Nissan Leaf realistic cost of fuel?

CiniO

Obviously - electric fuel.
Assuming car would be used everyday to drive 40km , some days would be 80km. Very seldom more than that.

What would be the average electricity consumption (in kWh) to charge it every night.
Cost could differ depending if you have one tarrif, or night/day tarrif for electricty, that's why I ask in kWh...

Crumbs868

http://touch.boards.ie/forum/1634

Dexter1979

CiniO wrote: »

What would be the average electricity consumption (in kWh) to charge it every night.
Cost could differ depending if you have one tarrif, or night/day tarrif for electricty, that's why I ask in kWh...

Depends on weather, geography, traffic, driving style and roads.

I would suspect 80km on a bad day at motorway speeds would drain the battery completely.

A full charge at home is 24kWh. That is your worse case. So about 125kWh in a week. You do the math.

homer911

In a Leaf you could do 100 Km with 15-17Kwh

wotswattage

https://www.esb.ie/electric-cars/electric-car-driving/electric-car-benefits.jsp

^A rough calculator on the ESB site

CiniO

CiniO wrote: »

Obviously - electric fuel.
Assuming car would be used everyday to drive 40km , some days would be 80km. Very seldom more than that.

What would be the average electricity consumption (in kWh) to charge it every night.
Cost could differ depending if you have one tarrif, or night/day tarrif for electricty, that's why I ask in kWh...

Driving at 100-110 Kph with some 120-130 stints I average 18 kwh/100 Kms, over the course of a week or so. I drive harder than I did in the Prius tbh because I don't have to worry about the cost of petrol. Once I have the range I drive as normal, I'm certainly not the slowest car on the road.

It's hard to calculate the cost of the leccy, the Leaf has 21 Kwh usable out of 24 so if I need 18 Kwh to drive 100 Kms driving reasonably fast then that would cost me € 1.62 however because the charger is about 80% efficient I need roughly 20% more leccy or 21.6 Kwh from the mains to do 100 Kms costing about €1.94.

The Euro and non British leafs dash is in Kms and therefore much harder to calculate the amount of range to expect exactly. 18 kwh/100 kms is ridiculous, the North American and non KM leafs give you your consumption in Miles/Kwh so I know exactly if I average 3.5 miles /Kwh I will get 73.5 miles range to empty.

But god only knows why they decide to give kms/100 kms it's useless. Kms / Kwh would be far more useful. I did change the readout to miles but it doesn;t change the dash reading and the energy monitors bar graph is hard to read exactly but my efficiency would be in or around 3.5 miles/kwh.

If I get to work and back to Nass qc which is 88.5 Kms and have 25% battery remaining then I will get about 5.25 Kwh remaining out of about 21.

Roughly I need about 25 kwh to make 85 miles a day. (136 Kms) Or roughly 30 kwh form the mains. That would cost me € 2.70 on night rate.

To drive 40 Kms at my efficiency , I.E not driving too easy you should need 7.2 Kwh + 20% (20% is what the charger consumes extra) = 8.6 kwh costing .77 Cent on night rate leccy or 1.54 on day rate. Might nit be worth installing the night meter , though the rental is only 50 Euro's extra a year. So it would pay back quick enough + you can use the immersion in summer at night and washing machine, dryer etc.

IF you do a lot of town driving then you might get away with a lot less leccy than me costing less but I get about 10-14 kwh form the fast charger for free this is more than I need, I get home with about 25% remaining. I don;t like to get home with a very low battery every day. I usually charge from 25%-60-65%.

cros13

I drove 4500km in November 2014 in a mk.2 Leaf for around €30 ex VAT on to my electricity bill.

Night rate electricity (7c to 8c per kWh) is the way to go. You car will have a timer and charge during the cheap hours.

My dad is currently commuting ~60km each way in his Leaf. Cost is 91c per day.

cros13

Dexter1979 wrote: »

A full charge at home is 24kWh. That is your worse case. So about 125kWh in a week. You do the math.

Well only 22kWh of the battery is usable and usually you wouldn't be coming home on a fully empty battery.

Dexter1979

cros13 wrote: »

Well only 22kWh of the battery is usable and usually you wouldn't be coming home on a fully empty battery.

But the 24kWh includes the added 20% for efficiency and I did say "worse case".

21 Kwh are usable , perhaps in warmer weather that might go up, in fact it should.

Dexter what do you mean when you say "20% for efficiency" ?

Dexter1979

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Dexter what do you mean when you say "20% for efficiency" ?

