What Degree for network engineering?

matthew1998

I want to go to university. But I'm having trouble choosing a degree to become a network engineer. For example , at NUI Galway there is

1.Business Information Systems
2.Computer Science
3.Electronic and Computer Engineering
4.Something else?

Thanks for your time!

Cuddlesworth

Take your pick. None of them would have much relevance to networking, in terms of support. You will be expected to qualify professionally afterwards to earn any decent money.

StoptheClocks

matthew1998 wrote: »

I want to go to university. But I'm having trouble choosing a degree to become a network engineer. For example , at NUI Galway there is

1.Business Information Systems
2.Computer Science
3.Electronic and Computer Engineering
4.Something else?

Thanks for your time!

You'll probably find that there is little difference in the 3 titles.
I did Electronics and computing (not in NUI). The course content was about 70% the same as computer Science. Only a few subjects were different. The core subjects were the same.

djfattony2000

I did Electronic Eng and Computer Eng in DIT. Loads of networking in them including final year projects.

You will need to do Cisco exams afterwards though.

matthew1998

Thanks for the responce guys. I would relly love to get a job as networking engineer at Amazon! should I bother going to Uni or is it a waste of time? Perhaps go to an IT or do Cisco Exams straight out the bat?

StoptheClocks

Have a look at the requirements Amazon are typically asking for. Don't limit yourself to one company.
Cloud computing is a big subject these days. There a lot of companies out sourcing their servers to using amazon these days.

Uni might be a waste of time and money but you usually need it on your CV to get an interview with the big companies.

matthew1998

StoptheClocks wrote: »

You'll probably find that there is little difference in the 3 titles.
I did Electronics and computing (not in NUI). The course content was about 70% the same as computer Science. Only a few subjects were different. The core subjects were the same.

Kind of off course here... but if I am not too interested in software development (more of a hardware guy) should i do EE & CE?

matthew1998

StoptheClocks wrote: »

They seem to be looking for a "A relevant degree in a related technical discipline".
Would EE & CE cover this or computer science?

The also look for a lot of networking experience...

StoptheClocks

matthew1998 wrote: »

They seem to be looking for a "A relevant degree in a related technical discipline".
Would EE & CE cover this or computer science?

The also look for a lot of networking experience...

Try emailing their HR department. They usually filter the CV's they take in for jobs.
In my experience companies usually want a bachelors degree or better (they dont usually care about the title, as long as you can problem solve and pick stuff up quickly). If they get a lot of CV's for a job , they will filter them accordingly . Budget is also a consideration. They might be looking for a junior role with less experience.

matthew1998

StoptheClocks wrote: »

Would they prefer university as opposed to an I.T.?

ED E

Any of the big tech companies want a Bachelors in something, they usually dont care hugely what though. Google is full of physics grads.


Dont know that theres any course out there that'll give you more than a CCNA level in networking, so you'r always going to have to do further work whichever you pick.

amen

OP,

In order to get a technical job in any multinational in Ireland you realistically need an Honours Degree (Level 8 on the National Qualifications Framework).
By technical job I don't mean an operator on an assembly line or 1st level phone support.

It shouldn't really matter if the degree is from a Uni or IT as along as you get a good final grade. An interesting final year project also helps.

Taking the Amazon case when the the degree required is a related technical discipline they generally mean any technical degree i.e. Electronics Engineering (or derivatives), Computer Science, Physics, Maths etc (I've even seen Chemistry Grads).

As for a networking Job realistically you are going to need Cisco Qualifications and several years experience unless they are offering a grad position where they train you.

Again without the degree you won't be getting an interview.

*I'm sure someone will come back with a story about their seconds cousins wife's aunts son who has no degree and who works in IT. There people might exists but are rare.

matthew1998

Thanks guys!

Cuddlesworth

Get the degree. There are 10 thousand people out there with no degree and a CCNA thanks to FAS. To get some actual experience you will need to set yourself apart. Most people who started 15 years ago have the experience now and don't care about degrees themselves.

