Lewis Hamilton accused of "sexism"...

H3llR4iser

This one might take the cake: Lewis Hamilton was accused of "sexism" and "discrimination" for...spraying one of the podium girls with champagne in Shangai. Apparently, the accusations come from some Roz Hardie from a group called "Object".

I can't even begin to explain how much of an idiotic stance that one is; Way to shoot yourself in the foot for any supporter of the feminist cause.

Essentially anybody who gets on or nearby the podium after a motor race, be it F1, GP2, MotoGP, Nascar or whatever, knows he/she is fair game when the champagne comes out. There were quite a few dignitaries, leaders of governments, ministries and presidents drenched over the years. At least once, Prince Ranieri of Monaco himself was sprayed...by none other than Ayrton Senna.
If they all had the mindset of the accusing lady, they should have all declared war to whatever country the culprit driver came from!

Anyway, we're past the ridiculous marker here. It seems that we came to a point that any action, no matter what its meaning or intent, directed towards a woman is an act of sexism and discrimination, regardless of it being an actual offence or something like a compliment.

I seriously wonder if there will ever be a line drawn, maybe even at a legal level. Some of these "association" don't look like they're pursuing equality (towards which there still is some way to go, even 'though it's not in the traditional sense), rather seem hell bent into stigmatizing and condemning men as a whole.

speedboatchase

It is what it is. Her job - such as it is - involves standing there and looking pretty, for some reason. And as you say, it's customary for a driver to spray the girls with champagne, again, for some reason.

But I think the criticism can be allayed to the fact that 1. Hamilton isn't very likable, and thus is a target in the media, and 2. the specific angle of the shots show the girl in obvious discomfort. There's no way you can look at those photos and not conclude that Hamilton looks like a d**k.

I think the controversy, if it doesn't blow over, could lead to people questioning why podium girls exist at all. To be honest, I find them to be a rather quaint aspect of the sport.

Dog of Tears

speedboatchase wrote: »

it's customary for a driver to spray the girls with champagne, again, for some reason.

It's the F1 equivalent of the 'cum-shot'.

Penny Tration

He deliberately sprayed it in her face.

I wouldn't call it sexist, but it's certainly a dickhead move.

afatbollix

Lets make sure they don't watch the British bikes where its up the skirt with the spray.

Look its all about getting your promo girl in front of the camera and if they are told to stand by when the winner is spraying champagne that's her job to get in the shot!

look at how much press this girl has got I'm sure she will get a good bonus!

JPF82

This is typical of the reaction when Lewis Hamilton does anything!

There are loads of examples of other drivers spraying the podium girls with champagne, Webber, Vettel, Button et al have done this before.

One picture of Hamilton doing it and the white knights of the internet get into a tizzy and want to criticise him to protect the honour of the grid girl.

Myself, I think grid girls are becomming antiquated and F1 May follow the route of the WEC. However, this woman was on the podium after the race as part of her job. The champagne is always sprayed around them and plenty of people have been sprayed with it in the past. It can not have been a total surprise to her. It seems just newsworthy now to have a did at Lewis.

What else can people blame him for I wonder.

OmegaRed

Chatting to a friend last night... Madonna pretty much sexually assaulted a man on stage the other night, not a fcuk was given..... (Could have been staged, maybe...).

Hamilton situation is getting blown out of proportion all together.....

H3llR4iser

OmegaRed wrote: »

Chatting to a friend last night... Madonna pretty much sexually assaulted a man on stage the other night, not a fcuk was given..... (Could have been staged, maybe...).

Hamilton situation is getting blown out of proportion all together.....

That it is. I didn't post this to discuss Lewis Hamilton - there's the F1 thread in Motorsport for that.

The point of discussion I wished to propose was the fact that there are people doing nothing else than scout the Internet daily, looking for poor excuses to scream "sexism!", and actually manage to get a lot of resonance. This specific episode, in my view, goes side by side with the infamous ESA Scientist's shirt controversy.