The AC charger is not 100% efficient. Maybe more than 80% but I just used 24kWh for a rough, worse case scenario.

You won't use more than 24kWh for a empty to 100% charge.

I don't have a Leaf but have been told it uses 24kWh for a full charge.

Dexter1979

Dexter1979 wrote: »

The AC charger is not 100% efficient. Maybe more than 80% but I just used 24kWh for a rough, worse case scenario.

You won't use more than 24kWh for a empty to 100% charge.

I don't have a Leaf but have been told it uses 24kWh for a full charge.

When I charge up leaf spy tells me I've in or around 21 kwh available add 20% for charger inefficiency and that becomes 25.2 Kwh but that's from pushing it to the charge point. It would be interesting to know the actual efficiency of the charger in the leaf.

mr.dunkey

You can run your LEAF for zero cost if you want,with public charging. I think someone roughly calculated its 1/10th of the cost of average ICE

mr.dunkey

mr.dunkey wrote: »

You can run your LEAF for zero cost if you want,with public charging. I think someone roughly calculated its 1/10th of the cost of average ICE

Yeah people do this already tying up valuable charging resources that other people actually need. I've got caught a good few times at Naas QC because people plug in for over an hour because they think they are entitled while they shop, just for free leccy and all I need is about 10 mins to get me home.

Most of these people that come back tell me they only live down the road and I tell them to use their own home charge point that I'm not the only one who actually needs to use the charge point, this is why IMO free fast charger use is simply unacceptable !!!

It's cheap to charge at home at night rate, that's just been greedy !!!!!

Quote from the ESB on their Ecars FB page.

"We would ask all EV drivers not to hog fast chargers as they are meant to be used for about 30 minutes and then freed up for the next driver."

I have also suggested to the ESB that the charger be programmed to prevent a charge beyond 80% because it takes longer from 80-100% than 0-80%.

They need slow charge points if people want to plug in while they shop like at city west and Tallaght. Fast chargers should be located in places people won't want to stay for long.

If it costs twice the price than to charge at home it might also make people think twice also !

mr.dunkey

MadLad This attitude of make the FCPs points free for people who need them to commute I can agree, but your comment states that if you live close to a FCP dont be charging at a FCP. I live close to a FCP and charge there because its fast . Not everyone wants to wait 6- 8 hours at home before they can do another trip. If a FCP is at Tesco expect tesco shoppers to use it,it is ideal for 30-40 shopping. It does take 45 minutes in winter to get 80%.
You choose to buy an EV knowing you cant do a work commute without stopping.
Everyone who owns an EV is entitled to use FCPs.
Im sure keep telling locals to FCP go home and charge and someone will not take kindly to it, everyone is entitled to a charge.

mr.dunkey

mr.dunkey wrote: »

MadLad This attitude of make the FCPs points free for people who need them to commute I can agree, but your comment states that if you live close to a FCP dont be charging at a FCP.

I've no problem with anyone using the qc network if they don't need it for free electricity provided they don't abandon their cars and let those who can't complete their journey to use them.

I use the Carlow QC but I stay in the car while I top up on free electricity and if someone comes along I let them charge because I live 10 kms from the Qc and mostly don't need it.

The QC points are there for people who need them, they are not there for locals to grab some free leccy while they shop when they can otherwise charge at home.

mr.dunkey wrote: »

I live close to a FCP and charge there because its fast . Not everyone wants to wait 6- 8 hours at home before they can do another trip. If a FCP is at Tesco expect tesco shoppers to use it,it is ideal for 30-40 shopping. It does take 45 minutes in winter to get 80%.

"not everyone wants to wait 6-8 hrs to charge" ? and you talk about me who bought an ev knowing I can't make it home without a "10 min charge." !!!!

Why would you want an 80% charge if you don't need it ? just because you won't plug in at home because there is a free charge point close by ?

mr.dunkey wrote: »

You choose to buy an EV knowing you cant do a work commute without stopping.

Says the man who can't wait 6-8 hrs to charge from his home charge point. !!!
This is why the charge points are there, to allow someone continue their destination, they are not there for people to use if they don't need them.

mr.dunkey wrote: »

Everyone who owns an EV is entitled to use FCPs.
Im sure keep telling locals to FCP go home and charge and someone will not take kindly to it, everyone is entitled to a charge.

Everyone is entitled to charge but you're not entitled to hog a charge point, that is plug in and disappear for an hour or so. Even the ESB have made this clear.

