Current State of this Forum

sleepyheadh

Hi guys,

Just thought I'd spark up a little conversation with this little tidbit.

Currently, on the front page of this forum, there are 6 out of 20 threads closed. Thats nearly a 33% of threads closed.

Is it time for this forum to simply roll over and die? What purpose is it here to fulfil?

Would love to hear what you guys think.

January

Stems from the fact that you cannot ask for medical advice here and some people don't seem to get that.

Kurtosis

As January says, the reason for so many locked threads is there are so many posters seeking medical advice. This doesn't seem to be due to ignorance of the rules, in many cases a poster pre-emptively states they are not seeking medical advice, and then proceed to do just that. I'm not sure is there anything more that could be done to dissuade such threads. Harsher penalties for asking for medical advice? A clearer set of stickies to get the message across? Maybe with more examples of what constitutes seeking medical advice?

As for what the forum's purpose, according to the charter:

This Forum is for all who enjoy and/or are interested in Health Sciences. This title includes all aspects of scientific and associated social aspects to working within the Health Sciences field. This includes disciplines such as medicine, nursing, allied health therapy, dietetics, optometry as well as all other paramedical disciplines.

We are primarily a scientific forum but we also discuss associated issues which affect our professions such as medical and paramedical politics, sociology and employment.

We have a subforum here which is specifically tailored to health sciences education to discuss entry into health sciences courses as well as undergraduate and postgraduate studies for all our disciplines.

___

Finally - it is good to have a scientific discussion on new research and clinical trials papers in ALL fields of Health Sciences and I encourage people from all those backgrounds to get involved in this forum.

That seems to me a fair and clear statement of the forum's purpose, that is rooted in science and not just medicine but the broader health sciences field.

You haven't really given much of an opinion yourself to kick off the conversation, what do you think?

sleepyheadh

penguin88 wrote:

As January says, the reason for so many locked threads is there are so many posters seeking medical advice. This doesn't seem to be due to ignorance of the rules, in many cases a poster pre-emptively states they are not seeking medical advice, and then proceed to do just that. I'm not sure is there anything more that could be done to dissuade such threads. Harsher penalties for asking for medical advice? A clearer set of stickies to get the message across? Maybe with more examples of what constitutes seeking medical advice?

Do you think harsher punishments are required? From my experiance nothing seems to kill a thread like over zealous mods. Obviously for threads that are overtly - what drug should i take, what's wrong with my left foot - this doesn't apply but for more grey cases, which i have seen closed, the argument could be made that a more stand off approach could be beneficial. Poster asks a question, replies from people on both sides, each sides lays out there evidence, everyone is winner.

penguin88 wrote:

You haven't really given much of an opinion yourself to kick off the conversation, what do you think?

I don't want to have all the fun penguin88..you know i love hearing your opinions!

sleepyheadh

January wrote:

Stems from the fact that you cannot ask for medical advice here and some people don't seem to get that.

A very monochromatic approach January. Why do you think people ask medical advice here? Why not just set up a medical advice forum, like the legal advice forum, and simply close every thread that's started? It's clearly people who aren't ready the charter that post on health sciences, they are window shopping on the thread. However, the result of this is that 33% of the threads are closed. That leads to a lack of discussion on the rest on forum. What other forum can you think of were that high a level of threads are closed.

Maybe you have a salient point to make on a thread. .nope is been closed. On health sciences theres a 1 in 3 chance of that happening every time.

sam34

OP, you have started threads here previously about the 'no medical advice' rule and how you disagree with it. It is site-wide policy for very good reasons. It is not up for discussion. End of. Do not use this thread to start that discussion again. If you have other suggestions for the forum, in line with the charter, then feel free to post those.

(I have no doubt you will cite this post as an example of mods being 'overzealous' etc etc, but I'm making it very clear what will be, and will not be, tolerated on this thread. Your one-man crusade that we have seen before will not be tolerated. )

sleepyheadh

sam34 wrote:

OP, you have started threads here previously about the 'no medical advice' rule and how you disagree with it. It is site-wide policy for very good reasons. It is not up for discussion. End of. Do not use this thread to start that discussion again. If you have other suggestions for the forum, in line with the charter, then feel free to post those.

Holy moly. Would you ever just leave it? The thread was about the current state of this thread. Others brought up the medical advice. God forbid someone on this forum would spark a bit of conversation.

January

sleepyheadh wrote: »

A very monochromatic approach January. Why do you think people ask medical advice here? Why not just set up a medical advice forum, like the legal advice forum, and simply close every thread that's started? It's clearly people who aren't ready the charter that post on health sciences, they are window shopping on the thread. However, the result of this is that 33% of the threads are closed. That leads to a lack of discussion on the rest on forum. What other forum can you think of were that high a level of threads are closed.

