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Broken laptop

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  • 03-04-2015 11:05pm
    #1
    podger456
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭


    Facing a €300 bill for a MBP which was a few months outside warranty when the hard disc failed. Guy in the shop said it was a very common fault with them, but neither them nor apple will cover the repair cost as the warranty is up, but I think it's unreasonable to have to pay €300 every two years for a hd, on top of €1400 to buy in the first place. Can I just proceed to the SCC with apple, or would it have to be the shop? Would prefer if I can take it up directly with apple as it is their product, but if anyone could clarify I would be grateful.
    Thanks


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    #2
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    If you're taking anyone to the SCC it can only be the seller, that's who you have a contract with. The warranty has expired so Apple no longer have any obligation to you and you have no case against them. Just because the hard drive (SSD?) failed in the first 2 years does not mean a replacement drive will also fail every 2 years so that would be a weak claim to make.


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    #3
    podger456
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭podger456


    Yeah I hope it won't happen every two years, just in my discussions with the shop and apple so far the suggestion is that it's just wear and tear and not unreasonable. They're making this sound normal!
    Anyway thanks for the response, the shop it is so.


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    #4
    podger456
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭podger456


    It's not an SSD, btw, but that's what's going back into it.


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    #5
    rock22
    Registered Users Posts: 1,547 ✭✭✭rock22


    Your remedy is via consumer legislation and not Apples warranty. And as pointed out, your contract is with the shop. Put complaint in writing and give a couple weeks for any remedy. Otherwise take to SCC.


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    #6
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,211 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    podger456 wrote: »
    Yeah I hope it won't happen every two years, just in my discussions with the shop and apple so far the suggestion is that it's just wear and tear and not unreasonable. They're making this sound normal!
    Anyway thanks for the response, the shop it is so.

    Well it is a mechanical device so it is subject to wear and tear. Hard drives have a MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure) so they are expected to wear out. 2 years seems low but it does depend on how much the laptop was used. If it was all day, every day, then obviously it will fail earlier. The chances are that if you take this to SCC then the shop probably wont contest it as the cost of a solicitor will outweigh what you are claiming.


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    #7
    podger456
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭podger456


    :eek:
    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Well it is a mechanical device so it is subject to wear and tear. Hard drives have a MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure) so they are expected to wear out. 2 years seems low but it does depend on how much the laptop was used. If it was all day, every day, then obviously it will fail earlier. The chances are that if you take this to SCC then the shop probably wont contest it as the cost of a solicitor will outweigh what you are claiming.

    It would be at the lower end of the scale in terms of usage to be honest, an hour a day maybe, which is why I want to pursue this as it definitely hasn't been overused or abused.


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    #8
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Hard drives can simply fail. At any time. They many last many years but there are times they don't. A hard drive isn't going to cost very much. Have you costed a replacement? But their repair costs will included their time.

    I assume your argument that's its not reasonable that a 1400 laptop only lasts two years. Shouldn't need to go argue any further than that no?


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    #9
    podger456
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭podger456


    beauf wrote: »
    Hard drives can simply fail. At any time. They many last many years but there are times they don't. A hard drive isn't going to cost very much. Have you costed a replacement? But their repair costs will included their time.

    I assume your argument that's its not reasonable that a 1400 laptop only lasts two years. Shouldn't need to go argue any further than that no?

    It's going to cost €300 all in, including €70 already spent for the shop to diagnose the issue.
    Yeah, the argument is that 2 years is not a reasonable amount of time for a laptop, or a major component of it to last. I know it's a part subject to wear and tear, but 2 years is pulling the p1ss, considering the usage it's had.
    It's a pity though that I can't pursue apple directly on this, as I feel somewhat bad trying to stick it to the shop. What would happen I wonder if I cite apple in the SCC application? Presume they would just respond to the registrar say they were not the retailer and get out of it handy enough.


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    #10
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    podger456 wrote: »
    :eek:

    It would be at the lower end of the scale in terms of usage to be honest, an hour a day maybe, which is why I want to pursue this as it definitely hasn't been overused or abused.

    The HDD/laptop was not "reasonably durable". It is also ridiculous that anyone would charge so much for replacing a hard drive in any laptop, a good replacement should cost about €50 unless is it made of special mac book metals and precious bits?


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    #11
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    podger456 wrote: »
    It's going to cost €300 all in, including €70 already spent for the shop to diagnose the issue.
    Yeah, the argument is that 2 years is not a reasonable amount of time for a laptop, or a major component of it to last. I know it's a part subject to wear and tear, but 2 years is pulling the p1ss, considering the usage it's had.
    It's a pity though that I can't pursue apple directly on this, as I feel somewhat bad trying to stick it to the shop. What would happen I wonder if I cite apple in the SCC application? Presume they would just respond to the registrar say they were not the retailer and get out of it handy enough.
    I wouldn't even bother, you'd be wasting €25 and your own and everyone's time.


