Letting Agency Letter for Water Deposit

iceman777

This morning I received a letter from the Letting Agency I rent my apartment from stating that by the end of April I need to either:

1. Prove that I have signed-up to Irish Water and that I will pay the bill

OR

2. Pay them €260 deposit in case I do not sign-up


For the record, I have signed-up to Irish Water and I will pay my bill. I am a mdoel tenant with no arrears, and pay my other utility bills on time.

There is also nothing noted in my lease to state I must pay a deposit to the Letting Agency for Irish Water or other utilities.

Before I respond to the letter, I want to get some information:

1. Do I have to prove that I am signed up to Irish Water? I do not need to prove this for other utilities e.g. Electricity or Gar for example

2. Can I ask the Letting Agency to legally prove that they require the proof I signed-up to Irish Water?


Can I get your opinions or other options please?

A_Sober_Paddy

iceman777 wrote: »

This morning I received a letter from the Letting Agency I rent my apartment from stating that by the end of April I need to either:

1. Prove that I have signed-up to Irish Water and that I will pay the bill

OR

2. Pay them €260 deposit in case I do not sign-up


For the record, I have signed-up to Irish Water and I will pay my bill. I am a mdoel tenant with no arrears, and pay my other utility bills on time.

There is also nothing noted in my lease to state I must pay a deposit to the Letting Agency for Irish Water or other utilities.

Before I respond to the letter, I want to get some information:

1. Do I have to prove that I am signed up to Irish Water? I do not need to prove this for other utilities e.g. Electricity or Gar for example

2. Can I ask the Letting Agency to legally prove that they require the proof I signed-up to Irish Water?


In summary, can I get your opinions or other options that I may have?

I got the same letter,but not signed up with Irish water yet...but lease is up in august...

Eldarion

How interesting...

This is all new stuff OP so no one will have the cold hard proven facts at the ready for this one I think. "Legally prove that they require proof" is legality gone mad.

By the sounds of it this is a Letting Agency giving the two fingers to the minister's statement saying "If a tenant doesn't pay the water charges then the Landlord is liable and can take it out of the deposit". So now the Landlords and agents on their behalf are in a situation where they have tenants who paid a deposit prior to this development which was never factored in and they're seeking to cover any potential losses by retroactively increasing the deposit requirements.

I can understand both sides really. Landlords and Agents can ask for any amount of deposit they like, they're not legally bound to a figure. Of course you're already in tenancy so I'm not sure you're legally obligated to pay the requested deposit increase either. Like I said this is an interesting one, and one of many to come I think.

iceman777

Eldarion wrote: »

How interesting...

This is all new stuff OP so no one will have the cold hard proven facts at the ready for this one I think. "Legally prove that they require proof" is legality gone mad.

You are right of course.

I do not want to sound petty, however, in this case, could I ask the Letting Agency why they are not asking for other utilities and draw out this Irish Water discussion?

I was thinking of writing to the Agency and asking them to call out some evening for me to show the proof (but that does sound quite petty).

wench

For your other utilities, if you are signed up as the named bill payer the liability is strictly yours.
Your landlord cannot be chased for your non payment of those.

For the water bills it is less clear-cut, and it seems it can come back on them.
They are just trying to avoid being left with a bill outstanding.

Lux23

I would send an email saying that you have registered with Irish Water and fully intend to pay the bill. The landlord can probably check with Irish Water themselves to make sure they are not liable for water rates relating to their property.

The_Morrigan

Op, have you checked your lease to see if there is a broad clause relating to the payment of utilities and taxes? There is a section in the RTA under tenant obligations that cover this afaik and it would seem odd for a standard lease to omit them.

Greenmachine

Agreed with what others have said. If it is not in the original lease, there may be some restriction on when and how they can implement changes to the contract. A notice period may be required, with a exit clause.

Mrs OBumble

I think this is an excellent pragmatic move by the letting agent, which both protects the landlord's interests and gives you a way to avoid paying any extra deposit.

While the action may not be specific mandated by the law, I doubt you would find any law saying they're not allowed to take this approach either. And a lot of lawyer time=money could be wasted proving otherwise.

If my LL does this, I will be very happy to giving them a copy of my IW sign-up form, and a signed statement saying I will pay any water charges.



Pragmatism, 1. Legalism, Nill.

iceman777

It is pragmatic by the Letting Agency / Landlord as I believe this is a blanket letter sent out to all their tenants.

I did not see any reference in the lease to taxes etc., but I will follow-up.

However, I do not like submitting proof to the Letting Agency if I am not legally obliged. Maybe it is more in principle than anything else based on me not having to prove it for other utilities, but I understand the Irish Water saga muddies the water.