They way I see it, these episodes contribute nothing to the feminists' cause; Quite the contrary, they might do some damage to it by making their proponents, women or men alike, look like ignorant, misinformed misandristic idiots, ready to clutch at any straw in order to get headlines. They spit venom about something that, albeit having a lot of visibility, is essentially harmless and meaningless while more important episodes of real discrimination go by completely undetected - How often do we have headlines about the third-rate citizen's treatment women get in certain cultures? And what about the indoctrination that starts as children (I recently have seen toy hoovers...essentially training in the form of play)?

That model was on the podium for one reason and one reason only: she is pretty. It's an international sporting event, managed by what is essentially a British company. She isn't a "trafficked woman"; Nobody put a gun to her head or stole her passport to make her do it (not even in China, believe me!), she submitted her profile to a model agency and was picked up for the job, completely voluntarily - if she had any reservations about being in a potential "champagne spray area", she would have said "no".

Thinking otherwise, is actually offending her intelligence and independence as a person. Going atomic on the media about it is essentially shouting "that poor, brainless, no-willpower girl was exploited and put there by some evil men, mistreated by another one, and she could do nothing about it, someone has to intervene!". The fact is, as far as we know, she might very well be studying for a PhD in Theoretical Physics and modeling just to get a bit of coin on the side.

Finally, if we want to make a consideration about motorsports, there is a big push to have women drivers. There is no reason for them not to succeed - the physical requirements are such that there would be no discernible difference where biology is involved, and the required brainpower comes in equal supply to both genders. Currently there are discrimiation issues, where sponsors don't fancy backing up a girl who wants to "be in F1", whereas a boy of the same age and skill will be taken more seriously. Yet nobody mentions it.

But I wonder if we'll get to a point where, if and when one will be up on the podium, others have to stay outside a 2 meters radius of her or be accused of sexism.

skallywag

Blown out of proportion, being sprayed with Champagne is part of the Job Description for a podium girl, it's not like he singled out some randomer in the crowd. Mind you I'm not sure if being grabbed by the behind is part of the same Job Description as was the case with Peter Sagan a while back!

Sleepy

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Finally, if we want to make a consideration about motorsports, there is a big push to have women drivers. There is no reason for them not to succeed - the physical requirements are such that there would be no discernible difference where biology is involved, and the required brainpower comes in equal supply to both genders. Currently there are discrimiation issues, where sponsors don't fancy backing up a girl who wants to "be in F1", whereas a boy of the same age and skill will be taken more seriously. Yet nobody mentions it.

Is this really the case though? I'd have thought a decent female F1 driver would be a marketer's wet dream tbh. I'm no expert on motorsport but how many women are actually involved in it? I'm guessing the gender split of competitors in motorsports in general is such that statistically, it would be unlikely for one of the 20 most elite of the sport to be female?

Look at the profile Katie Taylor gets out of her success in boxing, a sport that would be considered by many as even "less feminine" than F1. She has no problems getting sponsors or doing advertising work. Why would that be any different for a similarly talented driver?

H3llR4iser

Sleepy wrote: »

Is this really the case though? I'd have thought a decent female F1 driver would be a marketer's wet dream tbh.

Look at the profile Katie Taylor gets out of her success in boxing, a sport that would be considered by many as even "less feminine" than F1.

And you are right, but the problem is that a good F1 woman driver would indeed be a marketing dream, once she is already there.

The whole "road to success" is paved with risks. Sponsors try to make an investment - there's a promising 14 years old competing in Karting, let's back him up, once he'll make it at the top we'll start cashing in the dividends. They always incur in the risk of their driver "fizzing out" and not making it to the international stage.

This is what cripples many careers - for example, there haven't been Italian F1 drivers for a while now. The reason is that no sponsor will back them up, knowing that all of Italy's attention is dedicated to Ferrari. There would be no return.

Backing up a female driver carries double the risk: regardless of how good she is, a lot of people will say she only got the job because she is a woman, or has ties here and there.

