Right decision for enrolling in Junior Infants

osarusan

Hi all, hoping the forum will be able to give me some opinions on my issue.

My son is 4 years and 4 months old. He was born in Ireland but lived almost all of his short life so far in Japan - we only moved back to Ireland a month ago. My daughter is 8 and has already started primary school, in 2nd class.

We had planned to enrol him in a pre-school from September 2015 and then into Junior Infants from September 2016. He would be 5 years and 9 months old then.

I went to the primary school today to get the application form and the receptionist got me to talk to the principal about it - his opinion is that, as long as there is no separation anxiety, he should just start this September.

He mentioned the age issue not being such a big deal in primary school, but the fact that he would be older and more mature, reach puberty, etc before his friends might be an issue in secondary school, and his age of 19 years and 9 months would be quite late to start university (not allowing for him skipping transition year, which....is that still possible?). He added that it was, of course, our decision.

I then talked to the woman who runs the pre-school to see what she thought. She disagreed, for the most part. She doesn't think he's too old, or that it will be a problem down the line in secondary school or university.

She also mentioned that with his move from Japan, this might be another big change quite quickly (going straight from being at home to sitting still for a few hours in a class of 30 children) and that pre-school might be an easier transition for him.

There are other factors also - we may return to Japan in the future, where he will be placed in a grade strictly by age, so from that perspective, getting him started in junior infants sooner would mean he'd not be 'behind' if we did move back to Japan and he started school there.

Has anybody any experience of this kind of decision, or any advice or comments? Feel free to ask any questions also if something isn't clear.

LashingLady

So, is his birthday in December - ie. he'll be 5 this December?

I'm on the side that 5 rather than 4 is better for starting school especially for boys, but I think that 4 and 9 months is a good age to start school, unless there are specific learning issues. I think if his birthday was March you might be pondering a decision but the class will be full of kids who turn 5 during the year.

While it is "big school" , junior and senior infants in Ireland are quite gentle and there's plenty of activity for the kids not just sitting still for a number of hours.

Keep in mind that, even though there has been a move in Ireland towards keeping kids til they are closer to 5, the junior infants curriculum is geared towards 4 year olds.

I would send him to school if it were me.

pooch90

You know your child better than any of the people you've spoken to.

How do you think he would manage being in the classroom this September?

From a purely numbers point of view, I would be inclined to start him this Sept, if he is self sufficient enough to put on coats, go to the toilet etc independently.

I teach Senior Infants and a child that would be turning 7 in the December would be a lot more mature (in some cases disruptive to the 'flow' of the class, I know I'm not explaining that very well) than the rest of the class. EG I have one girl who is only turning 6 at the end of this month in Seniors and there would be a huge difference between the two children maturity wise.

evolving_doors

maybe consider summer camps for kids during the summer in the local school area so he might meet kids that would be starting in september.
Some schools allow a transition year skip/some dont.

Ask the school what should a child be able to do before starting. Tie coat, eat lunch independently,ask to go to toilet independently, basic counting .In saying that, every child has their differences.

Is his level of english ok?

chaoskitten_DF

Hi OP,

My sister started school at five and I started at four (I was held back then for one year as my parents and the school felt I was a little young starting).
I finished school four years ago at nineteen and I would say that that is a perfectly normal age, my sister also finished at this age.
Several girls in my year were older (including one girl who was twenty!).

Most of the people who started university with me were eighteen or nineteen, but many were in their early twenties so I really wouldn't worry about the university age thing, whether they are eighteen or nineteen honestly makes little difference.

I would be inclined to follow the advice above regarding the individual child himself.
I hope this helps :-)

osarusan

Thanks for all the replies.

LashingLady wrote: »

So, is his birthday in December - ie. he'll be 5 this December?

Early January.

LashingLady wrote: »

but I think that 4 and 9 months is a good age to start school, unless there are specific learning issues.

No learning issues. He speaks both English and Japanese. His English might be a little behind but it is something that would worry me.

LashingLady wrote: »

While it is "big school" , junior and senior infants in Ireland are quite gentle and there's plenty of activity for the kids not just sitting still for a number of hours.

That is good to know.

pooch90 wrote: »

How do you think he would manage being in the classroom this September?

From a purely numbers point of view, I would be inclined to start him this Sept, if he is self sufficient enough to put on coats, go to the toilet etc independently.

Yeah, the thing is that we are not sure if he can do these things, or more accurately, if he will do these things in such a new environment.

pooch90 wrote: »

I teach Senior Infants and a child that would be turning 7 in the December would be a lot more mature (in some cases disruptive to the 'flow' of the class, I know I'm not explaining that very well) than the rest of the class. EG I have one girl who is only turning 6 at the end of this month in Seniors and there would be a huge difference between the two children maturity wise.

