Road to the rising event today - good public service?

patob

Dropped in to the city today for the 1915 heritage event. Very enjoyable in terms of recreating a slice of Dublin in 1915. Nice costumes, memorabilia and musical vibes in glorious spring sunshine. Liked Jack L in particular doing stylish versions of some early 1900 ditties like Macushla. Credit to RTE, Dublin city council - money well spent.

stanley1980

Totally agree. My only gripe was that it was too busy!! We did one of the free walking tours- the guide described some of the key events of the Rising- it was brilliant, so interesting. To be honest what was best of all was seeing the public enjoying O'Connell Street on a lovely sunny day minus the usual gangs of junkies, drunks and other dodgy characters. A tantalising vision of what the city centre could and should be like.....

patob

Would be nice to recreate this type of event, where all age groups can feel safe and relaxed. Gardai had a quiet day I expect.
On a negative note, sad that some of the store facades and signage on O'Connell St are still shamefully cheap and tacky. I understood DCC were going to address this for anniversary of 1916.

KingBrian2

Yeah it was a good day.

Qualitymark

Hopefully they'll do it next year, but all across the city. A big parade would be nice too, with floats and dancers and music.

chughes

I was in Liberty Hall where they were screening all eight episodes of Insurrection. John Bowman gave an entertaining introductory speech where he outlined the problems RTE have regarding payment of royalties to actors if they rebroadcast it on TV. As yesterday's viewing was a charitable event there wasn't a requirement for these payments but Bowman did make the point that the RTE archives department did do a great job restoring the footage and that it deserves a wider audience. He suggested that it could be released as a DVD boxset and any royalties due could be paid to the Equity benevolent fund.


Although its in black and white, the picture and sound quality is very good and I do hope it is released on boxset at some stage. I only had time to stay for the first episode so I would love to see the rest of the episodes some time.

Qualitymark

I loved this mockumentary when it first came out - it really would be great to have it on DVD. It isn't perfect - it edits out large chunks of the Rising including important characters - but it's brilliant. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1908819/?ref_=ttfc_fc_tt

One of the best things about it is its use of contemporary newsreaders like Maurice O'Doherty "presenting the news" as it happens.

chughes

John Bowman did say that RTE felt that, prior to broadcasting the series, the government might be a bit put out by the fact that Micheal Collins appears 5 or 6 times during the series while Eamon de Valera doesn't appear at all.RTE's rationale was that they didn't want to cast an actor to play the part of someone who was still alive at that stage.

Qualitymark

Yes, you'd imagine that they should have included all seven signatories, too! I suspect that the slant of the storyline comes from the writers, Hugh Leonard and Max Caulfield, and the directors, Michael Garvey and Louis Lentin, rather than from RTÉ.

Del.Monte

chughes wrote: »

I was in Liberty Hall where they were screening all eight episodes of Insurrection. John Bowman gave an entertaining introductory speech where he outlined the problems RTE have regarding payment of royalties to actors if they rebroadcast it on TV. As yesterday's viewing was a charitable event there wasn't a requirement for these payments but Bowman did make the point that the RTE archives department did do a great job restoring the footage and that it deserves a wider audience. He suggested that it could be released as a DVD boxset and any royalties due could be paid to the Equity benevolent fund.


Although its in black and white, the picture and sound quality is very good and I do hope it is released on boxset at some stage. I only had time to stay for the first episode so I would love to see the rest of the episodes some time.

I'm sick and tired of the royalties excuse being wheeled out by RTE. They have an archive stuffed with material never likely to see the light of day due to inertia not royalties. Other historical items blocked by the royalties issue include "The Year of the French" and "Caught in a Free State" and much else. You contact RTE's Archive department and a polite apology and the royalty issue is routinely given as the reason why you can't even have a one-off copy made. Back in the 1980s I got RTE to run off a VHS tape specially for me - it cost well over 100 Punts - but at least the service was available. Somebody needs to be put in to RTE to sort the issue out once and for all.

Qualitymark

Actors generally get residuals when a film they're in is shown, but these are by no means huge.
Here's some extracts from another fabulous film gathering dust in the RTÉ archives, the poet Padraic Fallon's 1966 meditation Sword of Steel. The first words spoken are spine-chilling:

(The extracts start about 1:13 in from the beginning.)

gaiscioch

Qualitymark wrote: »

Actors generally get residuals when a film they're in is shown, but these are by no means huge.
Here's some extracts from another fabulous film gathering dust in the RTÉ archives, the poet Padraic Fallon's 1966 meditation Sword of Steel. The first words spoken are spine-chilling:

(The extracts start about 1:13 in from the beginning.)

