Buying 1970 build house in need of renovation

Angelita

Hi,

I'm considering buying a semi-detached cavity wall house which was built in 1970. It's BER D2 but it seems they've done little to help their BER rating with a bare hot water tank.

It's in need of both energy and comestic work and my starting budget would be around €25k. I would see myself putting the money into the energy side and working on the cosmetic over the years.

It currently has a garage which takes up part of the ground floor and I would eventually turn this into a living space. I'm concerned as to the level of heat this lets out at the moment.

The floor space including garage is about 1200 Sq Ft.

The windows are PVC double glazed - old but possible not a big problem. There doesn't seem to be a need for underpinning.

The first things I would consider include:
- Cavity wall insulation
- Attic insulation
- Replace gas boiler
- Replace cistern and controls
- Replace main bathroom

If there was any money left over I'd look into adding an ensuite, redoing flooring and paint, kitchen etc.

How much would I be able to get done initially on my budget of €25k?

Also (possibly a dumb question), who do I get in to plan this or come up with costs? An architect or builder?

Strolling Bones

Start with an air fan test to find air leakages. Cost about 5-700 Eu. Using that prepare a snag / defect list to seal the larger gaps expected to be around windows, skirtings and where internal drain pipes go trough the external walls. Recessed light fittings are a curse for air leakage so if you have them count on replacing with surface mounted fittings and repair the holes left in the plasterboard ceilings.

For safety better expect to carry out some electrical upgrade works - especially earthing. Then add mains wired not battery powered smoke heat and carbon momnxide detectors.

If you know a good honest builder and can trust them completely - go ahead. If not better to find an architect.

sky6

If it's a 70s built house then it's most likely a Cavity Block Wall and not a Cavity Wall. The difference being that the Cavity Wall has an open Cavity between the inner and outer leafs of the Wall. Cavity Block is not really suitable for filling with Insulation. You might want to consider External Insulation.
if you get a Combination Boiler then you can do away with the Copper Cylinder. By all means Insulate the Attic but I'd also consider removing some of the Ceilings and replace them with 50 or 60mm insulated Boards.
As said have the Electrics checked and re certified this will give you peace of mind and updated certification for the Insurance company. I'd also get a House Alarm fitted for the same reasons.
You could get a quantity surveyor to quantify the works then get several quotes before choosing a contractor to carry out the works. Good luck with it.

Angelita

Thanks for the replies so far. I never heard of the fan test but will definitely consider it.

The house is cavity wall. I asked the agent 3 times now just to be sure. Wouldn't touch a cavity block house. From my research online it seems to be built by a company which supplied flat pack timber frames which were then filled in with cavity wall. It was a popular thing in this area in the late 1960's and the house was built in 1970.

How much would it cost to replace the ceilings? It would kill two birds there by also getting rid of the stippled-effect ceilings. Everything in this house is 70s from the ceilings to the carpets. I'll have to learn to embrace it until I get the finances for the cosmetic work.

Strolling Bones

Set up is like this.



While the fan is running a smoke gun is used to detect leaks

sky6

I'd get an Engineer to check or better still get the Agent to prove that it's an open Cavity Wall. I'm aware of similar type homes built in the 70s but they were filled with Fibreglass.

As to the Ceilings it really depends on how many boards are needed for each room. On average as a guide , 300 to 400 per room for Boards + Skimming and labour. The more rooms economics of scale will apply.

Dudda

I'd get confirmation in writing on the cavity wall from the agent. I'd definitely insulate the attic as that's relatively cheap and you can do it yourself to save costs if you require. I'd also do the insulated ceiling discussed above. A ceiling is where most heat is lost as heat rises. Be sure to insulate and seal around whatever access hatch you have going into the ceiling. This is often forgot.

If replacing the ceiling the lights will have to be adjusted / temporarily moved and this is a good time to install more efficient LED or newer lights if you want along with smoke alarms and wiring for an intruder alarm if you live in an area that needs it. If you don't wire for them now you could end up with exposed wall mounted wires in a few years when doing more work.

Look into grants as I think you can get tax grants for upgrade works that improve the energy efficiency of a house which could help pay for pumping the cavity with insulation and the attic insulation.

Angelita

I have no idea what a fiberglass fill is but the agent has shown me where the neighbour pumped it's cavities. I assume that's only possible with a cavity wall. Same type of house in the same estate.

At €400 a room, I'd definitely consider that. Never would have thought it was possible until it was mentioned. Thanks.

As for the lights. They are just your normal hanging bulb. I assume the energy usage depends on the bulbs I put in them.

With the various grants and BER incentives I'd say I'd be able to get up to €5,000 back over the course of two years. Seen as I'll have to come up with the money initially; the grants can go towards the cosmetic side later on.