Networking itself is moving heavily towards Dev OP's, so programming (particularly python) is a must for future automation. If you were aiming in a future in networking, I'd be aiming any projects you have in college towards that.

When or if you get a job, you will need to cert up. Cisco, Juniper, HP and Alcatel all have industry networking qualifications that are worldwide recognized. They take years of study to complete and are continuously re-assessed. Those certs go far more into depth on every aspect of networking then any college in Ireland ever would. In general Cisco is the best one to start with, since they are actually the most vendor agnostic of the bunch.

There tends to be a difference between company support and ISP support, where ISP Engineers tend to specialise into specific hardware/network types.

There is no hardware in networking, not at a high level. Most of the time you won't see the device you are working on, you will never leave your seat. Its websites and CLI's all day. And lots of meetings.

amen

Op I was thinking about your first post re network engineer.

Do you mean working in
A: a company handling their network traffic(maybe in a bank, Google, etc)
B: do you mean working for a telecommunications company design network connectivity
C: do you mean working in company such as Cisco/HP designing network equipment (or writing the software for same).

TBH it really makes no difference in terms of degree but if you are interested in options B/C then a degree in engineering/physics may be more suitable.

matthew1998

amen wrote: »

handling network traffic...for example , amazon!

ED E

Sounds like you want a NOC job.

matthew1998

ED E wrote: »

Sounds like you want a NOC job.

where is the most money?

amen

forget the money.

Choose something you like and will have a passion about. If you do this you should become good at your job and the money will follow.

matthew1998

amen wrote: »

i just wanna be able to live comfortably... i like them all. is it similar money...

btw, im not a money hore, i just wanna know!

matthew1998

amen wrote: »

i just wanna be able to live comfortably... i like them all. is it similar money?

btw, im not a money hore, i just wanna know!

demakinz

You could do Bachelor of Science in Network Management in Athlone IT. It includes the Cisco CCNA, Wireless, IT Essentials, VoIP and Security certifications as part of the degree.

Its a level 7 and you can do a 1 year add on Network Management and Cloud Infrastructure level 8 where you do some Java and python and get other Cisco certs.

TallGlass

Ok, can someone clear this up for me as some posters have mentioned this situation I am in. Started in a first level support so level 1 I am studying for the Cisco CCNA cert, have gone the acad route before so should be able to get it easily.

Now people are saying this is a bad route to take and I should go college again? I though once I was in the door with some company I could move up over time.

matthew1998

demakinz wrote: »

I'll look into it thanks a million!

imitation

I'm not an expert but I would maybe look at the other two courses if networking and pure technical stuff is your thing, I believe BIS is a bit less focused on Hardware and software with a bit more on business process, or at least the graduates I met gave me that impression anyway.

matthew1998

imitation wrote: »

Hmmm...Thanks

Cuddlesworth

amen wrote: »

Do you mean working in
A: a company handling their network traffic(maybe in a bank, Google, etc)
B: do you mean working for a telecommunications company design network connectivity

TBH it really makes no difference in terms of degree but if you are interested in options B/C then a degree in engineering/physics may be more suitable.

ISP networks tend to be far less complex then networks like Googles. They run edge hardware, with layer 2 backbones and a usually no more then a handful of BGP EPOPS. Corporate networks use so many additional technologies and protocols which scale into different support structures and cultures.

And design and operation are handled by separate teams in larger companies.

matthew1998 wrote: »

where is the most money?

Financial trading. Or strike Oil.

demakinz wrote: »

You could do Bachelor of Science in Network Management in Athlone IT. It includes the Cisco CCNA, Wireless, IT Essentials, VoIP and Security certifications as part of the degree.

Its a level 7 and you can do a 1 year add on Network Management and Cloud Infrastructure level 8 where you do some Java and python and get other Cisco certs.

That sounds really good. Gives a solid base for really good lvl 1/2 IT support and a quick ramp up.

