Lease ran out in December. Landlord now wants to increase rent

detoxkid

Hi all. Just wondering eould anyone know our rights. We have lived in our rented house since 16th dec 2013. The lease ran out and we did nothing about it. The landlord phoned me the other day saying he was putting up the rent. I know he is entitled to fo this but it is just so greedy and it will drive me mad to pay allot extra for the exact same service. We will probably move out once we know where we stand. Just wondering if he has to give us particular notice to move out if we are unhappy with the raise in rent?

ABajaninCork

When was the rent last raised? If it hasn't, then I'm afraid the LL's right, and he probably isn't being greedy. But the rise must be in line with market rents for the area, and can only be done on an annual basis. I'd do a bit of research to see what the rate is for your area, and try to negotiate if you feel it's too high.

If you've been there over a year, then you have to give 42 days notice. See here.

runawaybishop

detoxkid wrote: »

Hi all. Just wondering eould anyone know our rights. We have lived in our rented house since 16th dec 2013. The lease ran out and we did nothing about it. The landlord phoned me the other day saying he was putting up the rent. I know he is entitled to fo this but it is just so greedy and it will drive me mad to pay allot extra for the exact same service. We will probably move out once we know where we stand. Just wondering if he has to give us particular notice to move out if we are unhappy with the raise in rent?

It needs to be in writing and he is entitled to review the rent once every 12 months. It must be in line with market rates in your area. Your LL is in a business, nothing greedy about it so take the emotion out of it an assess if the house is worth what he is asking, assuming it is reasonable.

Mrs OBumble

He has to give you 28 days notice of a rent increase, in writing (opinions vary as to whether a text-message is "in writing").

You have to give him 42 days notice if you intend to leave but you can negotiate a shorter notice period f you both agree.

If you think the rent increase is too high, you start by negotiating with the landlord and if you're not happy you can appeal to the PRTB. But you will only win the appeal if the increase is out of proportion to the market rent for the house.


Have you started looking for other places to live? What is the rent like there?



And I'm curious - every time that the price of bread / pints / bus-fares goes up, do you refuse to buy them because you cannot stand paying more for the same thing?

jimmycrackcorm

The first thing you should do is see how much you might have to pay in rent elsewhere as you might find that your now going to pay the "correct" rent.

ted1

detoxkid wrote: »

Hi all. Just wondering eould anyone know our rights. We have lived in our rented house since 16th dec 2013. The lease ran out and we did nothing about it. The landlord phoned me the other day saying he was putting up the rent. I know he is entitled to fo this but it is just so greedy and it will drive me mad to pay allot extra for the exact same service. We will probably move out once we know where we stand. Just wondering if he has to give us particular notice to move out if we are unhappy with the raise in rent?

How is it greedy? Landlords are now paying USC, and property tax on rentals, tradesmen have increased charges. He is simple reacting to the market and unjust charges by the government as supported by the ESRI

detoxkid

Thanks all. In relation to the greedy comment..im a reluctant landlord myself and i havent tried to raise the rent in our place because i know how hard it is to find good tenents. However u are right i need to take the emotion out of it...

Trojan

Negotiate.

Your position:

We're long-term tenants, have been here X years, want to stay at least another X.
We're good tenants, as you know from your inspection the place is good.
Ask if they'd accept an increase of 10-50% of their suggested increase.

Finding good long-term tenants is difficult, and the extra income they gain by increasing rent would be lost if they go 4/6/8/12 weeks with no income.

Be reasonable and calm, it's a business negotiation for them.

Sala

I was told my rent was being upped. They asked was I going to stay. I told them I intended to stay, but now that would be dependent on the rent review. Heard nothing since.

househero

I was told our rent would increase. I told them I wouldn't pay more. They didn't increase it.

The_Conductor

Our letting agent advised that market rents had increased over 40% over what we were charging. We had not increased rent in 4 years. Our net income dropped by over 25% thanks to new Government taxes (USC etc). We proposed a 20% increased to the tenant (keeping in mind- the prevailing market rate would still be significantly higher than we were proposing). They refused. They left. We relet the property at open market rates- and got our choice of tenant offering it and more. Agent also very happy (they get a flat 10% of the gross rental income for managing the tenancy).

If the landlord is being fair- and the proposed increase is still below the open market rate- you may get a small decrease on the proposed increase from the landlord- but don't be too tough playing hard-ball- as the landlord can almost invariably let the property at open market rates to someone else- there are no shortage of prospective tenants out there.