If she succeeds, there will be excuses made - she is enjoying favoritism, claim of advantages due to lower weight and other silly things (it was leveled at Danica Patrick when she was racing at the front in Indycar).

If she is good but ends up in a bad team, she'll be considered cr@p and a "media phenomenon".

Essentially, a change of mentality in the environment and, more importantly, in the public needs to take place before this could happen. I mean, you still hear silly stuff as "a woman wouldn't stand the psychological pressure" sprouted around in dedicated motorsport forums, go figure...

As for Katie Taylor, it's a different kettle of fish. Although boxing has historically been a male sport, up to the point that there was no officially sanctioned female version of it until relatively recently, she doesn't compete and share the same spotlight as the guys. There is no direct comparison, and she can't be considered "cr@p" or "good" just because she is a woman.

skallywag

H3llR4iser wrote: »

And you are right, but the problem is that a good F1 woman driver would indeed be a marketing dream, once she is already there.

Danica Patrick is massively successful in the US from a marketing perspective, she competes in NASCAR & Indycar.

Edit - Just see you mention her later in your post !

DavidRamsay99

"Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.” ― H.L. Mencken

Fanatics of every lunatic ideology or religion are at war with fun. You have to adhere pedantically to their limits or else.

Lemming

Sleepy wrote: »

Is this really the case though? I'd have thought a decent female F1 driver would be a marketer's wet dream tbh. I'm no expert on motorsport but how many women are actually involved in it? I'm guessing the gender split of competitors in motorsports in general is such that statistically, it would be unlikely for one of the 20 most elite of the sport to be female?

Look at the profile Katie Taylor gets out of her success in boxing, a sport that would be considered by many as even "less feminine" than F1. She has no problems getting sponsors or doing advertising work. Why would that be any different for a similarly talented driver?

Suzi De Wolff (current Williams F1 test driver), first woman in 30 years to test during free-race practice at a race weekend.

Maria De Vilota, test driver for Marussia F1, killed in recent years (2013 iirc).

They are getting there, it's just a case of time; much like any other sport, the girls need to be interested from a very young age much like the boys do. You can't just transplant a racing driver who happens to have bewbies to tick a few "societal progression check-boxes" for gender-war approval, and expect them to do well if qualify at all.

DavidRamsay99

Lemming wrote: »

Suzi De Wolff (current Williams F1 test driver), first woman in 30 years to test during free-race practice at a race weekend.

Maria De Vilota, test driver for Marussia F1, killed in recent years (2013 iirc).

They are getting there, it's just a case of time; much like any other sport, the girls need to be interested from a very young age much like the boys do. You can't just transplant a racing driver who happens to have bewbies to tick a few "societal progression check-boxes" for gender-war approval, and expect them to do well if qualify at all.

It would be great if more women were in formula 1.
Why not?
I would imagine if a woman wins a Grand Prix and she opens a magnum of champagne and wants to spray bare chested men on the platform why the hell not?

Lemming

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

It would be great if more women were in formula 1.
Why not?

Did you bother to read what I wrote?

Dog of Tears

H3llR4iser wrote: »

That model was on the podium for one reason and one reason only: she is pretty. It's an international sporting event, managed by what is essentially a British company. She isn't a "trafficked woman"; Nobody put a gun to her head or stole her passport to make her do it (not even in China, believe me!), she submitted her profile to a model agency and was picked up for the job, completely voluntarily - if she had any reservations about being in a potential "champagne spray area", she would have said "no".

I'm not sure one's opportunities as a model in China allow one to quite as choosy when it comes to paying work.

While she may have been aware she was in a "champagne spray area", it looks to me like she was sprayed from close range directly in the face by Hamilton.

Does that make him sexist? Probably not.

It does make him somewhat of a dickhead IMO though.

H3llR4iser

Dog of Tears wrote: »

I'm not sure one's opportunities as a model in China allow one to quite as choosy when it comes to paying work.

While she may have been aware she was in a "champagne spray area", it looks to me like she was sprayed from close range directly in the face by Hamilton.

