Is there a stigma attached to PLC courses?

Lollipop95

I'm doing a plc course at the moment and I'm loving it. It's a brilliant course, I've made great friends and most importantly I'm going to be able to go to my chosen college next year

However, a couple of weeks ago the class was discussing some peoples perceptions of PLC courses and the general consensus was that they're looked down on by a lot of students/peole in general. I definitely agree and lots of people in my course, including myself (comments weren't said directly to us) have heard the following comments from people:

"PLCs are for thickos" (said jokingly, but it contained a hint of seriousness!)

"You're only doing a plc, sure you have loads of free time!"

"It's only a plc, you can catch up"

"You're lucky you're doing a plc, it must be so handy"

I'd like to point out that none of those statements are true. The course I'm doing requires a lot of study and work. 2 students had to drop out because they were I'll - they missed a few weeks and our head teacher told them there was no point coming back as they were way too far behind. The teacher told them to reapply again next year.

Also, everyone in my class are bright students, one got over 500 points in the leaving cert, went to college, didn't like their course and so dropped out and decided on a plc course. The student now counts doing a plc as completely the best decision and they now know 100% what course they would like to do next year.

Anyways, the point of this thread is to ask do you think plc courses are looked down on by some people and if so, why?

Wobbly_Legs

I've never thought about anybody doing a PLC course or PLC courses in general in that light... I cannot understand why?
When I was in college one of the girls who lived beside us was doing a PLC course and I don't believe she ever encountered this reaction.
I don’t believe anybody looked at her any differently to the rest of us as students.

This was quite a while ago though but I cannot see why this may have changed.

jimgoose

I don't know what all that's about, programmable logic controllers can be bloody tricky.

silverharp

It might be a slightly longer route to where you want to go but otherwise no. My brother in law failed his final school exams later did a n open university course and a couple of years back got his PhD in science. Anything is possible

Dravokivich

There's a stigma with everything. The issue is ignorance in general, not the PLC courses. I've a friend that did a tourism course who couldn't get work anywhere because one other person who did the course before was a clueless dolt and everyone thought it was an issue with the course.

Which, needless to say is complete bollocks.

Spunge

"PLCs are for thickos" (said jokingly, but it contained a hint of seriousness!)

"You're only doing a plc, sure you have loads of free time!"

"It's only a plc, you can catch up"

"You're lucky you're doing a plc, it must be so handy"

I did a 1 year PLC before getting into college and id agree with most of these.
1) had to do it coz my LC wasnt good enough for degree entry, had the points but not the grades.
2) it was pretty handy to get all As in 10 subjects
3) and it is only a plc, its not worth much on its own bar an entry ticket into an honours degree or ordinary degree in an IT
4) i barely attended so yeah i had a lot of free time

although first year of college wasnt a massive step up in time commitment. 2-4 were though.

cloud493

PLC courses in my experience are bollocks, frankly. 4 years of my life spent on PLC courses, and its ****e. The college I go to is rubbish, the work isn't properly explained, the assignments often aren't handed out or put on the moodle server, deadlines aren't adhered here, half the time the tutors don't even show up for class, etc.

Subjective from college to college of course.

Geniass

cloud493 wrote: »

4 years of my life spent on PLC courses, and its ****e.

Why would anyone do 4 years of a Post Leaving Cert course? Especially someone that considers them a joke?

Where do PLC courses come on the NFQ scale - possibly level 6 when the Leaving Cert is 5 (probably the hardest exams you'll sit all things considered) - whereas Ordinary Degrees are Level 7.

The point being PLCs are only considered stepping stones and not terminal exams and can be avoided if you get sufficient points. Therefore they are looked down on. Lets call a spade a spade.

OP, while you might think the PLCs are tough going, wait until you can compare against a Level 7/8 degree. Good luck.

One eyed Jack

Lollipop95 wrote: »

I'm doing a plc course at the nomen tans I'm loving it. It's a brilliant course, I've made great friends and most importantly I'm going to be able to go to my chosen college next year

Congratulations, fair play to you OP

Anyways, the point of this thread is to ask do you think plc courses are looked down on by some people and if so, why?