TallGlass wrote: »

Ok, can someone clear this up for me as some posters have mentioned this situation I am in. Started in a first level support so level 1 I am studying for the Cisco CCNA cert, have gone the acad route before so should be able to get it easily.

Now people are saying this is a bad route to take and I should go college again? I though once I was in the door with some company I could move up over time.

The CCNA is a devalued cert. If you want to break it down it basically explains how a switch and router operate. 15 years ago that put you in a good position, since most companies had a router and a handful of switches. Today even mid size companies have relatively complex set-ups in which you will be expected to understand and fix. The CCNA on its own does not prepare you for this.

There are also **** tons of CCNA's in the market, every second person leaving FAS has one. And the number of actual networking jobs gets smaller and smaller, as the devices and automation improve. Or your expected to broaden your role, making it more difficult to get experience or specialise.

imitation wrote: »

I'm not an expert but I would maybe look at the other two courses if networking and pure technical stuff is your thing, I believe BIS is a bit less focused on Hardware and software with a bit more on business process, or at least the graduates I met gave me that impression anyway.

That might not necessarily be a bad thing. The lack of business acumen is a large problem in the Irish market at the moment.

dmc17

Another course here in computer networks in LIT. I studied BIS, and it is heavily business oriented and wouldn't really prepare you for a career in networking.

pug_

You should be aware that networking is likely to change significantly over the next 10 years or so. Things are moving more towards a virtualised environment with more focus on development skills. I know companies like facebook currently send all their network people on programming courses to learn scripting for automation.

If you're serious about a career in networking and you want to do a degree then you should probably choose a course that will include elements that will be useful for networking in the coming years and don't just focus on current technology.

Also I'd recommend having a look at Cisco certification. The CCNA is a good introduction to networking, but networking is huge and no matter where you wind up you're probably going to have to specialise. Most Network engineers with any experience will have a CCNP (usually Routing & Switching) as a minimum industry qualification. I'm not suggesting you try the CCNP, it's difficult without any experience (not to mention expensive), but if there is a particular area of networking you know you're interested in maybe try a CCNA that specialises in that first and see how you get on. At the very least having a Cisco certification that focuses on an area you are interested in may give you an advantage.

TallGlass

pug_ wrote: »

You should be aware that networking is likely to change significantly over the next 10 years or so. Things are moving more towards a virtualised environment with more focus on development skills. I know companies like facebook currently send all their network people on programming courses to learn scripting for automation.

If you're serious about a career in networking and you want to do a degree then you should probably choose a course that will include elements that will be useful for networking in the coming years and don't just focus on current technology.

Also I'd recommend having a look at Cisco certification. The CCNA is a good introduction to networking, but networking is huge and no matter where you wind up you're probably going to have to specialise. Most Network engineers with any experience will have a CCNP (usually Routing & Switching) as a minimum industry qualification. I'm not suggesting you try the CCNP, it's difficult without any experience (not to mention expensive), but if there is a particular area of networking you know you're interested in maybe try a CCNA that specialises in that first and see how you get on. At the very least having a Cisco certification that focuses on an area you are interested in may give you an advantage.

Pug, what do you mean by a virtual environment? Routers and Switches do this already its nothing new? Vlans, Router on a stick etc..

Could you suggest a part time degree course ?

pug_

I wouldn't consider VLANs to be in any way virtulisation, that's just breaking up layer2 domains, but maybe I'm too old school and they're teaching it differently now, I suppose you could argue that conceptually it's possible to visualise it that way if it helps.

I don't mean VRFs or anything like that either. Lately Cisco are putting a lot of focus on virtualisation and are looking to alter the whole idea of what a router is. Roughly speaking the idea is that in years to come it'll be possible to define the parameters of how the network should look (ospf areas, IP addressing to use, number and location of POPs, QoS etc.) and then deploy that network with a single push without having to build the config or use a single CLI command. And then do that over and over again on the same hardware for different scenarios or different customers, much the same way virtual servers are deployed today.

