Group Home Schooling

boogerballs

Quick question that maybe someone can answer.

In our local primary schools the class sizes are all 30+ kids. I think it is absolutely impossible for one teacher to teach this many and keep a high level of attention to each individual kids needs.

Would it be possible to get a group of 15 interested families to each pay lets say €3000 per year. From this €45,000 you could pay a primary teachers salary, rent a premises and pay for any books that are needed.

Legally is this possible or would any insurance costs shoot down the idea?

Any thoughts on this?

byhookorbycrook

What about PRSI and pension etc?If teacher is absent, who pays for a sub? It wouldn't count for her increments either. It probably could work in theory, but I can't see a fully qualified and probated teacher going for it, as a result

I know a friend of mine worked for very, very little with a school start up,where the parents paid her, but issues also arose where a few parents wanted more control of what she would teach, when she would teach it and it became quite awkward as then two parents accused her of spending more time with child x instead of child y and that she was only following the interests of other children.

PLL

Really like the idea. I agree about class sizes, my daughter will be starting in 2016 so researching schools at the moment.
I think the arrangement would have a lengthy, very detailed contract but I wouldn't say it is impossible.

byhookorbycrook

PLL wrote: »

I think the arrangement would have a lengthy, very detailed contract but I wouldn't say it is impossible.

I think you are right, but I can't see how you'd find a teacher to commit for any large amount of time. Worth sussing out, but remember priorities change, a young unemployed teacher may jump at it right now, but suppose they wanted to move/travel/buy a house down the line etc.

I'm only one teacher though, hopefully others will wade in and add their opinions.

strawberrie

There would have to be a lot of work done here to get something like this up and running. I think 45000 is a very low estimate of what it could cost.
There would need to be a second adult present for child protection purposes and so the teacher could have a lunch break. Would you be talking about 15children at a similar class level or a range of ages? A range of ages would mean a more complex level of work for the teacher. If you are talking about just one age group you may have some parents with younger/older siblings looking for a place too.
Schools don't just have text books but a range of resources for teaching including IT equipment, interactive whiteboards, sports equipment, mathematical manipulatives, art resources, musical instruments etc that may need to be purchased or borrowed and someone would have to maintain these too.
Schools also have to have policies and procedures in place to help ensure a code of behaviour is followed, that health and safety requirements are met, that enrolment procedures are fair and clear, that child protection issues are met, that anti bullying procedures are in place and there must be a school plan for all subject areas to show what is taught and how as well as countless other policies. I wonder if a sticky situation was to arise in this arrangement, who would hold the legal responsibility?
As mentioned above the teacher employed would be working under very different conditions to those paid for by the Dept of Education and Skills. This kind of ad hoc arrangement may not suit experienced and suitably qualified teachers.
It probably is not impossible, but to me it sounds more like trying to establish a private school rather than home schooling!

strawberrie

Guidelines-on-the-Assessment-of-Education-in-Places-Other-Than-Recognised-Schools
Might be worth a look on this topic.
I am too new to boards to post a link but it is on the dept of Educations website.

gctest50

boogerballs wrote: »

Quick question that maybe someone can answer.

In our local primary schools the class sizes are all 30+ kids. I think it is absolutely impossible for one teacher to teach this many and keep a high level of attention to each individual kids needs.

Would it be possible to get a group of 15 interested families to each pay lets say €3000 per year. From this €45,000 you could pay a primary teachers salary, rent a premises and pay for any books that are needed.

you could just pay the school 3000 each - save all the headaches

afkasurfjunkie

gctest50 wrote: »

you could just pay the school 3000 each - save all the headaches

Yes to this. I've heard anecdotes where the board of management and parents association fundraiser to pay To keep a teacher in their school, where the school was due to lose a teacher due to a tiny fall in numbers.

boogerballs

gctest50 wrote: »

you could just pay the school 3000 each - save all the headaches

But the class sizes would still be the same no??

boogerballs

strawberrie wrote: »