This is something the principal hinted at as well. A big gap in maturity levels - bBeing bigger, maybe understanding stuff faster, being bored.

Gebgbegb wrote: »

maybe consider summer camps for kids during the summer in the local school area so he might meet kids that would be starting in september.

The pre-school teacher actually suggested we send him to her for May and June - that will give him a (brief) transition and we'd know more at the end of those two months.

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Ask the school what should a child be able to do before starting. Tie coat, eat lunch independently,ask to go to toilet independently, basic counting .In saying that, every child has their differences.

Very good idea

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Is his level of english ok?

As above. Maybe not perfect, but not something I'd be really worried about.

It's more that he'd kind of withdraw and not speak, rather than not being able to.

byhookorbycrook

osarusan wrote: »

It's more that he'd kind of withdraw and not speak, rather than not being able to.

I'd be inclined to take this as a reason for pause. Infants who are inclined to be shy can be very overwhelmed in a class with 29 others who can all-and most of them will- make themselves heard and be comfortable interacting with others in the playground.

osarusan

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I'd be inclined to take this as a reason for pause. Infants who are inclined to be shy can be very overwhelmed in a class with 29 others who can all-and most of them will- make themselves heard and be comfortable interacting with others in the playground.

It's not even that he's shy. He's happy around other kids and talkative and sociable.

He's all of those things, when he's comfortable. When he's not, he might get withdrawn. But I'm not even sure he would get withdrawn either.

I'm kind of imagining the worst that could happen, but a big part of me thinks that it will be fine anyway.

Hannibal Smith

Most of the kids in my kids class were 4 starting and most were 5 by the time January came around. If he started school next year he'd be 6 for half of junior infants?

If he's not ready, he's not ready. Youre the best judge of that but age wise, this Sept would be when Id send him.

Is he passed the cut off point for the ecce year?

Moonbeam

I would leave it the year and let him do a year of pre-school.
You never hear of anyone regretting starting their children at at 5 but you often hear of them regretting starting them too early.

Dades

Unless there's some reason you personally believe he needs that extra year, 4 years 9 months is plenty old enough to start school. My son is starting at 5 in September, but he wouldn't have made the cut for getting in anyway (he's still 4). If his birthday was early Jan he'd have made the cut and I'd definitely have sent him.

Big classes can be daunting but most kids settle in quick and get used to them. It's only very shy or introverted kids you'd think twice about. Doing a few camps over the summer is an excellent idea to get him integrated with a crowd of potential classmates. Worst case scenario, you can decide closer to the time to hold him back.

pwurple

Moonbeam wrote: »

You never hear of anyone regretting starting their children at at 5 but you often hear of them regretting starting them too early.

"Never" is a bit strong. I know a couple of people who regretted sending their children to school later. The regrets happened at the far end, when the child was 19 doing the leaving cert, and completely frustrated with 'still being in school' when other people their age were either working or in college. Did a lot of drinking instead with their mates in college and f-ed up the exams.


OP, you are already in Ireland? What's to stop you placing the child in pre-school right now? It's only April. That would be several months of getting used to the environment. You could gauge better then whether he needs another year of it.

draiochtanois

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hoodwinked

for what it's worth in my daughters junior infant classes, the last of the 4 year olds turned 5 in january, since march all birthdays have been 6th birthday's.

blackbird 49

My son started school in the September and then turned 5 the following February, he had no probably, in regards to his english plenty of children from different countries start school with little English as there parents only speak their language to them at home and they seem to get on fine.

skallywag

I would start him immediately in junior infants, considering that otherwise he will be turning 6 just a few months after starting.

osarusan

Thanks all for the comments.

As I mentioned, we're planning to send him to pre-school for a couple of months to see how he settles in and likes it. We are definitely leaning towards starting this September now.

If we need to, we can send him to some summer camp or something for extra experience and...ah... 'conditioning'.

Dades wrote: »

Unless there's some reason you personally believe he needs that extra year, 4 years 9 months is plenty old enough to start school. My son is starting at 5 in September, but he wouldn't have made the cut for getting in anyway (he's still 4). If his birthday was early Jan he'd have made the cut and I'd definitely have sent him.

Big classes can be daunting but most kids settle in quick and get used to them. It's only very shy or introverted kids you'd think twice about. Doing a few camps over the summer is an excellent idea to get him integrated with a crowd of potential classmates. Worst case scenario, you can decide closer to the time to hold him back.

This post pretty much sums up my thoughts.


Seriously, thanks to everybody who replied - good to hear opinions, experiences, and perspectives.

