Trying to keep under 40sqm - advice please..

SlinkyL

Looking for some tips/advice please!!
We need an extra bedroom in our 2 bed, end of terrace, former corporation house, dublin 9. Family of 5. Having looked at the option of taking out entire side of house and extending into our narrow side passageway (1.85m x10m) and getting quotes in region of 60-100!!k for this, we have decided it is just too much money to spend to get an extra bedroom, especially when one considers that we would have to refurbish all existing rooms as a result of this work and get planning permission & associated costs - there is just no way we can afford all of this - our budget is about 40k.
We have decided an alternative might be to extend along side of house and into back garden. This would give us ample hallway space & storage (a big bonus in a small house with no hallway currently - just straight into living room) a utility space off the kitchen, which would lead into a downstairs shower room which then would lead into the required 3rd bedroom that would essentially be built into the top right hand corner of our large back garden.

Issue is that to try and get it in under the 40m2. There is an existing kitchen extension built some time in the 80s of 13m2. The side passageway is 10x1.85 18.5m2. This only leaves 8.5m2 for the bedroom which is tiny. However, half of the side passage has been a shed for umpteen years - not sure how long, this would be about 9m2. As this has been a shed, I'm hoping that maybe this 9m2 is exempt from the 40m2? Does anyone know if this is the case? Otherwise we would have to get very creative with the side passage development and somehow find about 4m2 to give to the bedroom. the side passage is next to a laneway that residents only use (not a throughway) so we are not on anyones parity wall/blocking light, overlooking anyone etc etc...

Any advice or tips very welcome :-)

Gumbo

SlinkyL wrote: »

Any advice or tips very welcome :-)

Have you spoke to a local Architect or Technician about it?
I suspect they would have to see the site.

Oral Surgeon

SlinkyL wrote: »

Looking for some tips/advice please!!
We need an extra bedroom in our 2 bed, end of terrace, former corporation house, dublin 9. Family of 5. Having looked at the option of taking out entire side of house and extending into our narrow side passageway (1.85m x10m) and getting quotes in region of 60-100!!k for this, we have decided it is just too much money to spend to get an extra bedroom, especially when one considers that we would have to refurbish all existing rooms as a result of this work and get planning permission & associated costs - there is just no way we can afford all of this - our budget is about 40k.
We have decided an alternative might be to extend along side of house and into back garden. This would give us ample hallway space & storage (a big bonus in a small house with no hallway currently - just straight into living room) a utility space off the kitchen, which would lead into a downstairs shower room which then would lead into the required 3rd bedroom that would essentially be built into the top right hand corner of our large back garden.

Issue is that to try and get it in under the 40m2. There is an existing kitchen extension built some time in the 80s of 13m2. The side passageway is 10x1.85 18.5m2. This only leaves 8.5m2 for the bedroom which is tiny. However, half of the side passage has been a shed for umpteen years - not sure how long, this would be about 9m2. As this has been a shed, I'm hoping that maybe this 9m2 is exempt from the 40m2? Does anyone know if this is the case? Otherwise we would have to get very creative with the side passage development and somehow find about 4m2 to give to the bedroom. the side passage is next to a laneway that residents only use (not a throughway) so we are not on anyones parity wall/blocking light, overlooking anyone etc etc...

Any advice or tips very welcome :-)

Are you trying to keep it under 40sqm to avoid a planning application?? If so, you can only build onto the back of the house, not the side passage…..

Supertech

The exempted development floor area limits for Planning for a terreced house are lower than for Building Regulations. I suspect it's the latter the OP is querying.

Oral Surgeon

Supertech wrote: »

The exempted development floor area limits for Planning for a terreced house are lower than for Building Regulations. I suspect it's the latter the OP is querying.

Is it a "terraced" house if it is end of terrace though?? My understanding is that exempted development applies to the rear of the house only, not to the side...

Calahonda52

Hard to follow whats what here but 40k won't get u a lot in terms of restructuring/new build.

There may be a planning issue with closing off the side passage, it was raised a week or so ago here.