That's an absolutely stunning version of Róisín Dubh by Nioclás Tóibín, perhaps even surpassing Caitlín Maude's one.

pedroeibar1

We''l be sick of the thing by the time it's over. When I hear guff about slavery, followed by the "Abbey Accent" and then a dose of the exaggerated slender 'r' I turn off.

Qualitymark

pedroeibar1

Never could take to Breen, shooting unarmed policemen (“I’m sorry there were not more of them”) does not require much courage, although he did not lack that. There always was too much bombast about him (“My only regret that I let too many escape” and “I did not kill enough of them”. He simply was not a nice person and very mercenary – he refused to pay Katherine O’Doherty (nee Gibbons, wife of Seamus O’Doherty, the IRB man) what was agreed for ghost writing his “My Fight for Irish Freedom”. You should watch that 1967 interview from the beginning, gives a more realistic image of the man. In a way that interview is slightly reminiscent of the self-serving Pee Flynn one with Gaybo.

DavidRamsay99

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Never could take to Breen, shooting unarmed policemen (“I’m sorry there were not more of them”) does not require much courage, although he did not lack that. There always was too much bombast about him (“My only regret that I let too many escape” and “I did not kill enough of them”. He simply was not a nice person and very mercenary – he refused to pay Katherine O’Doherty (nee Gibbons, wife of Seamus O’Doherty, the IRB man) what was agreed for ghost writing his “My Fight for Irish Freedom”. You should watch that 1967 interview from the beginning, gives a more realistic image of the man. In a way that interview is slightly reminiscent of the self-serving Pee Flynn one with Gaybo.

Breen shot men working for the Crown who were arresting elected members of Dáil Éireann and trying to suppress Sinn Féin who won an overwhelming majority of Irish seats in the 1918 election.

The British terrorized the Irish people by sending over the Black and Tans, burning creameries, farms, businesses and homes, closing markets, raping and murdering and looting at will.

Breen and men others like him were heroes.

The reason you live in freedom and in an independent Republic of Ireland today is because of men like him who had the guts to fight.

pedroeibar1

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

Breen shot men working for the Crown who were arresting elected members of Dáil Éireann and trying to suppress Sinn Féin who won an overwhelming majority of Irish seats in the 1918 election.

The British terrorized the Irish people by sending over the Black and Tans, burning creameries, farms, businesses and homes, closing markets, raping and murdering and looting at will.

Breen and men others like him were heroes.

The reason you live in freedom and in an independent Republic of Ireland today is because of men like him who had the guts to fight.

More noise from you, a complete lack of understanding of the events and the person, full of errors and not a source in sight. For starters, the Soloheadbeg “ambush” happened in January 1919. The two constables were James McDonnell and Patrick O'Connell, both Catholics. McDonnell was from Mayo, a widower with four children. O'Connell, from Cork, was about 30 and unmarried. According to several sources (local history & newspaper) both were very popular policemen within the community.

At Solohead, Tracey jumped out from behind a hedge, ordered the horsecart guarded by the two to stop at which time Breen shot them. He (Breen) later claimed, and repeated it in "My fight for Irish Freedom" that the two raised their rifles and he was forced to shoot them. (I’m not going to go as far as the claims made by Robinson, but suffice to say I go with what is believed locally and was told to me by an Old IRA man who served with Breen & Tracey, they were shot in cold blood.)

The facts get in the way of your rant. Contrary to your allegation, the Black & Tans were not formed until a year after Soloheadbeg, in January 1920, and did not arrive in numbers until later that year.

Additionally, your claim of “rape” is both incorrect and baseless. Give me just one source. Just one. If you really knew anything about the matter you would know that the War of Indep and Civil War were distinctive in early 20th century Europe because rapine was not only not used as a “tool of war” but was an almost unheard of occurrence. In fact, one of the very few times it happened was when the servants in a ‘Big House’ in Co. Limerick were taken aside, the RC girls left aloneand the Church of Ireland ones were molested, by the IRA.
Go read Gemma Clarke’s book, Everyday Violence in the Irish Civil War The campaign of fire. It is a great read, rather academic but th edetail it contains would prevent you from looking as stupid as your last post indicates.:D

Jesus.

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

At Solohead, Tracey jumped out from behind a hedge, ordered the horsecart guarded by the two to stop at which time Breen shot them. He (Breen) later claimed, and repeated it in "My fight for Irish Freedom" that the two raised their rifles and he was forced to shoot them. (I’m not going to go as far as the claims made by Robinson, but suffice to say I go with what is believed locally and was told to me by an Old IRA man who served with Breen & Tracey, they were shot in cold blood.)

The facts get in the way of your rant.:D

Where are your "facts" regarding the above rant?

Any links?