The big winner in all of this- is the government with all their new taxes and charges for landlords- not the landlord, and certainly not the tenant.........

househero

The_Conductor wrote: »

don't be too tough playing hard-ball- as the landlord can almost invariably let the property at open market rates to someone else- there are no shortage of prospective tenants out there..

Interesting to hear the landlords side of it.

How do you think a 20% increase effected your tenants budget? And life

Their income had also dropped due to USC etc

garhjw

househero wrote: »

Interesting to hear the landlords side of it.

How do you think a 20% increase effected your tenants budget? And life

Their income had also dropped due to USC etc

What has that got to do with the landlord? If you ask for a raise in work do you think about the mpact it has on your employer?

Baralis1

The tenant seems to be getting screwed from all angles. Higher cost of utilities, water charges, higher rents (I understand the market rate is rising), and the landlords are passing on all their extra costs and taxes on to the tenant through rent.
Tenants wages haven't increased so the tenant takes all the hit and has less and less money at the end of the day. Soon some tenants won't be able to afford to live in a cardboard box at the side of the street at this rate.
Is it not fair that landlords take some of the hit for higher taxes/charges instead of passing it all on to tenants?

The_Conductor

househero wrote: »

Interesting to hear the landlords side of it.

How do you think a 20% increase effected your tenants budget? And life

Their income had also dropped due to USC etc

Most landlords meet their tenants halfway.
A 20% increase in rent does not mean the landlord got a 20% increase in income- the big winner is the government.

If the landlord has not sought an increase over a protracted period of time- the rent is already at significantly below the open market rates. Aka the tenant is being insulated from having to pay the going rate (perhaps the landlord is happy to have a tenant he knows in the property, perhaps the tenant has been a good tenant and the landlord recognises this etc etc)

There are no shortage of tenants willing to pay the going rate for any given property in areas of demand in Galway, Dublin and Cork.

The issue in all of this- is not the big bad landlord- its that the government has abdicated its responsibility to provide housing to its citizens to the private sector. If the government housed those incapable of housing themselves- by building more social housing units- it would free up more property on the open market- and the law of supply and demand would suggest rents would fall.

Most landlords are quite open to discussing things with good tenants- however, you should not expect a 40-50% discount to the open market rates.

Government policy has been to discourage landlords altogether (largely through new and expanded taxes, registration charges etc etc). This- along with the new bubble in house prices- means landlords have come to a halt and are no longer buying property to let.

A landlord letting a property to a tenant- is a commercial transaction between the two parties. On occasion a landlord may give a tenant recognition of their having fulfilled their duty as a tenant- but paying your rent on time- and keeping the property to a reasonable standard- are normal and not exceptional things. A landlord does not owe a tenant a reduction on their rent- though most are reasonable. A 20% increase in rent- after a period of no increase, during which open market rents have increased over 50%- is a generous gesture on the part of a landlord.

Rents fell significantly (in many cases by over 50%) between 2007 and 2009. These decreases were passed onto tenants by rent decreases, fairly promptly (and it was open to a tenant to request them at any stage). Break clauses in residential and commercial leases were using as an implement to extract the maximum of concessions from landlords. 'Hello' periods (where an initial period of time was rent-free) for new tenants- became quite widely used. This is part of the economic cycle- rents went down- and then they went back up again.........

Rents have risen. Taxes and charges have risen. The government is only paying the issue lip service. Landlords can end up paying over 70% of their gross rental income in taxes and charges. The main beneficiary of rent increases- is the tax man.

A 20% increase in rent- will have a massive financial impact on a tenants life. A new baby will have a massive impact on their financial wellbeing. Loosing their job will have a massive impact on a tenant's life. Having to move to a new tenancy and pay the going rate- would have a massive impact on a tenants life.

Life is a series of choices. We try to make the best possible choices to suit our circumstances. Many factors are outside of our control- but we have to learn to live with them nonetheless. Sticking our heads in the sand and going 'La-la-la' as danger approaches- is not a good choice for most people. Slinging insults is also not a good approach. Being proactive and achieving the best possible compromise that does not jeopardise the situation- is what most people do.

Greenmachine

garhjw wrote: »

What has that got to do with the landlord? If you ask for a raise in work do you think about the mpact it has on your employer?

If you asked any employer for a 20% wage increase you would be given marching order, no matter how valuable you think you are.