No one has said anything to me yet when I suggest charging at their own charge point because they know well they are there just for free electricity !

There was one gentleman , the man with the plug in outlander, he told me to give him 10 mins and plug him out and plug him back in when I'm finished. He knew all I needed was 10 mins. So I was grateful that he suggested this so I plugged him back in when I was finished because he knew I couldn't make it home without a charge.

mr.dunkey

Ok you live close to a FCP, if they're was something you had to do at that FCP for 20-30 mins, would you not top up.

I don't want to wait 6-8 hrs to charge, so what. If Im stuck Ive an ICE. I don't rely on it to commute and have a Flap when blocked. I don't think an EV would be for me if I had to rely on Chargers,as your not guaranteed one. Ideally they FCPs should be out of the way to deter people from wandering from them so commuters like yourself can use them. But if there at supermarkets etc expect shoppers to use them.

Everyone is entitled to charge but as the community grows they're will be inconsiderate people who park in disabled bays, will park in EV spots even if they don't need a charge.You will never change this.

Maybe then yes paying for your EV charging might free up the system but I cant see much investment happening for a long time.

mr.dunkey

mr.dunkey wrote: »

Ok you live close to a FCP, if they're was something you had to do at that FCP for 20-30 mins, would you not top up.

Yes I do this sometimes in Carlow, however I do not leave the Leaf, I sit in the car and get 10-15 mins worth of free leccy when I'm not in a rush and just surf the web. I absolutely do (NOT) leave in case someone arrives who needs it. I have on a few occasions only got to charge 5 mins when someone pulled up and I stopped and let them charge straight away, I know what it's like to have to wait when I have to get home after a 12 hr shift. It's really very unfair and selfish for people just to start charging and leave the car when they can charge at home. When someone just shrugs their shoulders at me when I suggest not tying up a valuable fast charger it really annoys me, I just wouldn't do it to anyone. They know full well they are just miserable mean gits looking for something free that costs very little to begin with !

mr.dunkey wrote: »

I don't want to wait 6-8 hrs to charge, so what. If Im stuck Ive an ICE. I don't rely on it to commute and have a Flap when blocked. I don't think an EV would be for me if I had to rely on Chargers,as your not guaranteed one. Ideally they FCPs should be out of the way to deter people from wandering from them so commuters like yourself can use them. But if there at supermarkets etc expect shoppers to use them.

The tesco QC is in a very bad location, this is where the normal 22 KW AC points should be so people can still plug in and feel good that they're getting something for free and TBH, with the 6.6 Kw charger getting 25% back in an hour does make a big difference !

I have told the ESB the fast chargers should be where people won't want to hang around. But they'll tell you te chargers are located where they are allowed and where there is available power. I don;t believe for one minute the garages along the N7 refused to allow fast chargers on site !

The ESB have no plans for a fast chargers in the New garage on the M9 just after Kilcullen, this would be perfect for a lot of people. Driving to the Naas QC at peak times is just a nightmare, what were the ESB thinking ?

They have a new fast charger at the Blanch shopping center ? what a waste, again no doubt always taken up by (local) shoppers. You need standard 22 Kw points like in the Square in Tallaght and City west.

mr.dunkey wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to charge but as the community grows they're will be inconsiderate people who park in disabled bays, will park in EV spots even if they don't need a charge.You will never change this.

Using an fast charger because you can and are entitled to is a waste of resources and selfish. The only way to stop ICE cars blocking charge points is to clamp but a lot of them are on private property. I do know the security at Naas run people who park in the Nass QC bays.

mr.dunkey wrote: »

Maybe then yes paying for your EV charging might free up the system but I cant see much investment happening for a long time.

You'd be surprised how quickly people will decide not to use the fast chargers if it costs money if it's cheaper to charge at home on night rate leccy.

The ESB are to reveal their 2015 charger roll out soon. Hopefully they'll install the charge points where it makes sense and not just convenient for the ESB !

Benny_Cake

Deleted User wrote: »

The tesco QC is in a very bad location, this is where the normal 22 KW AC points should be so people can still plug in and feel good that they're getting something for free and TBH, with the 6.6 Kw charger getting 25% back in an hour does make a big difference !

I have told the ESB the fast chargers should be where people won't want to hang around. But they'll tell you te chargers are located where they are allowed and where there is available power. I don;t believe for one minute the garages along the N7 refused to allow fast chargers on site !

The ESB have no plans for a fast chargers in the New garage on the M9 just after Kilcullen, this would be perfect for a lot of people. Driving to the Naas QC at peak times is just a nightmare, what were the ESB thinking ?

