Elton John & David Furnish verus dolce and gabbana

Shandashey

Have any of you been following the Elton John & David Furnish verus Dolce & Gabbana furore?

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/mar/15/elton-john-boycott-dolce-gabbana-synthetic-ivf-babies-comment

What are your thoughts?

I personally am firmly in the Elton John & David Furnish camp. They are proud parents to two little boys, who will have the most wonderful life, and will be afforded the best opportunities in life from having two loving parents. Sex of either parents irrelevant.

Streetwalker

No

Mint Aero

I'm with Dolce & Gabbana on same-sex families. I'm with Elton on same sex-marriage. I'm against the term "synthetic".

ceadaoin.

He kind of ruined his point when he was spotted with a d&g shopping bag a couple of days later

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/11481149/Sir-Elton-John-pictured-with-Dolce-and-Gabbana-bag-after-calling-for-boycott.html

Dozer Dave

If they are happy its none of our business, life your own life.

Shandashey

Dozer Dave wrote: »

If they are happy its none of our business, life your own life.

Sage advice.

One eyed Jack

Shandashey wrote: »

Have any of you been following the Elton John & David Furnish verus Dolce & Gabbana furore?

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/mar/15/elton-john-boycott-dolce-gabbana-synthetic-ivf-babies-comment

What are your thoughts?

I personally am firmly in the Elton John & David Furnish camp. They are proud parents to two little boys, who will have the most wonderful life, and will be afforded the best opportunities in life from having two loving parents. Sex of either parents irrelevant.

They're a pair of celebrity drama queens whose children are only fashion accessories to them.

I couldn't possibly speculate on the kind of life those children will have apart from the fact that the children of celebrities really don't have the "wonderful life" at all, and "best opportunities" is at least a subjective standard. They'll have opportunities, but they'll have to learn to cope with a great many more pressures upon them than children whose parents are not celebrities.

Shandashey

One eyed Jack wrote: »

They're a pair of celebrity drama queens whose children are only fashion accessories to them.

I couldn't possibly speculate on the kind of life those children will have apart from the fact that the children of celebrities really don't have the "wonderful life" at all, and "best opportunities" is at least a subjective standard. They'll have opportunities, but they'll have to learn to cope with a great many more pressures upon them than children whose parents are not celebrities.

Really? Did Elton dump you or something?

NIMAN

Would suit Elton better if he spoke to his 90yr old mum, so that she doesn't have to hire an impressionist

http://metro.co.uk/2015/03/20/elton-johns-mum-hires-lookalike-of-her-estranged-son-for-90th-birthday-party-5112936/

Shandashey

NIMAN wrote: »

Would suit Elton better if he spoke to his 90yr old mum, so that she doesn't have to hire an impressionist

http://metro.co.uk/2015/03/20/elton-johns-mum-hires-lookalike-of-her-estranged-son-for-90th-birthday-party-5112936/

She called his husband "that thing"

If someone referred to my husband as "that thing" I would probably have a problem with them too. He still supports her financially.

NIMAN

I couldn't give a toss what she called him. Its his mother, blood and water and all.
She is 90 ffs, she is from a different era with different mindset.

Time Elton caught himself on.

One eyed Jack

Shandashey wrote: »

Really? Did Elton dump you or something?

No? I simply don't hold celebrities in high esteem when they use children as fashion accessories, therefore I don't see Elton John and David Furnish as any kind of role models for parents. They are, like I said, a pair of drama queens, playing their personal lives out on social media and in the spotlight. I'd say the same of Michael Jackson or the Kardashians btw or anyone else I considered was an unfit role model for their children.

My only concern here would be the children being mixed up in all that crap, I couldn't care less about the parents in this case or their latest celebrity dramas.

ceadaoin.

