Commercial vehicle without commercial tax

nastros

I am currently in the market for a 4x4 and to be honest a commercial one would suit me down to the ground as I need the space in the back and I dont need the seats. My issue is I don't run my own business so can I tax the vehicle as commercial or just tax it non commercial?

biko

If you don't use it as a business you have to pay regular tax.

Macy0161

I was looking into doing similar (knew about the tax, so wasn't planning on taxing as a commercial), but when I tried to get a few quotes for insurance I couldn't get them (online at least) when I said it wouldn't be used in the course of business. I didn't do any phoning around, as my plans changed, but you should look into insurance and the costs first as well.

alias no.9

Private tax on a commercial vehicle is on the old cc system regardless of age.

nastros

ah ok so I would be better off buying a non commercial jeep then with seats in the back

mossy50

nastros wrote: »

I am currently in the market for a 4x4 and to be honest a commercial one would suit me down to the ground as I need the space in the back and I dont need the seats. My issue is I don't run my own business so can I tax the vehicle as commercial or just tax it non commercial?

Think about it . Who in gods name is going to buy a commercial and then tax it privately youd never be able to sell it afterwards
when you need to tax it just put down on tax form as builder/ G/O

mullingar

mossy50 wrote: »

Think about it . Who in gods name is going to buy a commercial and then tax it privately youd never be able to sell it afterwards
when you need to tax it just put down on tax form as builder/ G/O

Its very simple to convert back to commercial tax once a valid VAT number is provided.

And it is unfortunately the law that if the vehicle is used, even partially, for social or domestic use then it has to be taxed privately. If you were diving a crew-cab/van for domestic/social reasons and were stopped at a check point in your Sunday best, the Garda could take issue with this as you are invalidating the terms of a commercial tax disc. Yes, its silly, but that the law.

Macy0161

mullingar wrote: »

Its very simple to convert back to commercial tax once a valid VAT number is provided.

And it is unfortunately the law that if the vehicle is used, even partially, for social or domestic use then it has to be taxed privately. If you were diving a crew-cab/van for domestic/social reasons and were stopped at a check point in your Sunday best, the Garda could take issue with this as you are invalidating the terms of a commercial tax disc. Yes, its silly, but that the law.

And they do pull you for this - know someone who has a boat which he tows behind a van, and he's regularly pulled.

Dozer Dave

Seemingly there is no law in the Irish Statute Book to state that one cannot use a commercial vehicle for private use.

mossy50

mullingar wrote: »

Its very simple to convert back to commercial tax once a valid VAT number is provided.

And it is unfortunately the law that if the vehicle is used, even partially, for social or domestic use then it has to be taxed privately. If you were diving a crew-cab/van for domestic/social reasons and were stopped at a check point in your Sunday best, the Garda could take issue with this as you are invalidating the terms of a commercial tax disc. Yes, its silly, but that the law.

Your wrong there All my vans have social/domestic on there commercial insurance policys as well as for busiess use
im insured with zurich through insure my van .ie

deckycoop

mossy50 wrote: »

Your wrong there my vans all have social/domestic on there commercial insurance policys as well as for work use
im insured with zurich through insure my van .ie

correct. my van is insured true any van.ie and i have for use for social/domestic use also. its my only form of transport. when i got my quote i put down my full time job but i need the van as i am a farm hand for my uncle who is sick (lies).

also on the issue of commercial tax on a jeep why not take advantage of the law regarding commercial classifications and get a crew cab conversion

https://www.donedeal.ie/commercials-for-sale/toyota-landcruiser-crew-cab/9105685

https://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/toyota-landcruiser-crew-cab/8998472


you get the best of both worlds and when its insured tell the insurance company it is also used as social use.

CiniO

mullingar wrote: »

And it is unfortunately the law that if the vehicle is used, even partially, for social or domestic use then it has to be taxed privately. If you were diving a crew-cab/van for domestic/social reasons and were stopped at a check point in your Sunday best, the Garda could take issue with this as you are invalidating the terms of a commercial tax disc. Yes, its silly, but that the law.