The Esso station on the N7 between Kill and Johnstown would be perfect for a fast charger. It's right on the road, there is very little to detain people unnecessarily and you can't walk off the site.

It'll be interesting to see what locations are planned for this year.

Benny_Cake

Benny_Cake wrote: »

The Esso station on the N7 between Kill and Johnstown would be perfect for a fast charger. It's right on the road, there is very little to detain people unnecessarily and you can't walk off the site.

I t would have been far better than the Tesco location which is a horrid place to try get to in peak traffic, they must not have thought this location through properly.

Benny_Cake wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see what locations are planned for this year.

Indeed, I would imaging they will install 2 chargers total for the busiest locations. I just hope they don;t plan further fast chargers in shopping centers.

Dexter1979

Deleted User wrote: »

I just hope they don;t plan further fast chargers in shopping centers.

That would depend on permission, supply, permits, etc.. ESB don't control everything. In order to provide national coverage they do have to jump through a lot of hoops.. And sadly not a lot of service areas in Ireland which would be the most obvious place for a FCP..

Dexter1979

Dexter1979 wrote: »

That would depend on permission, supply, permits, etc.. ESB don't control everything. In order to provide national coverage they do have to jump through a lot of hoops.. And sadly not a lot of service areas in Ireland which would be the most obvious place for a FCP..

I know of the difficulty finding suitable sites but I don't believe it's as difficult as they make out.

Perhaps one of the problems with the N7 is that there is only one small garage on the North lane and several on the South lane.

The Blanch center and the Tesco in Naas are very unsuitable locations for a fast charger, in these places they need the slow chargers so people can still plug in and feel good about getting free electricity.

I think if there were slow chargers on site there that people would still use the fast charger while they shop in order to get the maximum amount of free electricity possible.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

I know of the difficulty finding suitable sites but I don't believe it's as difficult as they make out.

Perhaps one of the problems with the N7 is that there is only one small garage on the North lane and several on the South lane.

The Blanch center and the Tesco in Naas are very unsuitable locations for a fast charger, in these places they need the slow chargers so people can still plug in and feel good about getting free electricity.

I think if there were slow chargers on site there that people would still use the fast charger while they shop in order to get the maximum amount of free electricity possible.

AFAIK the 22kW rollout has stopped to allow more funding for the Rapid network.
I spoke to liffey valley management and they are in discussions with eCars at the moment for what could be another multi-standard RCP on the N4.

At least it's closer to the road than monread

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

AFAIK the 22kW rollout has stopped to allow more funding for the Rapid network.
I spoke to liffey valley management and they are in discussions with eCars at the moment for what could be another multi-standard RCP on the N4.

At least it's closer to the road than monread

The more fast chargers the better, but they need to start adding a 2nd fast charger to existing sites and start charging for electricity.

A 80-85% Max charge cut off would also be welcome where the charge point will not allow a charge beyond this even if you disconnect and reconnect !

homer911

Deleted User wrote: »

The more fast chargers the better, but they need to start adding a 2nd fast charger to existing sites and start charging for electricity.

A 80-85% Max charge cut off would also be welcome where the charge point will not allow a charge beyond this even if you disconnect and reconnect !

Absolutely agree, surely this could be done with a simple software update?

homer911

homer911 wrote: »

Absolutely agree, surely this could be done with a simple software update?

Yes I'm sure a software upgrade could so this no problem.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

The more fast chargers the better, but they need to start adding a 2nd fast charger to existing sites and start charging for electricity.

I heard a rumor that ESB might not implement charging until EVs hit 10% of new car sales.

I certainly hope that if they do bring in charging sooner that it will only be for ChaDeMo vehicles, 'cause for the rest of us the charging network is nowhere close to reliable.

zerohero2015

FCPs on motorway spots, sick of people vanishing at FCPs and im only new to this ..ahhh hope it gets easier

If someone needs the charge then I accept waiting, but not when someone's taking the mick and using the chargers as their own.

On the motorway I would expect someone to go for bite to eat while the car charges and they're more likely to want all 80% or more.

In a shopping centre they're more likely to be getting free power while they shop and more likely to be local.

If someone is at a Motorway Charger then I doubt they're local.

The ESE are planning another roll out of chargers and this is to be announced in May, they'll most likely install a 2nd fast charger on the busier sites. (hopefully)

The next Gen of electrics will be able to cover greater distances which should greatly relieve the burden on the fast charge network.