Yes, they are, and it's simply because some people want to feel superior about anything and will use anything to make out other people are inferior to them. As long as you're doing what you feel is right for you OP, I wouldn't worry too much about other people's negative opinions. Education, in any form, is always a worthwhile endeavour.

biko

I think Penny in Big Bang Theory did a PLC course.

Generic Dreadhead

Sure, it's only a males tanning salon course, can't be that bad

Iwasfrozen

Geniass wrote: »

Why would anyone do 4 years of a Post Leaving Cert course? Especially someone that considers them a joke?

Where do PLC courses come on the NFQ scale - possibly level 6 when the Leaving Cert is 5 (probably the hardest exams you'll sit all things considered) - whereas Ordinary Degrees are Level 7.

The point being PLCs are only considered stepping stones and not terminal exams and can be avoided if you get sufficient points. Therefore they are looked down on. Lets call a spade a spade.

OP, while you might think the PLCs are tough going, wait until you can compare against a Level 7/8 degree. Good luck.

No. Just no.

towelly

Lollipop95 wrote: »

I'm doing a plc course at the nomen tans I'm loving it. It's a brilliant course, I've made great friends and most importantly I'm going to be able to go to my chosen college next year

However, a couple of weeks ago the class was discussing some peoples perceptions of PLC courses and the general consensus was that they're looked down on by a lot of students/peole in general. I definitely agree and lots of people in my course, including myself (comments weren't said directly to us) have heard the following comments from people:

"PLCs are for thickos" (said jokingly, but it contained a hint of seriousness!)

"You're only doing a plc, sure you have loads of free time!"

"It's only a plc, you can catch up"

"You're lucky you're doing a plc, it must be so handy"

I'd like to point out that none of those statements are true. The course I'm doing requires a lot of study and work. 2 students had to drop out because they were I'll - they missed a few weeks and our head teacher told them there was no point coming back as they were way too far behind. The teacher told them to reapply again next year.

Also, everyone in my class are bright students, one got over 500 points in the leaving cert, went to college, didn't like their course and so dropped out and decided on a plc course. The student now counts doing a plc as completely the best decision and they now know 100% what course they would like to do next year.

Anyways, the point of this thread is to ask do you think plc courses are looked down on by some people and if so, why?

Some people look down on people who attend plc courses, some people look down on people who go to certain colleges, some people are idiots, there will always be some people who look down on certain things. The important thing is what you get out of it.

Awkward Customer

Not a thing wrong with a plc course. I chose doing plcs in a local place a 13 min walk from my house rather than spend 3 hours commuting every day to the nearest institute or college. I would also argue that I got more out of it than 1 or 2 people I know that went to UCD/DIT etc. to do "big" courses. As long as your happy OP with the educational and social aspect as you seem to be.

Geniass

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No. Just no.

What other exam is as diverse as describing the chemical reactions in Photosynthesis to describe the imagery in Coleride's Kubla Khan and for kicks ...

'turn the equation from part (i) into a quadratic by multipling everything by (x-1).'

Also, the exams you take in College are likely something you've an interest in.

Getting good grades in the LC is pretty damn challenging.

Spunge

Geniass wrote: »

Why would anyone do 4 years of a Post Leaving Cert course? Especially someone that considers them a joke?

Where do PLC courses come on the NFQ scale - possibly level 6 when the Leaving Cert is 5 (probably the hardest exams you'll sit all things considered) - whereas Ordinary Degrees are Level 7.

The point being PLCs are only considered stepping stones and not terminal exams and can be avoided if you get sufficient points. Therefore they are looked down on. Lets call a spade a spade.

OP, while you might think the PLCs are tough going, wait until you can compare against a Level 7/8 degree. Good luck.

1 year lvl 5 - can gain you entry into year 1 of a degree
2 year lvl 6 - can gain you entry into year 2 of a degree

thats my experience with programming plcs -> computing/it degrees

Geniass

Spunge wrote: »

1 year lvl 5 - can gain you entry into year 1 of a degree
2 year lvl 6 - can gain you entry into year 2 of a degree

thats my experience with programming plcs -> computing/it degrees

Yip - stepping stones.

sashafierce

This post has been deleted.