Does that make him sexist? Probably not.

It does make him somewhat of a dickhead IMO though.

But nobody forces her to be a model. If she doesn't want to be, she doesn't do it - even in China.

She could have been everything really - a leader of government, say, and gotten the very same treatment. As I said already, Prince Ranieri was once profusely sprayed by Senna and, if memory serves me well, Albert was by Mark Webber a few years ago. Nobody batted an eyelid, as it should be!

And goes indeed both ways - these models also act as the "grid girls" before the race, holding a sign with the drivers name. In other formulae, where lady drivers were involved, often there was a "grid guy" for them. Makes perfect sense

Back on the "over the top, sexism everywhere" topic I would say, before the mods close/move this thread. It's not supposed to be about Lewis Hamilton, nor women F1 drivers - but the absurd overreaction of some "feminist" characters

Lemming

As my OH has pointed out; the spraying of the grid-girls started several years ago with Vettel. It's been done every year, including by Hamilton before and nobody has batted an eyelid. The only difference here now is that some SJW has spotted the photos and taken deliberate umbrage.

skallywag

Lemming wrote: »

...It's been done every year, including by Hamilton before and nobody has batted an eyelid....

+1

Hamilton in particular has form for this, I can think of at least two other recent incidents. It is certainly fair to say that the girl in question would have been expecting it. What's different this time is that the stills that we are seeing are making it much more dramatic than it actually appears when you see it in real time.

forzacalcio

Over reaction again by the media with certain people looking for attention. Best Ignored OP.

Lemming

Just reading back what I last wrote; there's an argument to be had as to whether or not grid-girls are really necessary and their presence in itself may be a throw back to an older age that indulged in sexism, but I believe that what Hamilton has done (in this case, and before) was not an intentionally sexist act.

Just Be Yourself

Disgusting sexism from Hamilton. Spraying foam from a phallic shaped object at a woman? Come on, that's rape. He should be banned from F1 for life and maybe should go to prison.

Seriously though, anyone else getting sick and tired of being lectured by feminists? Seems they want to suck the fun out of everything. How long before the F1 girls are banned because some feminist objects? (and no doubt because she's overweight and insecure about her looks).

Sleepy

To be fair, the grid girls (or "Screwdrivers" as I've commonly heard them called) *are* a throwback to a more sexist era of Page 3 models etc.

The question is, whether there's anything to be gained by banning their existence beyond putting a few low-level models out of (what I presume is quite decently paid) work?

Just Be Yourself

Sleepy wrote: »

To be fair, the grid girls (or "Screwdrivers" as I've commonly heard them called) *are* a throwback to a more sexist era of Page 3 models etc.

The question is, whether there's anything to be gained by banning their existence beyond putting a few low-level models out of (what I presume is quite decently paid) work?

There is nothing be gained except denying good money and a cool lifestyle to good looking girls.

Dog of Tears

Sleepy wrote: »

The question is, whether there's anything to be gained by banning their existence beyond putting a few low-level models out of (what I presume is quite decently paid) work?

I doubt it's that well-paid tbh.

In fact, if anything, I'd class his actions more as a quasi workplace bullying/harassment issue than sexism.

Multi-millionaire sprays champagne at close-range directly into face of low-level, poorly paid work colleague.

A bit like something from Wolf of Wall Street.

Just Be Yourself

Dog of Tears wrote: »

I doubt it's that well-paid tbh.

In fact, if anything, I'd class his actions more as a quasi workplace bullying/harassment issue than sexism.

Multi-millionaire sprays champagne at close-range directly into face of low-level, poorly paid work colleague.

A bit like something from Wolf of Wall Street.

Being paid to hang out with F1 drivers and travel to places like Monaco? What a terrible lifestyle. Those poor girls!

Dog of Tears

Just Be Yourself wrote: »

Being paid to hang out with F1 drivers and travel to places like Monaco? What a terrible lifestyle. Those poor girls!

Have you ever been to Monaco?

It's a hole.