Maybe you have a salient point to make on a thread. .nope is been closed. On health sciences theres a 1 in 3 chance of that happening every time.

Therein lies your problem. There is no 'legal advice' forum, there is a legal discussion forum though. You'll see for yourself if you visit it that the mods are quite good at catching when legal advice is being asked for and telling thread starters and posters that legal advice cannot be given and to seek it elsewhere. Same happens in Accommodation & Property quite regularly and the same happens in Parenting in relation to medical advice and legal advice.

It's simply a site wide rule that is one of the most important to be adhered to . Anyway, why would you want legal or medical advice from some loons on the internet? Could you imagine going into court and if you lost saying 'well someone on boards told me this is what I had to do so how come it didn't work?'

sleepyheadh

January wrote:

Therein lies your problem. There is no 'legal advice' forum, there is a legal discussion forum though. You'll see for yourself if you visit it that the mods are quite good at catching when legal advice is being asked for and telling thread starters and posters that legal advice cannot be given and to seek it elsewhere. Same happens in Accommodation & Property quite regularly and the same happens in Parenting in relation to medical advice and legal advice.

I've been over to legal discussion, there are far fewer closed threads there. I can work out the exact number of you like.

Why not create a medical discussion forum and a medical advice forum in which all threads are immediately closed?

January wrote:

It's simply a site wide rule that is one of the most important to be adhered to . Anyway, why would you want legal or medical advice from some loons on the internet? Could you imagine going into court and if you lost saying 'well someone on boards told me this is what I had to do so how come it didn't work?'

Great example haha. So when you go to court do you often represent yourself? Most normal people have a legal team, with which discussing ideas which you have gathered from any source is perfectly reasonable.

I no the rule regarding medical advice is important. I wouldn't post a question asking for medical advice. It's people who are new to the forum that dont read other posts, and dont read the charter. Therfore, make a new medical advice forum to catch these people without ruining this forum.

Kurtosis

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Do you think harsher punishments are required? From my experiance nothing seems to kill a thread like over zealous mods. Obviously for threads that are overtly - what drug should i take, what's wrong with my left foot - this doesn't apply but for more grey cases, which i have seen closed, the argument could be made that a more stand off approach could be beneficial. Poster asks a question, replies from people on both sides, each sides lays out there evidence, everyone is winner.

I'm not sure if harsher penalties would have any effect, or even if they're needed - you suggested there was a problem with the volume of medical advice threads so I put it out there as one option to address this.

It sounds like you would like to see more debating and discussion of evidence relating to clinical scenarios on the forum, which I agree would be great. Since medical advice seeking is banned and this isn't going to happen on the back of such queries, maybe posters could create threads on a regular basis with a journal article, new treatment guidelines or published case study/case series to discuss.

I don't want to have all the fun penguin88..you know i love hearing your opinions!

Well it might help the conversation if you contribute some of your own suggestions/thoughts too.

sleepyheadh

penguin88 wrote:

It sounds like you would like to see more debating and discussion of evidence relating to clinical scenarios on the forum, which I agree would be great. Since medical advice seeking is banned and this isn't going to happen on the back of such queries, maybe posters could create threads on a regular basis with a journal article, new treatment guidelines or published case study/case series to discuss.

Are you saying this would be a good or a bad thing?

penguin88 wrote:

Well it might help the conversation if you contribute some of your own suggestions/thoughts too.

I've offered a few opinions if you care to read them.

My main one at the moment would be to set up a medical advice forum, were every thread is immediately closed. What do you think penguin 88?

Kurtosis

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Are you saying this would be a good or a bad thing?

I think it would be a good idea.

penguin88 wrote: »

It sounds like you would like to see more debating and discussion of evidence relating to clinical scenarios on the forum, which I agree would be great. Since medical advice seeking is banned and this isn't going to happen on the back of such queries, maybe posters could create threads on a regular basis with a journal article, new treatment guidelines or published case study/case series to discuss.

sleepyheadh wrote: »

I've offered a few opinions if you care to read them.

My main one at the moment would be to set up a medical advice forum, were every thread is immediately closed. What do you think penguin 88?

Sorry, from your response to sam above I thought you didn't intend this thread to be about medical advice and it was other posters who had brought it up. I don't think the volume of medical advice threads is affecting the level of other health sciences discussion in the forum.

January

sleepyheadh wrote: »

I've been over to legal discussion, there are far fewer closed threads there. I can work out the exact number of you like.