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    #12
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    70 is steep to check a hd. You could have bought a new drive for that. Is it especially hard to get into this mac laptop or something.

    Hard drives just fail at random. I wouldn't get into why they fail.


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    #13
    witnessmenow
    Registered Users Posts: 7,022 ✭✭✭witnessmenow


    All in my opinion but:

    I'd take the shop to the SCC if they dont fix it for you.

    Its not unreasonable that a €1400 laptop should last longer than 2 years if it has been properly looked after (as in wasnt damaged by you). The reason the laptop has stopped working is no concern of yours, you bought a laptop and now 2 years later you can't use it.

    People will say its not unexpected that a hard drive could fail at anytime, but you didn't buy a hard drive, you bought a laptop.

    Your stance should be that you bought a premium laptop and you have maintained it properly and you expect it to still be functioning two years later and it isn't. Let the shop argue the life expectancy of hard drive point in the SCC.

    To be honest I would be looking for the €75 diagnosis fee back too. You shouldn't have to pay for your consumer rights to be upheld.

    Let me replace the scenario with an example with something people know less about:
    You bought a fridge, there was much cheaper fridges that had the same basic functionality but you opted to buy a premium fridge that cost as much as 4 times as much as some of the cheaper alternatives. Within 2 years your fridge stops working. The shop has charged you €75 to diagnose the problem and has figured that the pump has stopped working and will be €300 to replace. People have said fridge pumps can go at anytime. Would people still be telling the OP to just get it replaced, or to just buy a new pump and fit it himself?


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    #14
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    IMO 2 years is not a reasonable time for a HDD to last. The shop's answer that this is a common failure could be interpreted to mean that your replacement could also fail within two years, which is equally unacceptable.

    One registered letter to the shop giving them a fixed timeframe to resolve, and then off to the SCC. Apple products command hefty prices, but there is an expectation that they will last a good while in return. FYI, I have a 3 year old Macbook Air that is still in great nick and running superbly. Granted it has flash memory rather than HDD, but still


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    #15
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Apple doesn't make the HDs anyway.

    I'd argue on the product as a whole. Not the parts within.


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    #16
    ssmith6287
    Registered Users Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭ssmith6287


    A hard drive could last a day or 10 years.

    99% of the time its misuse, as in the user squeezes the machine when picking it up (more common on older white macbooks), it been dropped, its getting a power surge or the laptop been thrown around, even and lesser often you keep a mobile phone on it (magnet in the phone). For €75 though id expect a hard drive diagnostics to be done where they tell ya whats wrong with the hard drive, not just hdd fail.

    Did you get a technician report from them? Ive gone through 3 hard drives on my macbook, but i know how they broke, twas my fault so i never claimed under warranty


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    #17
    paulheu
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭paulheu


    European Consumer Law requires a manufacturers warranty of at least two years. Independent countries can add to that.

    As an example in The Netherlands warranty will last as long as the product can be reasonably expected to be functional. In this case you would likely be able to argue that this is a premature failure and this a manufacturers defect.

    Irish consumer law requires a SIX year term for warranty and so you are well within your rights to claim a manufacturers defect here. The shop you bought the product from really can't be held responsible for the fault but they are held by law to handle the process of handling the warranty for you. It is Apple who need to honour this warranty though.

    See also:
    http://www.apple.com/ie/legal/statutory-warranty/


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    #18
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    paulheu wrote: »
    European Consumer Law requires a manufacturers warranty of at least two years. Independent countries can add to that.

    As an example in The Netherlands warranty will last as long as the product can be reasonably expected to be functional. In this case you would likely be able to argue that this is a premature failure and this a manufacturers defect.

    Irish consumer law requires a SIX year term for warranty and so you are well within your rights to claim a manufacturers defect here. The shop you bought the product from really can't be held responsible for the fault but they are held by law to handle the process of handling the warranty for you. It is Apple who need to honour this warranty though.

    See also:
    http://www.apple.com/ie/legal/statutory-warranty/

    Please be careful in what you post. Irish consumer law does not require a six year term for warranties. Irish law offers 6 years to seek redress for an issue under consumer law (nothing to do with warranties). Warranties are offered by manufacturers/retailers and act in addition to your consumer rights.

    IMO, the OP has valid cause for a case against the retailer due to the goods failing to last a reasonable lifetime / i.e. not fit for purpose. No need to drag warranties into it.


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