If all u need is a bedroom and a bit of storage, would a stand alone Garden room type idea work

Supertech

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

Is it a "terraced" house if it is end of terrace though?? My understanding is that exempted development applies to the rear of the house only, not to the side...

It doesn't matter that its 'end of terrace' as the same rules apply for semi detached houses.

Strolling Bones

SlinkyL wrote: »

we have decided it is just too much money to spend to get an extra bedroom, ..... get planning permission & associated costs - there is just no way we can afford all of this - our budget is about 40k.

SlinkyL wrote: »

We have decided an alternative might be to extend along side of house and into back garden.

If you extend to the side you need planning.

berrecka

For exempted development;

- The previous kitchen extension would have to be taken off the permitted floor area - so you are looking at 40sqm-13sqm, ie. 27sqm.

- You have to retain 25sqm rear outside space.

- You can only build to the rear - not the side/front.

End of terrace is treated the same as semi-D.

SlinkyL

Thanks for all the replies, the reason I thought that the side would be exempt was because there is an existing structure there - i.e., the shed. My parents recently added a side extension to their house where there had been a workshop for many years and this was exempt for this reason. I have contacted Dublin Corporation planning dept so will update when I get some info back from them.
We did speak to an architect this time last year and we got drawings etc done but this involved taking the whole side of the house out and would require complete refurb of existing house which is beyond our budget.
Thanks again for replies, advice and opinions appreciated

bryaj

Could an extension to the side accommodate the existing stairs and hall and break through existing gable wall with doors to access rooms. The space where the stairs and hall were could be used to provide additional accommodation, you might consider moving bathroom also? You would limit demolition to breaking openings for doors.

antiskeptic

SlinkyL wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies, the reason I thought that the side would be exempt was because there is an existing structure there - i.e., the shed. My parents recently added a side extension to their house where there had been a workshop for many years and this was exempt for this reason. I have contacted Dublin Corporation planning dept so will update when I get some info back from them.
We did speak to an architect this time last year and we got drawings etc done but this involved taking the whole side of the house out and would require complete refurb of existing house which is beyond our budget.
Thanks again for replies, advice and opinions appreciated

Why are you so adverse to applying for permission. It's not that onerous a process.

If tight on budget what about

- a lean-to style extension the length of the side passage (single storey, roof slopes from sidewall of house downwards to lane wall). The lane/party wall would be demolished and a new built to form the external wall of the extension - with you likely having to design things so as to retain the gutter within your boundary (rather than letting it overhang the lane).

- go higher than standard to gain some volumetric space. It's cheaper to simply follow the slope of the ceiling internally than built a flat ceiling.

- the room would be narrow but could be as long as you like to compensate. If you desire width for it, you could demolish a portion of your existing house side wall (say 2m long) to create and 'alcove' to be given to the extension room. Erect a stud wall to seal off the alcove from the house proper using thinnest/soundproofest materials. Not that complex to execute - far less than demolishing the side wall of your house.

SlinkyL

Thanks for suggestion & replies. Dublin City planning dept were very helpful and advised that we could build on side without planning as there was an existing shed in situ so we are optimistic that we would have enough space to create the extra storage and bedroom that we need and keep under 40sqm. Thanks again for taking time to make suggestions and replies.

BryanF

SlinkyL wrote: »

Thanks for suggestion & replies. Dublin City planning dept were very helpful and advised that we could build on side without planning as there was an existing shed in situ so we are optimistic that we would have enough space to create the extra storage and bedroom that we need and keep under 40sqm. Thanks again for taking time to make suggestions and replies.

Good for you
Did Coucnil provide this in writing?

SlinkyL

I sent in some pics of the house via e-mail showing shed and they checked it out with planners and said in an e-mail response that the side would be exempt as there was an existing garage, shed or store. They said I could submit section 5 application for exemption to get exemption in writing. The space created by converting shed would be included in the 40sqm so we still need to work on a creative design to make best use of space so will need to get an architect or technician to assist with this but I am confident that we will be able to get what we need without taking out the whole side of the house. They really couldn't have been more helpful.