Why not create a medical discussion forum and a medical advice forum in which all threads are immediately closed?



Great example haha. So when you go to court do you often represent yourself? Most normal people have a legal team, with which discussing ideas which you have gathered from any source is perfectly reasonable.

I no the rule regarding medical advice is important. I wouldn't post a question asking for medical advice. It's people who are new to the forum that dont read other posts, and dont read the charter. Therfore, make a new medical advice forum to catch these people without ruining this forum.

Why not simply suggest that rather than close threads that are asking for medical advice, that they be deleted instead?

It's absolutely pointless to make a forum where every single thread would end up closed.

sleepyheadh

January wrote: »

It's absolutely pointless to make a forum where every single thread would end up closed.

Thats exactly my point. People who ask for medical advice don't read threads and don't read charters. Therefore, just make a place for them to post there medical advice threads. No one will read them, and it will be easy as pie for mods to deal with!

sleepyheadh

penguin88 wrote: »

I think it would be a good idea.

I absolutely agree, that is really what the health Sciences forum should be for.


Sorry, from your response to sam above I thought you didn't intend this thread to be about medical advice and it was other posters who had brought it up. I don't think the volume of medical advice threads is affecting the level of other health sciences discussion in the forum.

The intent of this thread is to discuss the current state of this thread. Immediately posters brought up the medical advice issue. I replied to this posts, What was I supposed to do, ignore them. I know you would be disappointed if I did that, since you are crying out for my opinion.

Thats far enough, if you don't think its a problem.

sleepyheadh

sam34 wrote: »

(I have no doubt you will cite this post as an example of mods being 'overzealous' etc etc, but I'm making it very clear what will be, and will not be, tolerated on this thread. Your one-man crusade that we have seen before will not be tolerated. )

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Hi guys,

Just thought I'd spark up a little conversation with this little tidbit.

Currently, on the front page of this forum, there are 6 out of 20 threads closed. Thats nearly a 33% of threads closed.

Is it time for this forum to simply roll over and die? What purpose is it here to fulfil?

Would love to hear what you guys think.

January wrote: »

Stems from the fact that you cannot ask for medical advice here and some people don't seem to get that.

penguin88 wrote: »

As January says, the reason for so many locked threads is there are so many posters seeking medical advice.

Just for Sam34's benefit, as you can see, I didn't start this tread to discuss my one-man crusade. I started a thread to discuss the current state of this forum. It appears that both January and Penguin88 wish to discuss the issue of Medical advice. Pretty nice, holdsome conversation thus far, and no charter violations yet.

Kurtosis

As I said, apologies, I obviously misinterpreted your opening post thinking you wished to discuss the medical advice issue.

Since this wasn't your intention, have you any suggestions on how to address the current state of the forum?

sleepyheadh

penguin88 wrote: »

As I said, apologies, I obviously misinterpreted your opening post thinking you wished to discuss the medical advice issue.

Since this wasn't your intention, have you any suggestions on how to address the current state of the forum?

I do penguin88.

I think that the purpose of this forum has been lost. I think you were correct in saying that it should be focused more on articles, and studies, interesting case studies, which people could discuss. The forum should also cater to health care professionals - whether this should be a subform, like the education one, I'm not entirely sure.

I know you don't agree, but I think that fact that 33% of the threads are closed on this forum is a major problem. I feel that it results in a decrease in conversation and discussion on the forum. If I was a new member looking at health sciences for the first time, I wouldn't think it was very interesting. considering I would not be able to even post on 33% of threads, no matter how interesting my point may be. I think this is a problem.

Therefore, to solve this, I feel that either a separate forum should be created, or as January suggested, simply deleting the closed threads off the forum.

If you take a look over at r/medicine and r/medicalschool you will see a great example of just how good this forum could be.

Kurtosis

sleepyheadh wrote: »

I do penguin88.

I think that the purpose of this forum has been lost. I think you were correct in saying that it should be focused more on articles, and studies, interesting case studies, which people could discuss. The forum should also cater to health care professionals - whether this should be a subform, like the education one, I'm not entirely sure.

I know you don't agree, but I think that fact that 33% of the threads are closed on this forum is a major problem. I feel that it results in a decrease in conversation and discussion on the forum. If I was a new member looking at health sciences for the first time, I wouldn't think it was very interesting. considering I would not be able to even post on 33% of threads, no matter how interesting my point may be. I think this is a problem.

Therefore, to solve this, I feel that either a separate forum should be created, or as January suggested, simply deleting the closed threads off the forum.

If you take a look over at r/medicine and r/medicalschool you will see a great example of just how good this forum could be.