NIMAN wrote: »

Would suit Elton better if he spoke to his 90yr old mum, so that she doesn't have to hire an impressionist

http://metro.co.uk/2015/03/20/elton-johns-mum-hires-lookalike-of-her-estranged-son-for-90th-birthday-party-5112936/

She hired an impressionist of her son and then made sure everyone knew about it and how hard done by she is. Can certainly see where Elton gets his drama queen tendencies from :pac:

suicide_circus

Dont be afraid to use your nails, boys!

keeponhurling

D&G are perfectly entitled to their opinion though

I wouldn't go boycotting them over it

( I have never bought anything there in the first place though)

drunkmonkey

Any objections to them making there own child with both their genes, http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/babies-same-sex-couples-now-possible-following-stem-cell-breakthrough-1489081 they have the money and science is catching up with them. Even the most liberal here must question the consequences when we play with the gene pool like that.

Shandashey

One eyed Jack wrote: »

No? I simply don't hold celebrities in high esteem when they use children as fashion accessories, therefore I don't see Elton John and David Furnish as any kind of role models for parents. They are, like I said, a pair of drama queens, playing their personal lives out on social media and in the spotlight. I'd say the same of Michael Jackson or the Kardashians btw or anyone else I considered was an unfit role model for their children.

My only concern here would be the children being mixed up in all that crap, I couldn't care less about the parents in this case or their latest celebrity dramas.

Why have you decided these children are fashion accessories?

Shandashey

NIMAN wrote: »

I couldn't give a toss what she called him. Its his mother, blood and water and all.
She is 90 ffs, she is from a different era with different mindset.

Time Elton caught himself on.

He still supports her financially. She insulted his partner. I do believe both sides are probably at fault however. Just because she is 90, does not give her a free pass in my opinion.

Desolation Of Smug

Shandashey wrote: »

He still supports her financially. She insulted his partner. I do believe both sides are probably at fault however. Just because she is 90, does not give her a free pass in my opinion.

Gets her a bus pass though..

also I am boycotting D&G on financial grounds...I can't afford it..

One eyed Jack

Shandashey wrote: »

Why have you decided these children are fashion accessories?

I haven't decided that these children are fashion accessories. I said that celebrities (in this case a pair of over the hill drama queens) treat these children like fashion accessories. They don't do the perception of same-sex marriage, nor parenting, any favours IMO.

I would have suggested they get a dog they can carry in a purse, but that would be considered animal cruelty, so last century anyway, wouldn't leave a teddy bear in their care tbh.

Shandashey

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I haven't decided that these children are fashion accessories. I said that celebrities (in this case a pair of over the hill drama queens) treat these children like fashion accessories. They don't do the perception of same-sex marriage, nor parenting, any favours IMO.

I would have suggested they get a dog they can carry in a purse, but that would be considered animal cruelty, so last century anyway, wouldn't leave a teddy bear in their care tbh.

Wow. What has happened to you in your life to make assumptions like that.

One eyed Jack

Shandashey wrote: »

Wow. What has happened to you in your life to make assumptions like that.

Nothing, honestly

No seriously though, I just find the behaviour of their parents embarrassing carry on for grown adults who are supposed to be role models for their children. I would have said the same had it been any other celebrity couple in their position who behave the way they do.

They're like thrush really, very irritating the way they go on, and their children have to witness their behaviour and are exposed to that environment and that attitude. There are many celebrities who are parents who don't expose their children to the same level of drama that these two do.

Shandashey

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Nothing, honestly

No seriously though, I just find the behaviour of their parents embarrassing carry on for grown adults who are supposed to be role models for their children. I would have said the same had it been any other celebrity couple in their position who behave the way they do.

They're like thrush really, very irritating the way they go on, and their children have to witness their behaviour and are exposed to that environment and that attitude. There are many celebrities who are parents who don't expose their children to the same level of drama that these two do.

I'm sorry. How do you know what environment and attitude those two boys are exposed to? Are you helping raise them?

Kiwi in IE

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I haven't decided that these children are fashion accessories. I said that celebrities (in this case a pair of over the hill drama queens) treat these children like fashion accessories. They don't do the perception of same-sex marriage, nor parenting, any favours IMO.