SpaceTime

It very much depends on the person.
Some 4 year olds are well able for school, some aren't. It's hard to generalise.

byhookorbycrook

draiochtanois wrote: »

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I started at 3 years and 9 months, but I was far too young going into secondary, I was way too immature heading to college too.
When I started school , we did not have any children who did not have English as a first language or additional learning needs in the school. Everyone sat down all day long, we all did the same work at the same rate (or else got belted because we couldn't) -in short, we were little drones, no individual differences recognised or catered for.

Schools are now hugely different places thankfully , but the downside is that it's still only one teacher and 30 kids and a child who starts when not ready can fall a little by the wayside, due to sheer demands on a teacher's time.

draiochtanois

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HelgaWard

I think your current plan is a good one, a few months of a pre school like environment and then start JI in September. Another factor that may/may not be relevant is that you only get child benefit now up to age 16. After that they will continue to get it till 18 if in full time education.

mohawk

draiochtanois wrote: »

My brother started junior infants at 3 years and 11 months, he was grand

Very few start before they have turned 4 now. Most kids are going/gone 5.

My son is in Junior infants and the last of the 4 year olds turned 5 in March. The parties are now for 6 year olds.

Is there children in the preschool that will be going to the same school as your son? Once they see a friendly face on the first day it makes it easier for them (and for you).
Also summer camps might have some future class mates.

Arciphel

I'm not surprised the person that runs the pre school thinks you should enroll him in the pre school for a year, may be ulterior motives there. Why not enroll him and see how he gets on, if it's overwhelming for him you can always put him into the pre school instead then and defer till the next year?

byhookorbycrook

You cannot start a child legally now before they are 4. As to boredom, many preschools place too much emphasis on things actually on the infant curriculum and don't do enough Aistear.

lazygal

If a child is bored in preschool or school that's a failure on the part of the school and teacher, not a reason to assume the child is ready for the next stage of education. I was bored in senior infants as I was ready for more reading material and my teacher made sure I had suitable books to read rather than let me be bored, then told other teachers I would need similar reading material so this was provided in subsequent years.

Sleepy

Another thing to remember: for every year a child is in education, it's the last year of their pre-retirement salary that it'll cost them in the long-run so starting a year late "for safety sake" will usually cost that child a year of their highest income level when they're an adult.

lazygal

Sleepy wrote: »

Another thing to remember: for every year a child is in education, it's the last year of their pre-retirement salary that it'll cost them in the long-run so starting a year late "for safety sake" will usually cost that child a year of their highest income level when they're an adult.

I wouldn't base my decision on such a long-term plan tbh. Who knows how the rules will change, and I certainly expect retirement ages to be pushed out significantly in the coming years. The days of retiring in your mid to late 60s will be long gone by the time this generation is working. Plus, who says they'll stay in Ireland forever? I'd deal with the short term, leading up to the age they'd be starting secondary school and college rather than the age of retirement now.

cbyrd

My eldest boy was 5 in January, I'm sending him to primary school in September, he'll be 5 and 7 months. I think boys need a little more time to settle than girls, my eldest girl was 4 and 6 months going, and while she settled fine, if she hadn't done transition year, would only have been
17 finishing school. She only did transition year because she moved school.
I think he would benefit from the year in playschool first, rather than risk a few months of battling to get him to settle, or he might be fine, go with your gut instinct, you know him best

bulmersgal

I was 18 in the November of 6th year. I hated it as all my friends even some younger than me were in college and out having a great time. I was bored most of the time in school and always felt a bit too mature.

I sent my child when she was 4 1/2 she turned 4 in the march. She loves school she's not the youngest in her class but there are done kids older than her. I think it's a great age the amount she has learnt in the last 6 months is amazing. I think a some people will retreat sending kids when they were 5 but prob won't realise it for another 10 + years

DvB

OP, we have 4 yo twins (turned 4 in January) and we looked at them starting school this Autumn, we also looked into holding them back in Montessori for another year in order to get a place in a specific school we had sought placement in, however, upon discussing the possibility of extending their Montessori with their 'teachers' they were of the opinion that they were more than ready as they were already challenging the level of teaching & clearly needed more that pre school could provide. We then met with the school principal (for the school that had offered placement) & the schools after care staff to see what they thought, and after all that it was pretty clear that to hold our two back would be purely for selfish reasons on our part looking to get them into a specific school (which in hindsight wasn't the best option after all)

I appreciate each child is different & any move to school whether from staying at home or preschool is going to be a massive change to any child, but as mentioned by others, you know your child better than anyone else & obviously care about them to the extent that you do worry about worst case scenarios (we did too!) but our fears were soothed by talking to the school staff who showed us a junior infants class in progress & explained what they do on a day to day basis. I think what you're feeling is 100% natural but if he has little trouble communicating I would be of the opinion that he's probably ready for school & holding him back may simply delay the school 'settling in period' that will occur anyway.

Best of luck.