I guess I'm not entirely convinced how much posters are put off from posting threads on legitimate topics by the locked medical advice threads. Deleting them would certainly help declutter the front page though could result in posters reposting their query. Regardless, it may be worth a trial run!

Thanks, I don't read reddit much but will definitely check those out. I think the forum is really what readers/posters make of it. I know I've thought about starting threads on interesting health sciences stories I'd come across a few times in recent weeks but never got around to it (such is life!) - I'm going to try and contribute more actively in future.

RobFowl

sleepyheadh wrote: »

I do penguin88.

Therefore, to solve this, I feel that either a separate forum should be created, or as January suggested, simply deleting the closed threads off the forum.

We did have a discussion among moderators re closed threads and what to do with them. We have mixed feelings as on one hand having the closed threads there might show posters that requests for medical advice etc will not be allowed. On the other hand they do clog up the page.

I'm going to take your suggestion here and delete the closed ones later to de-clutter the page.

sleepyheadh

RobFowl wrote: »

We did have a discussion among moderators re closed threads and what to do with them. We have mixed feelings as on one hand having the closed threads there might show posters that requests for medical advice etc will not be allowed. On the other hand they do clog up the page.

I'm going to take your suggestion here and delete the closed ones later to de-clutter the page.

What do you make of the idea to start a new forum to catch out people who are looking for medical advice. A kind of a decoy forum.

The people who start stupid threads looking for medical advice, clearly have not read the charter, and obviously don't post in Health Sciences regularly. If they just post in the "medical advice" forum, at least you'll have an easier time spotting them!

I understand your point about closed threads sending out a message. However, that is to assume that the people who start these threads are reading all the posts on the forum before posting theirs. If they don't no medical advice is not allowed here, they clearly have never read any thread on health Sciences.

sleepyheadh

penguin88 wrote: »

I guess I'm not entirely convinced how much posters are put off from posting threads on legitimate topics by the locked medical advice threads. Deleting them would certainly help declutter the front page though could result in posters reposting their query. Regardless, it may be worth a trial run!

Thanks, I don't read reddit much but will definitely check those out. I think the forum is really what readers/posters make of it. I know I've thought about starting threads on interesting health sciences stories I'd come across a few times in recent weeks but never got around to it (such is life!) - I'm going to try and contribute more actively in future.

Im not saying they are put off exactly. But say for example, there are 10 interesting threads active on the forum. If people keep starting threads that are destined to be closed, then the chances of someone who is just passing by sees an interesting thread is diminished.

Reddit, really does have some great subreddits relating to medicine. Much more liberal over there. Very interesting discussing are allowed to happen, and the worst that every really happens is it descends into a article off - people trying to prove each other wrong with scores of articles and reviews.

I think what boards has going for it, is that its Irish. Id love to see this forum turned into a region specific equivalent of r/medicine.

RobFowl

sleepyheadh wrote: »

What do you make of the idea to start a new forum to catch out people who are looking for medical advice. A kind of a decoy forum.

Requests for new forums are beyond the control of mere mods
It's an admin thing and there is a specific forum where new ones can be requested. If there is enough support they will consider it but it generally need a lot of posters supporting it.

Do see your point but the medical requests appear on all the ones a i frequent (cycling mainly) too..

sleepyheadh

RobFowl wrote: »

Requests for new forums are beyond the control of mere mods
It's an admin thing and there is a specific forum where new ones can be requested. If there is enough support they will consider it but it generally need a lot of posters supporting it.

I wasn't asking for you to set up a new forum, I was asking your opinion Rob. What do you think?

RobFowl wrote: »

Do see your point but the medical requests appear on all the ones a i frequent (cycling mainly) too..

Not sure what you mean here Rob, would you mind explaining?

Kurtosis

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Im not saying they are put off exactly. But say for example, there are 10 interesting threads active on the forum. If people keep starting threads that are destined to be closed, then the chances of someone who is just passing by sees an interesting thread is diminished.

Definitely agree, it would help improve the signal to noise ratio, just that it may not increase the amount of signal by itself! Hopefully it does though.

Reddit, really does have some great subreddits relating to medicine. Much more liberal over there. Very interesting discussing are allowed to happen, and the worst that every really happens is it descends into a article off - people trying to prove each other wrong with scores of articles and reviews.

I think what boards has going for it, is that its Irish. Id love to see this forum turned into a region specific equivalent of r/medicine.

Interesting discussions are allowed to happen here too I think, just not triggered by a request for medical advice. It just means those wishing to have a discussion need to kick off a topic themselves.

sleepyheadh

penguin88 wrote: »

Definitely agree, it would help improve the signal to noise ratio, just that it may not increase the amount of signal by itself! Hopefully it does though..