I would have suggested they get a dog they can carry in a purse, but that would be considered animal cruelty, so last century anyway, wouldn't leave a teddy bear in their care tbh.

That's pretty harsh and judgemental. What are you basing the 'treated like fashion accessories' on? The fact they appear in the media? When you are chased about by paparazzi every time you leave your house, the only solution would be for the children not to ever leave the house. Hardly ideal either. They can't win. Yes they have chosen careers where they are in the limelight and those are the consequences, but to say that the children of all celebrities, or the children of a particular celebrity couple whose private life you know nothing about, are treated as fashion accessories is unfair in my opinion.

As for D&G, of course they are entitled to their opinions. And if they want to tie their political opinions in with their business, then they better be prepared for the potential consequences of lost business of those who are opposed to their opinions. If they express political opinions that are very offensive and unpalatable to large numbers of people, it is highly likely that they will suffer financial loss because of it. They are asute businessmen and I am certain they were aware of the consequences of such comments prior to making them.

One eyed Jack

Shandashey wrote: »

I'm sorry. How do you know what environment and attitude those two boys are exposed to? Are you helping raise them?

Are you? From your opening post you seem to be very familiar with the environment and attitude these children are exposed to -

Shandashey wrote: »

They are proud parents to two little boys, who will have the most wonderful life, and will be afforded the best opportunities in life from having two loving parents. Sex of either parents irrelevant.

I suppose that's where our perspective differs.

Shandashey

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Are you? From your opening post you seem to be very familiar with the environment and attitude these children are exposed to -





I suppose that's where our perspective differs.

I certainly would not judge any parent on the way they raise their kids. Perspective does not come into this.

crockholm

I don't Think I would be taking any parenting tips from 2 men with a combined age of 120 years old on the raising of a 5 and 2 year old,I know everyone is supposed to be really groovy and supercool about 2 gay dads,but ffs a 68 and 52 year old men looking after kids? That really isn't putting the kids first is it?

One eyed Jack

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

That's pretty harsh and judgemental. What are you basing the 'treated like fashion accessories' on? The fact they appear in the media? When you are chased about by paparazzi every time you leave your house, the only solution would be for the children not to ever leave the house. Hardly ideal either. They can't win. Yes they have chosen careers where they are in the limelight and those are the consequences, but to say that the children of all celebrities, or the children of a particular celebrity couple whose private life you know nothing about, are treated as fashion accessories is unfair in my opinion.

They post every minute of their private and personal lives on social media though? The paps don't have to chase them any more when they can just look up instagram, twitter, etc.

I know all too well it's very judgemental, but that's simply my opinion based on what I've seen of the parents behaviour. I couldn't care less about their gender or their sexuality, I would judge any other celebrity parents the same way if they behaved like these two and I gave examples earlier, but we weren't talking about those parents.

If their gender or their sexuality actually is irrelevant, then be clear that it's irrelevant and don't allow it to make prejudiced assumptions that they're the "nuclear family 2.0". They're simply terrible parents IMO, and while they of course are entitled to a family like anyone else, they should not be immune from criticism of their celebrity lifestyle that they are exposing their children to. Like I said, there are many other celebrity parents have children and you never hear a word about it.

As for D&G, of course they are entitled to their opinions. And if they want to tie their political opinions in with their business, then they better be prepared for the potential consequences of lost business of those who are opposed to their opinions. If they express political opinions that are very offensive and unpalatable to large numbers of people, it is highly likely that they will suffer financial loss because of it. They are asute businessmen and I am certain they were aware of the consequences of such comments prior to making them.

Care less about D&G tbh, if it wasn't them, it'd merely be someone else upsetting the divas and they'd be all over another social media storm and their children would still be exposed to it. Honestly, for their age, you'd imagine the pair of them would just grow the hell up.

Shandashey

crockholm wrote: »

I don't Think I would be taking any parenting tips from 2 men with a combined age of 120 years old on the raising of a 5 and 2 year old,I know everyone is supposed to be really groovy and supercool about 2 gay dads,but ffs a 68 and 52 year old men looking after kids? That really isn't putting the kids first is it?

