineties, AOs were concentrated in the Dept of Finance and would be promoted to AP after three years and definitely within 5. AOs are now more prevalent than the. And and are in more generalist roles than the traditional "policy" roles they were in.

That said, we now have cross streaming and cross grading as a result but the reality will be that relatively few (as in very few) EOs will jump straight to APO which means you are far better off starting as an AO but very few get that chance.

After saying all that, your chance to progress in the Service depends on the luck of the draw in terms of where you might get sent initially ... If it's a very routine processing role in an "outer" office of a Dept as opposed to a Dept's HQ or on a critical or high profile project you will have to work your way through things to build up experiences.

FloatingVoter

^ Take that as bible and something I wasn't too sure about until now myself - I knew I was being very vague in my reply. It does make sense, I came across plenty of EO's in my time who were happily planted in the role. And yes, I used "planted" very deliberately, to conjure up an image of vegetables.

The Veteran

Meant to say (and yes I work in A Dept) that again "traditionall" EOs entering until the early nineties would not have had Degrees but the reality now and to be fair for about 15 years is that most EOs who come in an EOs have Degrees. Their problem remains that until last year and this, you could only progress one grade at a time. That restriction is gone now. Also, PAS and Dept's for specific jobs, are running open recruitments to AP level jobs so we should see EOs jumping from EO to AP.

job124hunt

Hi folks,
Thank you so much for the above. Sure cleared up a few things for sure, reading between the lines go for AO if it comes up as far better promotional opportunities.
Veteran, in reality would you struggle to go from EO to AP if people interviewing you had come through the system and put in the years at each grade?
And what do you mean by planted in their role Floating Voter? In otherwords happy to do their 40 year service at the EO grade?
Speaking to others in the sector, they say make it out of CO to EO is the hardest leap of all as there are so many CO's, would that be right?
Thanks again!

FloatingVoter

job124hunt wrote: »

And what do you mean by planted in their role Floating Voter? In otherwords happy to do their 40 year service at the EO grade?
Speaking to others in the sector, they say make it out of CO to EO is the hardest leap of all as there are so many CO's, would that be right?
Thanks again!

Precisely that, sorry if it came out wrong. Nice people but no intention of applying for something that entails more responsibility. They exist everywhere and are the backbone of society - guards who make sergeant and have no intention of ever going for inspector. Teachers who are happy teaching and do not need the paperwork of a headmaster. We all know them, some of us are them. At 20 it is very easy to dream of running the department (assuming the lotto doesn't work out)....fast forward 10 years and two kids with a partner on a higher income - the picture changes.
And do pay heed to the other posters - my information is hopelessly outdated. The last time I wore a CO's shoes was in 2004.

The Veteran

To go from EO to AP will always be a rarity because any EO will be up against many HEOs and AOs who should have more\better experience than the EO. It's not impossible or I should say won't be but it will be very much the rare case.

As you suggest, at least for another ten years or so the bulk of interviewers may, even subconsciously, favour a HEO over an EO if trying to differentiate between two similar candidates.