Only one way to find out I suppose!

penguin88 wrote: »

Interesting discussions are allowed to happen here too I think, just not triggered by a request for medical advice. It just means those wishing to have a discussion need to kick off a topic themselves.

What I mean is that discussion that would be immediately kicked from health sciences are allowed on r/medicine. Even down to medical advice.

Take a look at this.. This wasn't posted on r/medicine but was cross posted there.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/1fbusf/extreme_doms_from_gvt_cant_move_or_sleep_have/

How fast do you think this would be taken down on Boards!

theboy1

I completely agree with OP.

Mods on this site seem to take some perverted pleasure, bordering on sexual arousal from locking threads.

Its the ultimate show of power.

RobFowl

sleepyheadh wrote: »

I wasn't asking for you to set up a new forum, I was asking your opinion Rob. What do you think?



Not sure what you mean here Rob, would you mind explaining?

I see merit in the forum idea but don't have strong feelings one way or the other.

Re the second bit I had worded it badly. On cycling for example there are regular requests for medical advice and I suspect other forums get similar !

sleepyheadh

RobFowl wrote: »

I see merit in the forum idea but don't have strong feelings one way or the other.

Thats fine, if your indifferent thats ok, just looking for some opinions.

RobFowl wrote: »

Re the second bit I had worded it badly. On cycling for example there are regular requests for medical advice and I suspect other forums get similar !

Well I think at this stage you understand my stance on this matter. If it was up to me, all medical advice would be allowed, however I know that this is not the case. Maybe I'm naive but I have fate that people are not mindless children. People are able to make up their own minds, and I think that having as much information as possible, from as many sources as possible is a good thing.

However, I understand that you don't wish to get into that now and thats fine..Consider my rant over! ;-)

RobFowl

theboy1 wrote: »

I completely agree with OP.

Mods on this site seem to take some perverted pleasure, bordering on sexual arousal from locking threads.

Its the ultimate show of power.

Actually banning insulting posters for a week is far more pleasurable
Rob

sleepyheadh

RobFowl wrote: »

Actually banning insulting posters for a week is far more pleasurable
Rob

Arguably not really helping your case Rob. Maybe a little dialogue would be more effective? Only a suggestion though.

January

Just to make it perfectly clear, I've no interest in sparking a debate about the medical advice rule.

You asked why this forum had so many locked threads and I gave the reason. In my opinion that is the only reason this forum has so many locked threads. Simply deleting the threads rather than locking them would make it less cluttered and might invite more people to it.

sleepyheadh

January wrote: »

Just to make it perfectly clear, I've no interest in sparking a debate about the medical advice rule.

You asked why this forum had so many locked threads and I gave the reason. In my opinion that is the only reason this forum has so many locked threads. Simply deleting the threads rather than locking them would make it less cluttered and might invite more people to it.

Yep, we all agree January. No one is sparking any debate about the rule. I think Rob has already deleted the closed threads already, I might be wrong though.

The point of this thread was to get peoples opinion on how the thread could be improved. The results came back overwhelmingly showing that the closure of threads and then leaving them up was an issue. If anyone has any other suggestions I'd love to hear them.

Its kinda said to see threads that are left on the front page dating back till March. Really shows just how sluggish this forum can be. Hopefully the changes will help though.

gctest50

/r/obsessed

sleepyheadh

gctest50 wrote:

/r/obsessed

Going to need a little more gctest50..use your words!

EoghanIRL

There was a thread about amalgam fillings and pregnancy that was closed here and then opened in dental issues.
Dental issues seems to be much more lenient on this issue...

Is there a way to get around medical advice ? I.e asking the question in a hypothetical manner.

RobFowl

EoghanIRL wrote: »

There was a thread about amalgam fillings and pregnancy that was closed here and then opened in dental issues.
Dental issues seems to be much more lenient on this issue...

Is there a way to get around medical advice ? I.e asking the question in a hypothetical manner.

Medical advice is simply not allowed here and we have pretty much seen all the ways of trying to "get around" that before.
It is not allowed on boards as per t+c and forum charter and is not going to be. Any further posts asking it be allowed will be deleted.
Rob

Kurtosis

Just to follow up on the suggestion for a medical advice forum to "catch" all such requests and the threads being locked automatically - I see with the category reorganisation a number of forums have been grouped under "Health Issues" which appears just above Health Sciences in the forums list. Although not quite the same as what was suggested, I imagine this may help to divert some medical advice requests away from this forum.