Lollipop95

Cormac... wrote: »

Sure, it's only a males tanning salon course, can't be that bad

oops, typo!

Lollipop95

Thanks for all the replies guys I knew the course I wanted to do in school and the reason I'm doing the plc course is because I didn't meet the maths requirement. I was 20 points over the actual grade requirement but I did foundation maths. I got a D2 in the leaving and the course required a B2. The course I'm doing now covers the maths module so I'll be able to now enter it in September.

I know lots consider the plc route a waste of time but it's not in my case and so fingers crossed this time next year I'll be nearing the end of my first year in proper college

Iwasfrozen

Geniass wrote: »

What other exam is as diverse as describing the chemical reactions in Photosynthesis to describe the imagery in Coleride's Kubla Khan and for kicks ...

'turn the equation from part (i) into a quadratic by multipling everything by (x-1).'

Also, the exams you take in College are likely something you've an interest in.

Getting good grades in the LC is pretty damn challenging.

There aren't any exams as diverse but they definitely aren't the hardest exams most people will do in their lives. After studying for post degree professional exams I look back now on the leaving cert and realise, apart from languages, how easy it actually was.

Xenji

PLC courses are a great stepping stone to getting into college courses, but a PLC course by itself is as good as worthless.

Geniass

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

There aren't any exams as diverse but they definitely aren't the hardest exams most people will do in their lives. After studying for post degree professional exams I look back now on the leaving cert and realise, apart from languages, how easy it actually was.

ACCA exams and the like are tough (am one myself), but it's the actual diversity that makes the LC very difficult.

kowloon

It doesn't matter what you do, someone will look down on you for it. Some people need to look down their noses at others to bolster their own egos. Life is much easier when you don't worry about their opinions. Do what you think is right for you.

Spunge

I remember in school everyone would laugh at PLC courses, as everyone was just applying to UCD etc and if you didnt get into a degree you basically failed at life. Complete BS though.

strobe

In my school the lads that were doing the Plc were... well... in general they kept trying to shank other students and they basically attempted to steal everything that wasn't nailed down in the school. Most were assigned JLO's for one reason or another. When I hear PLC, I certainly dont think 'thickos', many of the lads were quite clearly evil geniuses, but I do think 'criminally insane'. But having said that, I do realise it's a very unfair view to hold, may well have just been my school or just that specific class, and not all of them were probably like that, and wouldn't judge an individual based off that previous experience.

Edit: Actually, disregard the above. That's the LCA I'm thinking of. They were the maniacs.

Spunge

strobe wrote: »

In my school the lads that were doing the Plc were... well... in general they kept trying to shank other students and they basically attempted to steal everything that wasn't nailed down in the school. Most were assigned JLO's for one reason or another. When I hear PLC, I certainly dont think 'thickos', but I do think 'criminally insane'. But having said that, I do realise it's a very unfair view to hold, may well have just been my school or just that specific class, and not all of them were probably like that, and wouldn't judge an individual based off that previous experience.

Well you only need to like basically pass the leaving cert to get into a PLC so obviously there will be some lower tier people that just want to arse around for another year or 2. Still do have to put in the work to get anything out of them.

strobe

Spunge wrote: »

Well you only need to like basically pass the leaving cert to get into a PLC so obviously there will be some lower tier people that just want to arse around for another year or 2. Still do have to put in the work to get anything out of them.

Edited it there. Was actually the LCA I was thinking of.

Nodin

Cormac... wrote: »

Sure, it's only a males tanning salon course, can't be that bad

The smell of burning human flesh is no laughing matter.

Pumpkinseeds

I did 2 PLC courses, basically because I was bored and wanted something to do. I found the courses interesting, but that being said, as a mature student I found a lot of the other students very juvenile, many had no interest in being there and essentially took the piss. I got the feeling that a lot of the ones who had just finished secondary school were only there because their parents made them do something other than sit around at home.