The_Conductor

Baralis1 wrote: »

The tenant seems to be getting screwed from all angles. Higher cost of utilities, water charges, higher rents (I understand the market rate is rising), and the landlords are passing on all their extra costs and taxes on to the tenant through rent.
Tenants wages haven't increased so the tenant takes all the hit and has less and less money at the end of the day. Soon some tenants won't be able to afford to live in a cardboard box at the side of the street at this rate.
Is it not fair that landlords take some of the hit for higher taxes/charges instead of passing it all on to tenants?

Its not all passed on to tenants though.
This is a perception that people really need to understand a lot better.
The big beneficiary in all of this is the government- not the landlord, and certainly not the tenant.

Landlords have exited the property market by and large- because even with rents the way they are- it is not possible make a return on their investment. Landlords are business people- if there was a profit to be made- they would follow it.

There is a strong tenant perception out there that the landlord is a big bad person who is out to screw them. Most professional landlords are reasonable people who are aware of their rights and obligations and follow these, as prescribed by the 2004 Act- to the letter of the law.

The market for new properties becoming available for letting- has dried up- because the situation has become untenable for all but the hardiest of landlords. Government policy is actively encouraging landlords to leave the business. This, in turn, is driving up prices- as supply is diminishing.

Tax policy, more than anything else, is behind the increases in rents- and the complete and utter stop in new properties being added to the supply of rental accommodation.

murphaph

househero wrote: »

Interesting to hear the landlords side of it.

How do you think a 20% increase effected your tenants budget? And life

Their income had also dropped due to USC etc

Tenants didn't care about this stuff when the rents were tumbling. They just wanted their rent reduced.

davo10

Will the tenant care when interest rates rise and mortgage repayments go up?

punisher5112

davo10 wrote: »

Will the tenant care when interest rates rise and mortgage repayments go up?

Thought they were meant to be coming down.

The_Conductor

punisher5112 wrote: »

Thought they were meant to be coming down.

Interest rates?
No?
The government has been making noises- but its not in their interests to make lending institutions lower their rates- until the state has offloaded its shares in the various lending institutions.
Thats all thats going to happen in the medium term- hot air from the government- to make the public believe they are doing their best to try and protect them.

I can't see interest rates for landlords falling for the foreseeable future.

The big change- is the new 60% rule for investors (landlords)- which will make it even more unlikely that additional property is going to be added to the stock of rental property.......

timetogo

Greenmachine wrote: »

If you asked any employer for a 20% wage increase you would be given marching order, no matter how valuable you think you are.

Not if I was getting paid 40% below market rate.

beauf

househero wrote: »

Interesting to hear the landlords side of it.

How do you think a 20% increase effected your tenants budget? And life

Their income had also dropped due to USC etc

Its got nothing to do with the tenant. It's to do with the market. The only reason to wouldn't raise the rent is if the market won't pay the increase. Or you have a tenant you want to retain.

As a tenant do you not shop around for places that are better for the same or less money. Do you worry that the LL might struggle to rent out the place again, or the cost of changing tenant might cause the LL to lose money. The LL might be a old lady and the property their only income.

All this is irrelevant.

Greenmachine

timetogo wrote: »

Not if I was getting paid 40% below market rate.

Where are you pulling 40% out of?

_Kaiser_

Greenmachine wrote: »

Where are you pulling 40% out of?

Percentages aside, the point is valid.

Wages have also seen an increase (in some sectors) in the last 12 months after years of cuts/stagnation. A simple way to tell if you're getting below market rate is to download one of the salary surveys that the agencies put out.

If you're making significantly less than this, and feel that you have a valid case for an increase (based on your performance, taking on extra responsibilities, maybe you got some more qualifications etc) then asking for a 20% increase isn't a bad thing.. BUT you also need to be prepared to jump ship if it's a sticking point and your employer won't play ball.

People also get too hung-up on the "headline" gross figure... a 5/10k increase might sound like a lot but after the government takes it's cut you might only end up with €200 more per month in your pay packet (not that much when you factor in increased utilities, fuel costs on the rise again etc). As The Conductor refers to above about landlords, the government is the real winner here too.

timetogo

Greenmachine wrote: »

Where are you pulling 40% out of?

You know, the post where the guy said he was charging 40% less so he settled on a 20% increase. So exactly the same post you pulled your 20% from :rolleyes:
Or do you just reply to random posts without reading the context?

Post 11 on this thread.