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Additionally, your claim of “rape” is both incorrect and baseless. Give me just one source. Just one.

I wouldn't bother, Dave Ramsay. I gave him all the info he asked of similar during to & prior to the '98 but it looks like it went in one ear and out the other

pedroeibar1

Jesus. wrote: »

Where are your "facts" regarding the above? Any links?

You need to chill a bit and let the facts speak rather than try to twist them to suit your views.
Watch the video I quoted earlier. The following is from here

Constables James McDonnell and Patrick O'Connell (both Irish born Catholics), had been walking with loaded rifles escorting a horse drawn cart containing a load of gelignite from Tipperary Military Barracks for blasting purpose at Soloheadbeg Quarry (located 3 miles from Tipperary). Constable McDonnell, who was about 50 years was from Belmullet, County Mayo. He was a widower with four children. Constable O'Connell, from Coachford, County Cork, was about 30 years and unmarried. According to the page 1 of The Cork Examiner 21 January, 1919 and Robert Kee author of The Green Flag" (London 1972), p.632, both constables were very popular policemen within the community.………. A group of masked men of the I.R.A.'s 3rd Tipperary Brigade, which included Dan Breen, Sean Hogan, Seamus Robbinson and Sean Treacy, jumped over the roadside fence near the quarry and shouted "hands up". Dan Breen claims in his book "My fight for Irish Freedom" (Anvil Books Dublin 1928) that the constables raised their rifles in preparation and that they were forced to kill the two constables.

That Breen wanted to kill someone is a well-known fact, for example from here.

Breen later admitted that the group wanted to start a war and knew that the only way to do so was to kill someone.

Now, your turn. Please give me one newspaper report of rape by the RIC or go away.

Jesus.

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

You need to chill a bit and let the facts speak rather than try to twist them to suit your views.
Watch the video I quoted earlier. The following is from here

What "facts"? All that is well known. I'm asking you about where you said they were shot in cold blood. If I put up something I said someone told me about the RIC shooting someone in cold blood you'd say it was hearsay.

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

That Breen wanted to kill someone is a well-known fact, for example from here.

Again, that is widely known! Why do you keep going off the points raised?

I'm sure many RIC/B&Tans/Auxies/B Army had feelings about wanting to kill someone but does that mean they automatically went out and shot people in cold blood?

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Now, your turn. Please give me one newspaper report of rape by the RIC or go away.

I never made such a claim. That was someone else. I merely advised the poster challenging you that you have form of getting things wrong in this regard so I wouldn't be surprised if you had this wrong aswell. I however have no idea whether they did or not.

Having said that, you quickly retorted with rape claims of your own during the Civil War by the looks of it (different conflict btw). You made me go and read back through a whole book before to get the "evidence" you kept demanding so its only right you should do so for this poster now, rather than just giving him the title of a book to go and track down and read in its entirety.

Your revisionist, one-sided, loyalist propagandist bias is as apparent as the keyboard on which I type, kind Sir.

Don't think you have anyone fooled

Jesus.

Docu on Breen was on last night (repeat). It gives a bit of context to his "Revolutionary" zeal and his contempt for (hatred of?) the Police.


http://www.tg4.tv/play.php?pid=4189885322001&title=Dan%20Breen-%20My%20Fight%20for%20Irish%20Freedom&series=Dan%20Breen-%20My%20Fight%20for%20Irish%20Freedom

pedroeibar1

Jesus. wrote: »

What "facts"? All that is well known. I'm asking you about where you said they were shot in cold blood. If I put up something I said someone told me about the RIC shooting someone in cold blood you'd say it was hearsay.




Again, that is widely known! Why do you keep going off the points raised?

I'm sure many RIC/B&Tans/Auxies/B Army had feelings about wanting to kill someone but does that mean they automatically went out and shot people in cold blood?



I never made such a claim. That was someone else. I merely advised the poster challenging you that you have form of getting things wrong in this regard so I wouldn't be surprised if you had this wrong aswell. I however have no idea whether they did or not.

Having said that, you quickly retorted with rape claims of your own during the Civil War by the looks of it (different conflict btw). You made me go and read back through a whole book before to get the "evidence" you kept demanding so its only right you should do so for this poster now, rather than just giving him the title of a book to go and track down and read in its entirety.

Your revisionist, one-sided, loyalist propagandist bias is as apparent as the keyboard on which I type, kind Sir.