As for the other mature students, some were from Eastern Europe and some from Africa. They were the worst of all, often turning up without so much as a sheet of paper or a pen, let alone any of their assignments. I'd never do another PLC course. From my experiences I can understand why some people wouldn't take the courses seriously. Maybe there'd be more respect for them if there were a strict vetting process that ensured that only people with a genuine interst in doing the courses got a place.

As it stands now, it seems that there's a quota that has to be filled for students just out of secondary school, mature students and foreign students.

Hans Bricks

People frown upon trades, apprenticeships in Ireland generally .... basically anything that isn't a level 7 or 8 degree. Look at Germany, they put emphasis on technical apprenticeships and Industry related professions. Austria has the lowest rate of college attendees & graduates in western Europe, yet have the lowest unemployment rate.

Meanwhile, Ireland has the most overqualified population, a 28 : 1 ratio of people per job and this arrogance that graduates need 9 months of slave labor behind them before they even qualify for minimum wage in a full time job.

Whatever you think is best for learning and practicing the practical skills you need for whatever profession, line of work you desire, do it OP.

Lollipop95

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I did 2 PLC courses, basically because I was bored and wanted something to do. I found the courses interesting, but that being said, as a mature student I found a lot of the other students very juvenile, many had no interest in being there and essentially took the piss. I got the feeling that a lot of the ones who had just finished secondary school were only there because their parents made them do something other than sit around at home.

As for the other mature students, some were from Eastern Europe and some from Africa. They were the worst of all, often turning up without so much as a sheet of paper or a pen, let alone any of their assignments. I'd never do another PLC course. From my experiences I can understand why some people wouldn't take the courses seriously. Maybe there'd be more respect for them if there were a strict vetting process that ensured that only people with a genuine interst in doing the courses got a place.

As it stands now, it seems that there's a quota that has to be filled for students just out of secondary school, mature students and foreign students.

sorry to hear that your experience wasn't like mine, sounds awful! It may have been just the college itself. Where I'm going is very well respected AFAIK and students have great track records with progressing to college afterwards. However, there is a secondary/plc school in the same city and that school is well known for attracting some students who aren't of..well, very high class, to put it nicely! Hence why I did a lot of research on plc colleges before deciding on which one to go to

The Diabolical Monocle

Lollipop95 wrote: »

I'm doing a plc course at the moment and I'm loving it. It's a brilliant course, I've made great friends and most importantly I'm going to be able to go to my chosen college next year

Heres a bit of sagely advice from someone who, if they had paid less attention to stigma might be better off today. Its quite simple.

Fvck stigma, do what works.



I remember there was a stigma in my school/youth about dropping out and getting a trade.
But turns out that having a trade really works these days when nobody is hiring, or bosses are treating people like sht with zero hour contracts and all sorts of below minimum wage shenanigans. (lest you be replaced by an Indian)

Another stigma was back in ... oh 2007 or something. It went something like:
Haw haw haw, you're not buying a six bed mansion for 50 times your annual income, what the hells wrong with you.


going for a trade instead of a degree in photography and art history: there was a stigma.
not believing you were a coming of age real estate genius: there was a stigma.

those who went against such buffoonery are today likely able to pick their well paid job and live a life free of a shadow of negative equity.

do what works.

alroley

I did a PLC before going to college and it was an absolute joke. I agree with what's been said to you tbh. We were constantly being told to go home early, and there was so few hours of classes to begin with. It was so easy, and most of the people also doing the course weren't the brightest.

superelliptic

I did a PLC Course in Galway for 2 years and it got me into college. Thanks to that PLC course I have an IT Degree, industry qualifications, and a salary. The only thicko's around are the ones knocking you for using your opportunity for higher education and a career wisely.

FFs - I wouldn't have much of anything right now if I hadn't gotten that PLC and gone on to 3rd level. I cannot understand the level stupidity and intellectual snobbery of some people. Seriously WTF?

Zemuppet

I did a level 5 PLC pre arts course two years ago as a way to gently get back into education after 4 years since i left a level 8 science course.