Thank you for all the feedback.

daheff

iceman777 wrote: »

This morning I received a letter from the Letting Agency I rent my apartment from stating that by the end of April I need to either:

1. Prove that I have signed-up to Irish Water and that I will pay the bill

OR

2. Pay them €260 deposit in case I do not sign-up


Can I get your opinions or other options please?

I understand why they are doing this. And from their point of view it makes sense. However there is no onus on you (as you mention you cant see anything in your contract re taxes etc) to provide this.

I would also think that requiring an additional deposit may well be a change to your contract, which I believe they cant do without your consent...it'd be an interesting argument discussion to have with the PRTB

zagmund

Hmm, what is this Irish Water Sign Up Form of which you speak?

I (like a dutiful citizen/drone) signed up with PPS numbers, childrens details, etc . . . well before the original "cut off-ish" date last September or something. Then I got a little lost as to what was expected because it kept changing - it seemed terribly confusing but I was reasonably sure I was signed up.

I sent them in the form, but I don't recall anything coming back or me keeping a copy. Am I supposed to have some sort of receipt from them to prove I'm signed up? Will this be the TV Licence Inspector van/child catcher/bogey man of the future?

If you don't eat up your dinner the Irish Water man will come looking for your forms and take you away . . .

z

daheff

iceman777 wrote: »

However, I do not like submitting proof to the Letting Agency if I am not legally obliged. Maybe it is more in principle than anything else based on me not having to prove it for other utilities, but I understand the Irish Water saga muddies the water.

.

Personally if I were in your shoes I'd be taking a similar stance...I'd tell the letting agent where to go. They have no party to a contract between you and a utility provider...and I would seriously doubt the legalities of such if some tried to take a court case on it.

foggy_lad

wench wrote: »

For your other utilities, if you are signed up as the named bill payer the liability is strictly yours.
Your landlord cannot be chased for your non payment of those.

For the water bills it is less clear-cut, and it seems it can come back on them.
They are just trying to avoid being left with a bill outstanding.

No it is not less clear cut! If you are a tenant then you and you alone are responsible for the water taxes for that property and as long as the landlord informs IW that you(your name) are a tenant since XX date then they are not and can not be held in any way liable for the bill.

Lux23 wrote: »

I would send an email saying that you have registered with Irish Water and fully intend to pay the bill. The landlord can probably check with Irish Water themselves to make sure they are not liable for water rates relating to their property.

Tell them to bugger off with their scam! it is a scam by unscrupulous agents to get more money for doing very little, most already try to withhold deposits for cleaning and wear and tear at the end of tenancies and this is no different!

Irish Water have confirmed on twitter that no landlord will be responsible or liable for water charges that remain unpaid by their tenants!

https://twitter.com/IrishWater/status/569805370526441472?lang=en

daheff

foggy_lad wrote: »

No it is not less clear cut! If you are a tenant then you and you alone are responsible for the water taxes for that property and as long as the landlord informs IW that you(your name) are a tenant since XX date then they are not and can not be held in any way liable for the bill.

That's all well & good the landlord doing this to keep Irish water happy & off their back...but there is an element of doubt (at least in my mind) of a breach of the data protection act in providing your details to Irish water. What's to stop an unscrupulous landlord saying you lived there when you didn't ?(eg they said you were there while it was unoccupied while they did it up so that the landlord doesn't have any liability)

foggy_lad

daheff wrote: »

That's all well & good the landlord doing this to keep Irish water happy & off their back...but there is an element of doubt (at least in my mind) of a breach of the data protection act in providing your details to Irish water. What's to stop an unscrupulous landlord saying you lived there when you didn't ?(eg they said you were there while it was unoccupied while they did it up so that the landlord doesn't have any liability)

It will be a complete mess and was never going to be anything else but my understanding on the legal side is that the landlord is responsible for the time the place is empty and only pays a reduced amount for that time, the tenant is responsible for the time that they live in the property and a landlord should only give the tenants name and address(property address) to Irish Water. It is then up to IW to chase up the debt BUT IW have been clouding the whole issue with bull and roumers about putting liens on property and chasing people even after death! they are trying to get the landlords to police their scheme because the whole thing is such a mess that is the only way they would be assured of getting any reasonable level of payment/revenue from tenants!

Carawaystick

You could tell the letting agent you could do the work they requested of you but you would have to bill them at IW going rate.

I presume you work, so you'ld be "consulting" and filling the information the letting agent wants out of hours.
Thats 282 euros for the first hour....

iceman777

My letting agency has made the local paper for sending out letters to 850 tenants they cater for. There is no online link to the story as far as I am aware.

I see both sides of the argument, but I still think out of principle that they do not have the ability to request a water deposit and for me to prove to them I have signed up to IW.

iceman777

The story is now online http://www.limerickpost.ie/2015/04/05/letting-agents-tell-limerick-tenants-to-register-with-irish-water-or-pay-e260/