Don't think you have anyone fooled

Back to name calling now that you have been found out again.
Two RIC men were shot in cold blood - all historians are in agreement (not that there is much debate, as Breen himself admitted it). Seven armed men jump out from a hedge and confront two cops sauntering along beside a mate on a horsecart, rifles slung over shoulders, expecting nothing. Were you one of them would you reach for your gun? (Well, perhaps, maybe you would…). That is not the issue, nor is Dan’s motive. You supported a claim of RIC raping the population. You have been called on that and asked to produce a source, you have not done so or withdrawn it and again bluster on. Stop the name calling, produce a source and regain just a little credibility ….:D

pedroeibar1

It’s only fair to admit that I’m writing about Breen with an inside perspective – I was a child when I met him, have a read of what I wrote here, penultimate paragraph. I sometimes wonder if it is a pity I was too young to listen to him.

Jesus.

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Back to name calling now that you have been found out again.
Two RIC men were shot in cold blood - all historians are in agreement (not that there is much debate, as Breen himself admitted it). Seven armed men jump out from a hedge and confront two cops sauntering along beside a mate on a horsecart, rifles slung over shoulders, expecting nothing. Were you one of them would you reach for your gun? (Well, perhaps, maybe you would…)

I'm sorry but you said this above:

At Solohead, Tracey jumped out from behind a hedge, ordered the horsecart guarded by the two to stop at which time Breen shot them. He (Breen) later claimed, and repeated it in "My fight for Irish Freedom" that the two raised their rifles and he was forced to shoot them. (I’m not going to go as far as the claims made by Robinson, but suffice to say I go with what is believed locally and was told to me by an Old IRA man who served with Breen & Tracey, they were shot in cold blood.)

So you are saying that someone told you sometime, somewhere that they were shot in cold blood. Breen claims they went for their weapons which forced him to shoot.

Which story is true? Breen's? Or the one you say somebody, sometime, somewhere told you? Who knows but one thing we do know is that you have zero facts to support a claim which you said you had facts to support.

Now please stop trying to mislead everybody with your notions pertaining them to be facts.

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

That is not the issue, nor is Dan’s motive. You supported a claim of RIC raping the population. You have been called on that and asked to produce a source, you have not done so or withdrawn it and again bluster on. Stop the name calling, produce a source and regain just a little credibility ….:D

Excuse me, no I did not. You cooked that up in your head. I even stated in my following post that I "have no idea whether they did or not". I don't know how clearer one has to be with you, Sir.

Warning other posters to your devious disposition (which has repeatedly been shown on this Board) does not in any way mean I supported any point or claim he was trying to make.

Any luck on that IRA rape link by the way???

pedroeibar1

You just want a fight and have no idea of the subject. Instead of commenting on the out-of-context comments of your mate Ramsey (grossly inaccurate ones BTW) you simply jumped on an opportunity to attack me. :rolleyes:

After I challenged you on the rape issue you now try to shuffle away from your view. I gave you the source for my comments on sexual violence – Clarke’s book is £65, I do not own a copy, the information is in a chapter on violence against the person, go borrow it from your library.

The facts surrounding Soloheadbeg are well known and a few who regard Breen as a demigod want to muddy the water by saying the two constables were going to fire. Face reality. The RIC pair, with rifles slung over their shoulders and suspecting nothing untoward are taken completely by surprise by seven men with arms drawn. Have you any idea of how long it takes to unsling a rifle, pull back the bolt, slide it forward again to chamber a round, aim and fire? (Having remembered to take off the safety!) Five of six seconds minimum, and that is without the handicap of facing seven with automatic weapons. Before those several seconds would be over, just one man with an automatic pistol could shoot both dead within the first couple of seconds. These were two trained and experienced officers, they would have known this, would have been familiar with the sight and killing power of a 1911 Colt automatic and automatic Mauser rifles. They most certainly would not have been so foolish as to try to fight back in the middle of the road.
Breen admitted he wanted ‘an event’ to shock the British. He used this as an opportunity and has said this. He also carried out the action without the sanction of the Dail, with forethought and has admitted this. The family of reen's pal Sean Tracey had no time for Breen and always referred to him as ‘Breen the Murderer’.
My great uncle who was in the Third Tipp Brigade described him as a ‘berserker’ and worse. Breen was a very violent person, and survived as a result. Not everyone who took on Al Capone continued to walk around afterwards. Read Joe Ambrose’s book on Breen, all this and more is in it. Now stop being a troll.

jonniebgood1

This is well off topic folks (both) - If Dan Breen is the subject then someone should start a thread to discuss his legacy or memory. No more here.

Moderator.

Jesus.

Jonny, can I address Pedro's last "contribution"?

jonniebgood1

Jesus. wrote: »

Jonny, can I address Pedro's last "contribution"?

If you wish to further discuss dan breen you should open a thread on him and explain in op what is being discussed. If you have any other comment on the nature of pedros post then pm either him or me.

Moderator.

Jesus.

We'd best leave it so