Sinn Fein member Attacked

UTP Mohammed

thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-councillor-assault-bus-hate-crime-2023887-Mar2015/

What do yous think our neighbor Ireland is being overrun with scum like this. I also assume there were other passengers who couldn't care less

Dub.

Desolation Of Smug wrote: »

Makes a change..role reversal?

Who have SF councillors been attacking?

suicide_circus

She should get an OBE

The Backwards Man

Dub. wrote: »

Who have SF councillors been attacking?

Basic maths

Birneybau

Yous? Neighbor Ireland?

Saralee4

UTP Mohammed wrote: »

thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-councillor-assault-bus-hate-crime-2023887-Mar2015/

What do yous think our neighbor Ireland is being overrun with scum like this. I also assume there were other passengers who couldn't care less

That is terrible and it was very brave of her to intervene and try to calm the situation.

I remember standing in a taxi cue. Two teenage girls wanted to skip an older woman and her teenage daughter. They started attacking the woman. Everyone just stood in the queue though but I think it is just because people don't know how to react.

If a man goes over and takes the girls off, they could twist it an accuse him of assaulting them and the women are too afraid of getting involved and attacked themselves. I think someone called the police in the end.

Another thing I remember someone telling me about a man and woman fighting on a train. The man was getting physical with the woman pushing her and shoving her and then a male passenger said something to the man telling him to stop and the woman turns around and starts giving verbal abuse to the passenger who was sticking up for her!!

So I don't think its that people couldn't care less, they just don't know what to do.

K4t

UTP Mohammed wrote: »

What do yous think our neighbor Ireland is being overrun with scum like this.

I think one crazy lady on a bus is one crazy lady on a bus.

I also assume there were other passengers who couldn't care less

You seem to enjoy making assumptions.

Dub.

K4t wrote: »

I think one crazy lady on a bus is one crazy lady on a bus.
You seem to enjoy making assumptions.

I don`t know. There are people on this very thread supporting the attack.

The bystander effect and diffusion of responsibility...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese

One eyed Jack

After reading the article, I'm still not sure what the fact the woman is a Sinn Fein councillor has to do with anything?

She witnessed a couple being subjected to racist abuse on a bus, and intervened. She wasn't attacked because she was a Sinn Fein councillor.

K4t

Dub. wrote: »

I don`t know. There are people on this very thread supporting the attack.

They're not supporting the attack, they're looking for thanks.

Specialun

Why is the SF of revelance?

Sir Osis of Liver.

Kneecap some sense into that racist bitch.

Desolation Of Smug

K4t wrote: »

They're not supporting the attack, they're looking for thanks.

Or apathetic. You seldom read "FF member attacked" or "FG member drops a clanger..why is being in SF a defining element? "Person attacked" seems more normal..

Saralee4

The fact that she is a SF councillor has no relevance however she probably brought it to peoples attention because of her status and raised the issue because after that incident she now has personal experience and feels that it is an important issue that people need to know about and can use her experience to highlight that.

I'm not sure how someone can make a negative about what she did because of the fact that she is a SF councillor though.

Junkyard Tom

Saralee4 wrote: »

I'm not sure how someone can make a negative about what she did because of the fact that she is a SF councillor though.

It's reflexive.

If a SF member found a cure for cancer there'd be people reflexively trying to cast aspersions on their character and/or motivations.

the groutch

UTP Mohammed wrote: »

thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-councillor-assault-bus-hate-crime-2023887-Mar2015/

What do yous think our neighbor Ireland is being overrun with scum like this. I also assume there were other passengers who couldn't care less

firstly, it was in Belfast, so someone could just as easily turn it back on you and comment about "you Brits".

also Bradford isn't exactly a crime-free zone either, 96 cases of violent crime in one month.

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/li/recorded_crime.in.bradford/

biko

Blah blah SF, blah NI, blah IRA, blah economics, blah socialism, blah EU.
Blah

SpaceSasqwatch

biko wrote: »

Blah blah SF, blah NI, blah IRA, blah economics, blah socialism, blah EU.
Blah

meh

strobe

Desolation Of Smug wrote: »

Or apathetic. You seldom read "FF member attacked" or "FG member drops a clanger.

Pretty sure I've read that quite a bit on this very site.

Cold War Kid

Desolation Of Smug wrote: »

Or apathetic. You seldom read "FF member attacked" or "FG member drops a clanger..why is being in SF a defining element? "Person attacked" seems more normal..

I'd have thought the fact they're a counsellor and/or the party they are affiliated with would always be mentioned if something happens to them; it simply adds to the story.

Full Marx

Belfast has a bad racism problem with many incidents in recent times including foreign people being intimidated out of areas by loyalists. Its the responsibility of local reps to lead the way in confronting racism, so fair play

Sinn Fein can do racist too, if they don't perceive someone is as Irish and Nationalist as they are you'll hear people like Martin McGuinness haul out their favourite "West Brit" reference as a slur.

michael999999

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sinn Fein can do racist too, if they don't perceive someone is as Irish and Nationalist as they are you'll hear people like Martin McGuinness haul out their favourite "West Brit" reference as a slur.