Would you have preferred these boys to be born into lone parent families, on the lone parent allowance, struggling to get by? Or to a heroin addict? Alcoholic parents? Abusive situations? Kids every day are brought into this world in horrible situations. These kids were wanted, and are very much loved. They'll be a lot better off than countless other children.

crockholm

Shandashey wrote: »

Would you have preferred these boys to be born into lone parent families, on the lone parent allowance, struggling to get by? Or to a heroin addict? Alcoholic parents? Abusive situations? Kids every day are brought into this world in horrible situations. These kids were wanted, and are very much loved. They'll be a lot better off than countless other children.

I love the way the the only choices are adopted by gay pensioners or heroin addicts,there is just no possibility of some semblance of normality.

Plus,given that the kids were born via a surrogate,does that not make your arguement null and void.

Shandashey

crockholm wrote: »

I love the way the the only choices are adopted by gay pensioners or heroin addicts,there is just no possibility of some semblance of normality.

Plus,given that the kids were born via a surrogate,does that not make your arguement null and void.

Please tell me what your semblance of normality is

One eyed Jack

Shandashey wrote: »

I certainly would not judge any parent on the way they raise their kids.

I would, I do it instinctively, they're either good parents, or they're not, and they need to be told to cop the hell on. Celebrities live in a completely different reality though from your average parents, so I judge them by a different standard again.

You can't possibly suggest that these two are representative of an average family when they are anything but.

Perspective does not come into this.

Of course perspective comes into it, otherwise how would you or I or anyone else be able to offer an opinion? From your perspective Elton and David are a loving couple and they're fantastic parents to their two children and can provide for them a wonderful life with unlimited opportunities.

My perspective differs quite a bit from that. I'd be reluctant to tempt fate as I know from experience that children don't necessarily turn out like their parents, and I can only hope that's true for these children that they forge their own path in life and indeed don't turn out like their parents.

Kiwi in IE

Everyone is entitled to express their opinions publicly if they wish, but what people are not entitled to, is protection or exemption from the social/financial sanctions that other individuals who find those opinions abhorrent/offensive may place on them as a consequence if they choose to do so.

crockholm

Shandashey wrote: »

Please tell me what your semblance of normality is

A mother and father,aged between 25-40 for a married couple with 2 kids.


Now you explain why you brought in adopted kids into the equation when both of theirs were born by surrogates?
Why did you mention Heroin adicts and alcoholics like those are the only choices?

Do you consider it wise to become a first time parent at 63 and second time parent at 66?

Electric Boobs

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to express their opinions publicly if they wish, but what people are not entitled to, is protection or exemption from the social/financial sanctions that other individuals who find those opinions abhorrent/offensive may place on them as a consequence if they choose to do so.

Yeah, I really liked that 'Sweat it Out' song from his 1992 album, The One. There's a completely different feel to it

Dangerous Man

I'm going back to lurk on the IRA versus ISIS thread. This is ridiculous.

Guy:Incognito

How do you find a thread like this after a month and what the hell were you searching for to get there?

Electric Boobs

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

How do you find a thread like this after a month and what the hell were you searching for to get there?

Maybe because it was in my subscriptions

AlphaRed

Shandashey wrote: »

Have any of you been following the Elton John & David Furnish verus Dolce & Gabbana furore?

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/mar/15/elton-john-boycott-dolce-gabbana-synthetic-ivf-babies-comment

What are your thoughts?

I personally am firmly in the Elton John & David Furnish camp. They are proud parents to two little boys, who will have the most wonderful life, and will be afforded the best opportunities in life from having two loving parents. Sex of either parents irrelevant.

Bill Maher had something funny to say about it. Oh and I support them too (JUST SO MY THREAD DOESN'T GET LOCKED LOL)

DEFTLEFTHAND

Not a Bill Maher fan but that was actually pretty funny.