Salary question

needhelpguy

Hi all,

I'm not entirely sure where to post this I though this might be the best forum. I work as an application support analyst working mostly with Oracle and a few other niche applications. I have been getting more involved in Oracle Apex development and I've been asked to manage support (and I suspect, additional development) of a custom web app that was created by a contractor recently, who is leaving (mostly javascript/html linked to pl/sql procedures).

I have been told that the company is reducing it's reliance on contractors and they want me to effectively become an apex developer as well as manage this new app ontop of my support role. I've no problem with this at all as I find it very interesting and I want to move into development full time eventually.

However I'm wondering about salary - I'm currently on 31k with no benefits other than a company pension scheme. I've worked for the company for 4 years but only started in the IT dept last year. I finally got a full time contract a few weeks ago but wasn't offered any increase. I asked about it but was denied, and told to ask again next year.

I'm just wondering is this a good salary for what I do? Some of the other guys on the team are astounded I wasn't offered an increase, and to be honest, I'm a bit disappointed myself. Maybe I'm wrong though, and this is a good wage for application support with some development?

The only thing that bothers me is that they will be getting rid of the Apex developers they have already (who are being paid €350-450 daily rate) and expecting me to effectively take over. They already think I'm good enough since they kept me on full time, so is it reasonable to expect a slight increase because of this? I am studying an IT degree part time also, which is expensive, and they also denied my request for funding assistance for that - despite other people getting it.

Do you think it's reasonable to expect a slight increase in wage, or am I expecting too much?

srsly78

Do you have another job lined up that will pay more? If not then you don't have much to bargain with. Once you have worked with this stuff for a while and gained some experience, you can then jump ship and sell yourself for big money to someone else. This is when you can try to negotiate a pay rise, but in IT it often pays more to jump hop.

Manach

As srsly78 said. If salary is an issue (and it is a reasonable one) then be prepared to move to a company that will pay the market rates. Offhand both brightwater and morgan mckinley do reasonable accuracte salary surveys so this can be used as a baseline.

Senna

1. Line up another job, anything at all.
2. Tell current employer, you're leaving unless they match the other jobs wages (white lie here).
3. Sweat.

I've done this once before but I knew I was in a good bargaining position and the company wanted me. If your company is cutting back on contractors because you can do the work, I think they'll agree.
Of course you do have to be ready to walk if they don't.

matrim

Senna wrote: »

1. Line up another job, anything at all.
2. Tell current employer, you're leaving unless they match the other jobs wages (white lie here).
3. Sweat.

I've done this once before but I knew I was in a good bargaining position and the company wanted me. If your company is cutting back on contractors because you can do the work, I think they'll agree.
Of course you do have to be ready to walk if they don't.

If you have to do this to get a pay rise, then it's probably better to just take the new job and hope that the new company has more respect for their employees.

bpmurray

I think your best move would be to point out that since they're dumping the contractors, they need someone who knows what (s)he's doing so they really do need to shell out for the education. Once you have your IT degree in your pocket, you'll be in a much stronger position, both from a bargaining position and to find something better.

Wabbit Ears

Move job. It really is that simple. negotiate better conditions from teh offset. What you start on really matters as, no matter where you work, from there on in its always small increments, If any unless you are actually being promoted.

Also, The truth is they will hire someone to replace you and pay them more than what you were asking for and probably more than you are getting in the new company. HR in IT (Ive worked in IT my whole adult life, dunno if its the same elsewhere) makes no sense whatsoever.

Tar.Aldarion

You seem to have exhausted your options at your work, you'll probably have to look elsewhere as they are not being accommodating. Seems low after your experience and responsibilities.

needhelpguy

Thanks for the replies. I am a bit surprised to be honest. I'll only be in the role a year this summer so maybe that is also a factor? Without saying too much they are a multinational in Dublin CC...and are renowned for short sighted decidions. Wabbit Ears is absolutely right - if I leave they will only end up finding someone else (if they can find anyone at all with this type of experience) and paying them a lot more than they are paying me now.

I have been looking around for a new position, but it might be better to wait another year or so and increase my level of experience? Any views on this? I don't think Senna your scenario will work at this place, they wouldn't match salary (but then end up paying more for a replacement anyway). From speaking to a few people I seem to be the lowest paid staff member apart after the grads.

Wabbit Ears

People move around in IT all the time, no point in waiting on more experience. Just apply to other places and see what happens.

Atomic Pineapple

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

People move around in IT all the time, no point in waiting on more experience. Just apply to other places and see what happens.

This, get your CV updated and have a look at jobs that might interest you in terms of what you are looking to do in your career and apply for them while working away as normal in your current position, it'll give you a clearer picture of whether you need more experience or can get paid what your worth in another company when you get some interviews in.

The Corinthian

First thing I'd do is check what the going rate is for Oracle Apex developers, both contract and full-time. I'm not familiar with Oracle Apex or it's market footprint, but it's a niche area so it's important to see if there's work in it out there, before committing to it.

If it's a good market to get into, then stick it out for another six months to a year, as long as you're getting the relevant experience. No later than six months from now, send out feelers to see what the job market is like for Apex development. Ideally, get a job offer before going to your higher up and seek that raise. If refused, jump ship and take the next half decent offer you get (which will almost certainly pay more).

Don't leave now. You're in IT less than a year, only full-time recently and I suspect you're still inexperienced in development. Typically, you'll want to get about two years development experience in your first job, before moving on.

As has been mooted, more than once here, moving jobs is all too often the best way to get a raise in IT in Ireland. You potentially have an opportunity to skill up and gain experience and increase your worth by a good figure, if you look on this as an opportunity.

Another tactic you might use is just before you have a review or meeting regarding your salary, take a morning off to go to the 'dentist'. Then come in wearing a suit. That should send the message nicely.

needhelpguy

Food for thought here. I might wait until the year end, learn as much as I can and then dust off the CV. The Corinthian - Oracle Apex is very niche indeed and there are very few companies here that use it, it seems. More choice in the UK, but that's obviously out of the question at the moment. I would ideally like to move into a role with Java but no one will touch me without commercial experience. Pure PL/SQL jobs seem plentiful, and that's maybe a road I will go down. Thanks for the replies.

stevenmu

needhelpguy wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. I am a bit surprised to be honest. I'll only be in the role a year this summer so maybe that is also a factor? Without saying too much they are a multinational in Dublin CC...and are renowned for short sighted decidions. Wabbit Ears is absolutely right - if I leave they will only end up finding someone else (if they can find anyone at all with this type of experience) and paying them a lot more than they are paying me now.

I have been looking around for a new position, but it might be better to wait another year or so and increase my level of experience? Any views on this? I don't think Senna your scenario will work at this place, they wouldn't match salary (but then end up paying more for a replacement anyway). From speaking to a few people I seem to be the lowest paid staff member apart after the grads.

A lot of companies will generally only consider pay increases on an annual basis, either based on your joining date or on their annual review cycle, so that's worth keeping in mind. It would be rare to get a pay increase within a year of joining.

Also, in my experience, an increase in role/responsibilities doesn't usually command an immediate pay increase. The most effective tactic is usually to wait 3-6 months to prove that you can excel at the new role, then look for an increase using the past 3-6 months as proof that you are delivering more value to the company.