It is not.
There is no law here in Ireland stating what you said (that if the vehicle is used, even partially, for social or domestic use then it has to be taxed privately).

If you believe there is one, please provide a link here.

mullingar

mossy50 wrote: »

Your wrong there All my vans have social/domestic on there commercial insurance policys as well as for busiess use
im insured with zurich through insure my van .ie

We are talking about tax, not insurance.

CiniO wrote: »

It is not.
There is no law here in Ireland stating what you said (that if the vehicle is used, even partially, for social or domestic use then it has to be taxed privately).

If you believe there is one, please provide a link here.

This has been discussed many times.

If you are taxing commercially, you are required to sign a declaration of its tax purpose.

All the law states is that it must be taxed. It's up to the CoCo/revenue to approve the appropriate rate applied for.

Kristopherus

mullingar wrote: »

We are talking about tax, not insurance.



This has been discussed many times.

If you are taxing commercially, you are required to sign a declaration of its tax purpose.

All the law states is that it must be taxed. It's up to the CoCo/revenue to approve the appropriate rate applied for.

Some of the councils make up the rules as they go along.

OP, if you give the tax office your PPS no. it is the same as a vat no., they should accept it. They have no way of checking whether you are registered for vat.

Gumbo

mullingar wrote: »

Its very simple to convert back to commercial tax once a valid VAT number is provided.

And it is unfortunately the law that if the vehicle is used, even partially, for social or domestic use then it has to be taxed privately. If you were diving a crew-cab/van for domestic/social reasons and were stopped at a check point in your Sunday best, the Garda could take issue with this as you are invalidating the terms of a commercial tax disc. Yes, its silly, but that the law.

Sorry, you are incorrect. My crew cab insurance has social and domestic included, so it's safe to carry the children or even the missus to the shops on a Sunday night. All insurance with Aviva.

R.O.R

kceire wrote: »

Sorry, you are incorrect. My crew cab insurance has social and domestic included, so it's safe to carry the children or even the missus to the shops on a Sunday night. All insurance with Aviva.

Mullingar is talking about tax, not insurance.

CiniO wrote: »

It is not.
There is no law here in Ireland stating what you said (that if the vehicle is used, even partially, for social or domestic use then it has to be taxed privately).

If you believe there is one, please provide a link here.

If you believe there is a law in Ireland stating that a commercially taxed vehicle can be used privately, can you provide a link here?

biko

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/benefit-in-kind/private-use-vans.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/9000-cars-re-registered-to-save-on-cheaper-tax-128806.html
Q. If I drive a commercial vehicle, can I not use it outside work hours and at weekend for family and social events?
A. Under the strict letter of the law – no. However, like many pieces of legislation it is more honoured in the breach than in the observance. Ideally, the law should be amended to reflect the fact that many people who genuinely drive commercial vehicles also make use of them in their leisure time for a variety of reasons, financial and otherwise.

Q. Will such motorists face punishment under the new measure by the Department of Environment?
A. In theory – possibly. In reality – unlikely.

Dozer Dave

biko wrote: »

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/benefit-in-kind/private-use-vans.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/9000-cars-re-registered-to-save-on-cheaper-tax-128806.html
Q. If I drive a commercial vehicle, can I not use it outside work hours and at weekend for family and social events?
A. Under the strict letter of the law – no. However, like many pieces of legislation it is more honoured in the breach than in the observance. Ideally, the law should be amended to reflect the fact that many people who genuinely drive commercial vehicles also make use of them in their leisure time for a variety of reasons, financial and otherwise.

Q. Will such motorists face punishment under the new measure by the Department of Environment?
A. In theory – possibly. In reality – unlikely.

In bold above is that legislation in the irish statute book?

biko

I don't know but the fellas in Legal Discussion forum might be able to find it.