Thats interesting, Would you mind throwing up a link to where he said that?

michael999999

michael999999 wrote: »

Thats interesting, Would you mind throwing up a link to where he said that?

http://www.thejournal.ie/mcguinness-blames-west-brit-influence-for-ira-references-231533-Sep2011/

Junkyard Tom

Deleted User wrote: »

Sinn Fein can do racist too, if they don't perceive someone is as Irish and Nationalist as they are you'll hear people like Martin McGuinness haul out their favourite "West Brit" reference as a slur.

Failed moral equivocation as usual.

'West Brits' whatever they might be are not a race.

Junkyard Cat

Junkyard Cat wrote: »

Failed moral equivocation as usual.

'West Brits' whatever they might be are not a race.

"As usual"? I don't think I have ever made this point before!

Using any people as the basis of an expression of contempt is at least pejorative and may be racist. Similarly many Irish people regard defining stupidity by reference to the Irish (as in "that's so Irish" or "thick Mick") as at least offensive and possibly racist, or not worth defending either way.

Junkyard Tom

Deleted User wrote: »

Using any people as the basis of an expression of contempt is at least pejorative and may be racist.

Let's test that 'any people' statement for truth shall we? Would it apply to sex offenders, child abusers, serial killers and war criminals? No. Those types of people deserve any pejorative they might attract.

Deleted User wrote: »

Similarly many Irish people regard defining stupidity by reference to the Irish (as in "that's so Irish" or "thick Mick") as at least offensive and possibly racist, or not worth defending either way.

That's specifically referring to a nation of people and could indeed be described as offensive to people of that nation.

'West Brit' may be a pejorative, it may be a rather lazy catch all description but it isn't 'doing racism'.

Berserker

One eyed Jack wrote: »

After reading the article, I'm still not sure what the fact the woman is a Sinn Fein councillor has to do with anything?

It's a nice bit of PR for them.

Full Marx wrote: »

Belfast has a bad racism problem with many incidents in recent times including foreign people being intimidated out of areas by loyalists. Its the responsibility of local reps to lead the way in confronting racism, so fair play

And the Nationalists too. Not much racial diversity in the Republican strongholds in Belfast or Derry/L'Derry.

Junkyard Cat

Junkyard Cat wrote: »

Let's test that 'any people' statement for truth shall we? Would it apply to sex offenders, child abusers, serial killers and war criminals? No. Those types of people deserve any pejorative they might attract.

Um, I meant people in the sense of the people of a nation or ethnic group, not the plural of person. I didn't mean using any group of people defined in any way whatsoever, like "people who are war criminals", may be racist!

Junkyard Tom

Deleted User wrote: »

Um, I meant people in the sense of the people of a nation or ethnic group

So let's return to your original attempt at moral equivocation.

Originally Posted by Deleted User
Sinn Fein can do racist too, if they don't perceive someone is as Irish and Nationalist as they are you'll hear people like Martin McGuinness haul out their favourite "West Brit" reference as a slur.

Aside from your statement being a sweeping generalisation (there are plenty of Irish Nationalists who are no fans of SF) to what race do 'West Brits' belong?

Junkyard Cat

Junkyard Cat wrote: »

So let's return to your original attempt at moral equivocation.

Aside from your statement being a sweeping generalisation (there are plenty of Irish Nationalists who are no fans of SF) to what race do 'West Brits' belong?

Much of what is accepted as racism isn't actually based on a strict definition of race.

For example, anti Irish sentiment is often labelled racism, even if you would object and say we are not a race but a people or a nation. If someone portrays the Irish as drunk or stupid, I think it racist, you may disagree. And similarly when someone says that a person is deserving of contempt because they are a "Brit" (which is the root if the slur, the west merely denotes that they are a "Brit" based here) I think it is racist. Again, you may not agree.

Junkyard Tom

Deleted User wrote: »

If someone portrays the Irish as drunk or stupid, I think it racist

I would call that 'xenophobic' officially and 'being a dickhead' in the vernacular.

Deleted User wrote: »

And similarly when someone says that a person is deserving of contempt because they are a "Brit"

As above, I would describe that as 'xenophobic' technically or 'being a dickhead' in conversation.

which is the root if the slur

No it isn't. The primary criteria for being a 'West Brit', which itself is a rather lazy term, would be being Irish.

the west merely denotes that they are a "Brit" based here

No, it alludes to Irish people that consider Irish culture as inferior to British and would be critical of Irish rebellion against British rule in Ireland (among other factors).

I think it is racist.

It's demonstrably not racist in any way which returns us to my original point that your attempt at moral equivocation doesn't stand up.

Nodin

Deleted User wrote: »

"As usual"? I don't think I have ever made this point before!

Using any people as the basis of an expression of contempt is at least pejorative and may be racist. Similarly many Irish people regard defining stupidity by reference to the Irish (as in "that's so Irish" or "thick Mick") as at least offensive and possibly racist, or not worth defending either way.

Fine Gael are not a race.

MadsL

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*reads article*

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Junkyard Cat

Junkyard Cat wrote: »

I would call that 'xenophobic' officially and 'being a dickhead' in the vernacular.

As above, I would describe that as 'xenophobic' technically or 'being a dickhead' in conversation.

No it isn't. The primary criteria for being a 'West Brit', which itself is a rather lazy term, would be being Irish.

Can an a Irish person be xenophobic about Irish people?

One can of course be racist about Irish people.

Either way, I have doubts whether it can be xenophobia, you doubt it is racist, we agree that it is offensive and pejorative, it's hardly a huge difference.