I'll bring you there for a weekend if you let me humiliate you in front of million of people though.

Good deal isn't it?

skallywag

Just Be Yourself wrote: »

Being paid to hang out with F1 drivers and travel to places like Monaco? What a terrible lifestyle. Those poor girls!

The girls are local to the geo where the GP is on, they don't travel en masse around the world to every F1 race on the circuit

Sleepy

Dog of Tears wrote: »

I doubt it's that well-paid tbh.

I'm guessing it's better paid than the typical "bikini on Grafton Street" type gig gets them.

BTW, since Just Be Yourself doesn't seem interested. I'll happily stand on a street in Monnaco in a pair of board-shorts and let you spray me with champagne if you're covering the flight and hotel bill for the weekend?

smash

Just Be Yourself wrote: »

Seriously though, anyone else getting sick and tired of being lectured by feminists?

The hardcore feminists really do no good for anyone, let alone their own cause. But you know how it goes, (s)he who shouts loudest gets heard the most.

In one breath "All men are pigs" and in the next "women are equal to me"... right so.

Wibbs

Just Be Yourself, don't post in this thread again or you'll be banned from this forum. Only warning. Last few nonsense posts of yours deleted(and replies to them).

Lemming

Sleepy wrote: »

I'm guessing it's better paid than the typical "bikini on Grafton Street" type gig gets them.

BTW, since Just Be Yourself doesn't seem interested. I'll happily stand on a street in Monnaco in a pair of board-shorts and let you spray me with champagne if you're covering the flight and hotel bill for the weekend?

MY EYESSSSS!!! OH GOD IT* BURNNSSSSS


*the image, not the champagne

jackofalltrades

H3llR4iser wrote: »

The point of discussion I wished to propose was the fact that there are people doing nothing else than scout the Internet daily, looking for poor excuses to scream "sexism!", and actually manage to get a lot of resonance. This specific episode, in my view, goes side by side with the infamous ESA Scientist's shirt controversy.

Don't see what's sexist about this.
It seems common practice to soak anyone in a 10ft radius.
And it's hard to tell from a picture if he crossed the line and was being a dick about it.

This reminds me of the time Joan Burton got hassle from an Animal Rights group for using the phrase "there's more than one way to skin a cat".

I think organisations are more focused on the short game.
Find a perceived transgression and then shame the person/company into a grovelling apology, after a short social media fuelled witch hunt.
The organisation gets a win and the public gets justice.
Everyone then gets back to their life with a sense of achievement without having to take on difficult, unrewarding and time-consuming campaigns.

DavidRamsay99

All this is about is a sick individual who is jealous of a handsome fearless sportsman who playfully sprayed a beautiful young woman with champagne.

Racing drivers risk their lives in race after race, are extremely wealthy, are usually very good looking, men want to be like them and women throw themselves at them.

The twisted spiteful hate filled deranged psychotic witches that make up the evil cult called third wave "feminism" are obviously going to make a guy like Hamilton, an successful confident alpha male, their target.

Will Hamilton care? Will he f*ck?

When Sean Penn, movie legend and macho man, made his tongue in cheek remark about Alejandro González Iñárritu immigrant status social media went bananas.

Penn replied to criticism with "f*ck you" to anybody stupid enough to not get the joke.

JPF82

A photo a few seconds later shows the woman being sprayed smiling. I dunno. Such a storm I'm a teacup. People seem so keen to be offended these days. They won't be happy until life is totally boring and sterile and no one can be offended.

Mr.H

Dog of Tears wrote: »

Have you ever been to Monaco?

It's a hole.

I'll bring you there for a weekend if you let me humiliate you in front of million of people though.

Good deal isn't it?

wow

Yea thats exactly what happened

Sure its bullying that he sprayed his fellow drivers aswell or if some spray got on the production crew

These "groups" need to be ignored big time

Dog of Tears

JPF82 wrote: »

A photo a few seconds later shows the woman being sprayed smiling. I dunno.

Because she was really happy about it, or because she was being paid to smile?