Dozer Dave

They wont be able to because its not there, in your revenue link the answer they give to using a commercial vehicle van private is,

Where a company van is available for the private use of an employee, the employee is chargeable to PAYE and PRSI in respect of that private use.

Dozer Dave

Actually all that link is about is benefit in kind for employers/employees for taxation purposes etc. Has no relevance what so ever.

CiniO

R.O.R wrote: »

Mullingar is talking about tax, not insurance.



If you believe there is a law in Ireland stating that a commercially taxed vehicle can be used privately, can you provide a link here?

I don't believe there is such law in Ireland. I actually know there isn't.
But there also isn't a law which would say otherwise - i.e. there isn't a law stating that commercially taxed vehicle can not be used for private purposes from time to time.

Only law which exists in this matter, is the one which states that van taxed commercially must be used for business purposes, but it doesn't stipulate it's as only use.
Hava a look here:

5. Vehicles (including tricycles weighing more than 500 kilograms unladen) constructed or adapted for use and used for the conveyance of goods or burden of any other description in the course of trade or business (including agriculture and the performance by a local or public authority of its functions) and vehicles constructed or adapted for use and used for the conveyance of a machine, workshop, contrivance or implement by or in which goods being conveyed by such vehicles are processed or manufactured while the vehicles are in motion:

This is a bit of legislation, describing vehicles which are to be taxed as commercial. Indeed they must be used for business purposes, but it's never said they can not be used for other (f.e. private) purposes as well.

For comparison, have a look here (from the same act):

6. Vehicles other than those charged with duty under the foregoing provisions of this Part of this Schedule:

(a) any vehicle which is used as a hearse and for no other purpose,

€95

(b) any vehicle (excluding a taxi) which is used as a small public service vehicle within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act 1961 , and for no other purpose,

€88

(c) any vehicle which is fitted with a taximeter and is lawfully used as a street service vehicle within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act 1961 , and for purposes incidental to such use and for no other purpose,

That comes from the same legislation and relates to vehicles listed.
You can see, that here it's clearly stated that those vehicles can not be used for any other purposes than listed if taxed under this category.
Nothing like that above in relation to commercial vehicles.

All this comes from this act:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2012/en/act/pub/0010/print.html

It fairly clear for me, that if law act mentiones that vehicle can be taxed under a category when it's used for specific purpose and it's clearly said it can not be used for any other purpose, then all is clear.
But if in the same act, other category doesn't contain this statement prohibiting usage for any other purpose, then it's fairly clear there's nothing stopping anyone to use it for other purposes from time to time, provided main use of the vehicle is for the purpose listed.

So in example if you want to tax a vehicle as commercial and use it only for private purpose, then you are breaking the law I quoted.
If you tax a van as commercial, and use it for your business 5 days a week, but then over weekend you use it privately, I can't see any law which you are breaking.

mossy50

youre only breaking the law if you get caught and since there isnt any law about it you will be grand
all this comes from that FOOL GORMLESS GORMLEY (the greens ) a shower of IDIOTS

sealgaire

newspaper quotes? seriously? rubbish 2nd hand info....

If you've nothing good to add .......

biko wrote: »

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/benefit-in-kind/private-use-vans.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/9000-cars-re-registered-to-save-on-cheaper-tax-128806.html
Q. If I drive a commercial vehicle, can I not use it outside work hours and at weekend for family and social events?
A. Under the strict letter of the law – no. However, like many pieces of legislation it is more honoured in the breach than in the observance. Ideally, the law should be amended to reflect the fact that many people who genuinely drive commercial vehicles also make use of them in their leisure time for a variety of reasons, financial and otherwise.

Q. Will such motorists face punishment under the new measure by the Department of Environment?
A. In theory – possibly. In reality – unlikely.

Skuxx

I've yet to hear of anybody getting any hassle about driving on commercial tax for private purposes! I've been doing it myself for the last 6 years, been through countless check points and never an issue!!

I agree with what the others have said here, there's no actual law on the issue! Herself is a solicitor, I'll ask her to see can she dig up something to say otherwise!!