By the sounds of the replies it's looking like I could do a lot on the energy of the house with a 25k budget. I have seen a county councile website estimating the cost of cavity and attic insulation as €850 each. I would have thought it a lot more for cavity and less for attic. They also estimated a replacement boiler and tank as €2,500. Are these right?

SemperFidelis

Hi, I bought a 70s house two years ago. Hadn't been touched since the 70s.

we were able to check for cavity in the attic there's usually gaps or holes where the roof meets the gable end. Was also able to measure the width which is useful for pricing cavity fill insulation.

We got the cavity pumped and vents put in for 1200.
New oil boiler and zoned controls etc for about 4000
Solar tubes and new cylinder for about 4000
SEAI grants of 2000

I did the attic insulation myself about €350 for 18 rolls. Big attic.

We also replaced Windows and our ber went from E2 to b3

Check out the seai site for Grant information and also read the information for contractors, theres some useful information in there.

Angelita

Wow it didn't cost you much at all. I just got extremely hopefull reading your reply.

Do you mind me asking how much it cost to replace the windows? You managed to get there for 8K plus windows. At that rate I could spend some of my budget on the cosmetic side.

Strolling Bones

Prioritize

1. elec safety - earthing - smoke alerams - carbon monoxide alarms
2. air tightness - find and stop all leaks
3. boiler - min 90% efficeicy
4. insulation - walls / attic / floor ( it timber ground floor. If concrete leave as is )
5. windows - if you can afford
6. bathroom - if you can afford / you are worth it
7. renewbles ( solar panels ) last behind everything else.

SemperFidelis

I’d agree with getting electrics checked and corrected if necessary. We were delayed moving in due to some re-wiring.

Smoke and carbon monoxide detectors shouldn’t cost more than a few hundred.



It’s also a good time to improve air tightness but make sure there’s sufficient ventilation. When we got the cavity pumped we had to get wall vents in each room.



We did the solar at the same time as the boiler because they are linked and messy and it was cheaper to get both done at the same time. Solar price included the new 300l insulated cylinder.



Windows was 5500 for 3 double 5 triple and a new door, all triple was 6000. We’re in a bungalow so a two story might cost a bit more in labour.



While looking for the windows quote I found one for attic insulation and it was 1350 so I saved a bit by doing myself.

Msrob

Interested in this as currently living in something similar and thinking about offering to take it off landlords hands needs electrical overhaul and insulation new windows etc. as far as I no this is timber framed or more modular home wud I b wasting my money? Love the area been living here 7 years was thinking about offering €50k is that an insult? Needs a lot of work done

Angelita

Thanks for the replies.

By the sounds of it I'd be safe with 20k.

I agree that renewable energy would be last on the list but I'll check the price difference as I go to see if it can be included. In all cases I'm going to make sure any of the improvements now won't mean wasted cost when I do further improvements down the line like garage conversion or solar heating.

The bathroom might take priority over windows and solar panels. As it is at the moment I'd leave it dirtier than when I went in.

@Msrob: I think a house that sells for 50k would require a 6 figure investment

Msrob

Angelita wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.

By the sounds of it I'd be safe with 20k.

I agree that renewable energy would be last on the list but I'll check the price difference as I go to see if it can be included. In all cases I'm going to make sure any of the improvements now won't mean wasted cost when I do further improvements down the line like garage conversion or solar heating.

The bathroom might take priority over windows and solar panels. As it is at the moment I'd leave it dirtier than when I went in.

@Msrob: I think a house that sells for 50k would require a 6 figure investment

We're living in the sticks ☺️ Iv checked similar on daft and there 90k with land 6 figure too scary! Thanks 😂 best of luck with ur house!

JonathonS

Hi Angelita,

I hope you won't mind me butting in with a Q. It relates to the posts above by S Bones and S Fidelis.

On the one hand we are told to find and seal all air leaks (I have read posts about how to seal keyholes in doors!). On the other hand we are told we need air vents in every room.

Maybe someone can help explain? On the face of it these two pieces of advice look mutually exclusive.

Apologies again and good luck with your project.

Strolling Bones

All houses must be ventilated to avoid excess condensation , mould and consequent chest ailments.

A typical 1970s house tends to be over ventilated by the provision of (must have) hole in wall vents together with a multitude of leaks. If replacing window one can be presented with an option to have sloted vents inereted into the window frame heads- often NOT providing enough ventilation so be careful there.

So we must for health and safetys sake accept that we have to lose some heat to ventilation. In the case of the 1970s house - through the hole in wall vents. But we should cut out the leaks. Sealing keyholes in doors seem OTT in the case of Angelita house however.