There would have to be a lot of work done here to get something like this up and running. I think 45000 is a very low estimate of what it could cost.
There would need to be a second adult present for child protection purposes and so the teacher could have a lunch break. Would you be talking about 15children at a similar class level or a range of ages? A range of ages would mean a more complex level of work for the teacher. If you are talking about just one age group you may have some parents with younger/older siblings looking for a place too.
Schools don't just have text books but a range of resources for teaching including IT equipment, interactive whiteboards, sports equipment, mathematical manipulatives, art resources, musical instruments etc that may need to be purchased or borrowed and someone would have to maintain these too.
Schools also have to have policies and procedures in place to help ensure a code of behaviour is followed, that health and safety requirements are met, that enrolment procedures are fair and clear, that child protection issues are met, that anti bullying procedures are in place and there must be a school plan for all subject areas to show what is taught and how as well as countless other policies. I wonder if a sticky situation was to arise in this arrangement, who would hold the legal responsibility?
As mentioned above the teacher employed would be working under very different conditions to those paid for by the Dept of Education and Skills. This kind of ad hoc arrangement may not suit experienced and suitably qualified teachers.
It probably is not impossible, but to me it sounds more like trying to establish a private school rather than home schooling!

Of course this is just a random question at this point. But i was thinking a class of all kids the same age. so starting from junior infants and moving up the same each year.

Some of the parents that live beside me are already heavily involved in their kids primary schools. I was thinking with enough commitment from the parents the areas of lunch time supervision and maintenance of supplies could be managed.

boogerballs

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I think you are right, but I can't see how you'd find a teacher to commit for any large amount of time. Worth sussing out, but remember priorities change, a young unemployed teacher may jump at it right now, but suppose they wanted to move/travel/buy a house down the line etc.

I'm only one teacher though, hopefully others will wade in and add their opinions.

This is something I didn't consider, but I read all the time about primary school teachers being out of work. Surely there is some that live in this locality who have ties to the area (house, kids, partners job) who would be less of a "flight risk" so to speak.

Redser87

Another thing to consider would be whether a school of this type would allow an NQT to do their Dip (the diploma that has to be done in three, max five years after initial qualification in order to remain registered with the Teaching Council). I would imagine it would not be eligible as many private schools are not. That would be where I would see a young, unemployed teacher being on the lookout for maternity leaves etc in a mainstream setting, so that they could get the Dip done.
Another thing, if you were serious about having Junior Infants all the way up to Sixth, is that in a mainstream setting a staff of 8 or more (I am almost certain it's 8 plus) would mean that the principal would become an administrative principal, rather than a teaching principal. If you wanted your teacher to stay around for the long haul, they might want the security of knowing that there is a potential for progression.
Would you intend to have a secretary/ cleaner/ caretaker? All requiring salaries. And how about a SEN team - resource teachers, learning support teachers, SNAs? And in your scenario, are all of the children native English speakers, or might you also require an EAL teacher?
None of these questions are intended to put you off by the way, I can see where the appeal would be both for parents and the teacher, but there is an awful lot that goes on in your average school that you would have to consider for this kind of set-up.

Windorah

If all the necessary arrangements were put in place I can't see how the proposal is any different from a fee paying school?

I think If it was a much smaller number of children, say two/three families who wished to homeschool and have more of an input into their child's education then perhaps it could work.

Millem

I think you would need a lot more than €3000 per pupil.
Fee paying junior schools have higher fees than fee paying secondary schools because they get no government funding. These junior schools are struggling to survive and are closing down.

If you are really serious look into how "Dalkey school project" started. You could even contact the parents who set it up.

http://www.dspns.ie/about-us/about/

silverharp

An alternative would be just to come up with a programme you can do at home independently of the school. Im a parent and we came to the conclusion that the two basics that we wanted to instill were, a love of reading and good maths skills , everything else they will pick up along the way. My wife focused on the reading and I do the maths , with the maths there is some great material/software online which track progress etc and you can practice in a way that is just not possible in a school environment. The advantage is that as you are working along side them a bit more, its easier to pick up on gaps.

huskerdu

I agree that the idea is laudable but you are effectively setting up a private school and therefore you need a clear set of policies and my opinion is that it would take a lot of work and will end in a row some day.

Once people are paying 3000 a year which is a lot of money ( and its doesn't sound like enough to me), then they will start demanding that they dictate the policies and then you will have 15 different views on the policies.

You definitely need insurance. No way can you avoid the fact that some child will get injured and the parents will demand compensation.

You will also need a clear policy on the teaching of religion. If you think can get 15 families to agree to a policy on that, you are very brave.