I was the oldest (25 at the time), where the rest of the class where mostly school leavers who probably didn't get the points they needed. Now some students fell into the category of "dosser/waster" but the majority where intelligent hardworking people. PLCs are a gentler way for 18-19 year old to absorb the shock from schook to higher education so they have their uses.

The work load in that course would be near or the same amount to first year in a level 8 but the standard of work needed for a distinction is lower. Most students got what they wanted through hard work but the messers did as in any course of any level.

My only issue was that the facilities of that College were absymal and the majority of tutors actually secondary level teachers. One of which treated the students as chIldren rather than adults for the work not handed in. Its easy enough to follow any other college's policy of no handing in work, where if you don't give it up, you get nothing and they won't chase you for it.

Robsweezie

discussion and mere acknowledgment of the an existence of a stigma feeds the stigma itself in my opinion. the stigma is getting airtime despite peoples best efforts to conquer it.

token101

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Yes, they are, and it's simply because some people want to feel superior about anything and will use anything to make out other people are inferior to them.

This is a ridiculous answer.

Firstly, people "look down" on PLC courses because there is a lower entry threshold and they are usually shorter courses.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

As long as you're doing what you feel is right for you OP, I wouldn't worry too much about other people's negative opinions.

Except if those negative opinions are constructive criticisms, ie 'that basket weaving is unlikely to lead directly to a well paid job'.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Education, in any form, is always a worthwhile endeavour.

No, not in "any form" it isn't.

One eyed Jack

token101 wrote: »

This is a ridiculous answer.

Firstly, people "look down" on PLC courses because there is a lower entry threshold and they are usually shorter courses.

That simply sounds like those people are insecure in their own choices tbh. If a PLC course isn't for you, it's not for you, but why should you care whether it's for other people or not?

Except if those negative opinions are constructive criticisms, ie 'that basket weaving is unlikely to lead directly to a well paid job'.

More often than not, what you call "constructive criticism" is simply negative judgment. Constructive criticism implies that you put forward an alternative that in your opinion might be a better alternative, depending of course on whether you have taken any heed of the person's opinion on what motivates them. Some people are motivated by something they're passionate about than they are by money, so while a well paying job might motivate you, it may not necessarily be a motivator for a person who wants to do basket weaving.

A person who wants to do basket weaving will excel at basket weaving and be much happier to do basket weaving and will be happier and more productive in the long term, than they would be in a high stress executive position.

No, not in "any form" it isn't.

Can you give me any example at all where a person educating themselves is not beneficial for them?

carzony

I've done 2 plc courses and found them excellent. The level 5 was very informative and a little easy going while the level 6 was full of work.

I think it depends on what career you want to get into. I know many lads who have gotten into the Garda and army with basic level 5 courses behind them.

The leaving cert needs to adopt the PLC structure with assignments, work experience ect.. The leaving cert is outdated, unfair and to much pressure for students considering 2 years off work only count on how well you do in a poxy exam.

scdublin

Yep, unfortunately some people do look down their noses on people who "only" do a PLC course after school. It's incredibly ignorant as they have no idea what it's like compared to a "real" college, since they've never done one. Someone did literally say that to me - that I was "only doing a PLC course and it's not a real college". Pr!cks.

Only a small amount of people from my year went on to do one and a lot of people gave the vibe that they thought they were better than us for this. I went on to do a degree course relating to my PLC area and have now worked in that field for a few years so it worked out fine for me. Funny thing is some of the same snobs that looked down on my PLC course ended up dropping out of their degree courses because they had no interest in it and only realised it when it was too late.

Miall108

Yes there most definately is. People who do them are generally stereotyped as either thick or delinquents who will go nowhere in life

Darkglasses

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

There aren't any exams as diverse but they definitely aren't the hardest exams most people will do in their lives. After studying for post degree professional exams I look back now on the leaving cert and realise, apart from languages, how easy it actually was.

I have a BA and an MA and the Leaving Cert exams were definitely the hardest I did. I guess YMMV.