The scripting element comes about with a self healing network amongst other things. So if there is a problem on the network someone will troubleshoot it as normal, but when a root cause is discovered, after it's fixed you write up a script to look for that exact problem again and once identified take corrective action (not necessarally fix the problem though that's the ultimate aim but if downtime is required or if there is a risk at the very least inform the right people exactly what is wrong and how to fix).

[EDIT] I can't help with recommending courses I'm afraid, I'm out of 3rd level education a long time now so I don't know what's available.

matthew1998

The reason I wanted to become a network engineer is because it's a tech job that pays nicely and doesn't involve too much coding.... and now your saying there will be lots of coding in the future?

I have leaned C# and i'm good at it. But my real passion is for hardware!

Is there any tech job that does not require (too much) code and pays remotely well?

pug_

I've been a network engineer for about 15 years and I can tell you that very little of the job entails hardware.

The main hardware element to the job is understanding what the options are and what the capability of each option is, but once you understand that and the kit is deployed the only time hardware is looked at is when an upgrade is needed or of there is a hardware fault.

For the most part the job can be split into a few different areas. Designing, testing, deploying new services, and troubleshooting a problem. Depending on the size of the company this will either be the one person (or team) doing everything, or responsibilities will be split between people (or teams). For all of those what's needed more than anything is a deep understanding of networking protocols, and an appreciation of how making changes will impact on the existing network. Believe me the amount of knowledge needed to do the job well is vast, you could spend years studying just networking and still feel like a novice on certain topics.

As for the future of networking, nothing is certain. There will be companies that will keep doing business the way they do now because it works for them, but industry wise predictions are for a more virtulised less hands on approach becoming more standard over time. I don't have a crystal ball so it may not happen but if networking is where you want to be then there is no harm educating yourself on where the industry sees its self heading in the coming years.

Cuddlesworth

matthew1998 wrote: »

The reason I wanted to become a network engineer is because it's a tech job that pays nicely and doesn't involve too much coding.... and now your saying there will be lots of coding in the future?

I have leaned C# and i'm good at it. But my real passion is for hardware!

Is there any tech job that does not require (too much) code and pays remotely well?

Windows Admin, need to learn powershell.

Linux Admin, thats a python

Network admin, again python.

Vmware, that's actually powershell.

You need to remember, hardware is simple. Round peg, square hole sort of thing. So if you want to earn money, you get to the point where 1 of you can do the work of 5 other "hardware" people. And that means either automation or service enhancement.

Overheal

Mac OS, that's a paddlin.

Overheal

Electronic and Computer engineering sounds like a mix of electrical engineering (multi-phase power, inductance, **** I don't even know or understand, signal processing) and computer engineering (also signal processing, programming, logic, eeeeeeetc.)

My roommates an EE and listening to him cram for his exams - he definitely had to know "what is a packet" and the definition was easy enough to follow, but that was just the start of the test. Baaaasically, he has to know enough to build a network from scratch - like what methods to program a computer to transmit bits of information, accommodate for packet loss, latency, and all sorts of other madness.

Business information systems sounds more geared toward the software side of things - deploying software to networks, security and firewalls, troubleshooting the mother****ingcowknobbling Xerox machine, etc. but is just as much related to things relevant to Amazon Cloud Services like network storage and synchronization, etc.

Computer Science (don't mistake with computer engineering) is very much about 0s, 1s, programming, all the nerdy information you would need to know to build your own CPU in minecraft, etc. etc. etc. - Computer Engineering deals more with physical hardware, thermodynamics (cooling and waste-heating of electronic components), eeeeeeeeetc.

joebothers

Look at CCNA training videos on YouTube and see what you think. Your better off doing a degree rather than just certs at your age.


Don't jump into something because it sounds cool. I wasted my first year of college doing electronic engineering and hated it from day one. Changed to computer science then and loved it. Have a look at windows server, Linux, Oracle, cloud computing and see which one you like best.