Sale Fell through - Where do I stand now..?

UsBus

Not sure if this is more property related or a legal question but here goes...

I'm in the process of selling my house. The purchasers solicitors have had contracts for the last few weeks with the purchasers mad to get moved in. The purchasers solicitors had communicated that everything is signed and they had requested one document before they would return contracts.
There was a delay on my side due to my solicitor hoping the matter would go away and she would not have to locate the outstanding document.
Anyway, all was provided to the purchasers solicitors last week and I was due to call in and sign contracts yesterday when my solicitor contacted me to say she had received an email from the purchasers solicitors stating the purchasers would not be proceeding with the sale. No reason was given, just that contracts would be returned. I should say there is no issue with the document that was supplied, it seem the buyers have pulled out for another reason.

I know the sale is now dead in the water as there is no point flogging a dead horse...
My question is this... If they have signed a legal contract, is there a question over the deposit they have paid to the auctioneer...??

Addle

It depends on the wording in the contract.

zagmund

As Addle says, it all depends on the wording in the contract. This is really something your solicitor should have discussed with you - they would have written/reviewed the contract so they are the ones who should know.

z

jon1981

If the signed contract has not been returned to the vendor solicitor, can't they just rip it up? What are you hoping for to happen OP? As far as I understand, people are still free to back out up until contracts are signed and returned.

UsBus

Well, the buyers requested us to be out last week.. we agreed on 2 weeks to get moved. i have removal company booked in for next week with utilities all ready to move. we are packed ready to go and they just seem to have decided to pull out. They led us to believe all along that they couldnt get in fast enough.
I just think there should be some comeback given they held onto signed contracts for so long and have left us hanging..they have signed a legal document in the presence of a solicitor.

Zillah

Surely the contract isn't finalised until you sign it too? I'm pretty sure you have no more hold over them than you do me.

jon1981

Their solicitor works for them, "oh sorry I thought it was signed...blah blah ...woops it got shredded! "

Sorry for making light of it, but that's the rules of the game, it works both ways. I got done with a house as a buyer, paid solicitors fees, surveyor and valuer and then the seller decides he didn't wanna sell. Hard luck me. It's not nice, but there is no redress of wrongs here.

what did your solicitor advise with respect to the "signed contract in the presence of their solicitor", did he/she think it's worth pursuing?

Guffy

Surely your solicitor is at fault. Delaying sending the document in the hope they would forget about it cause she was too lazy to dig it out.

Miaireland

gufc21 wrote: »

Surely your solicitor is at fault. Delaying sending the document in the hope they would forget about it cause she was too lazy to dig it out.

I would be having very serious words about this with my Solicitor. I would also want to see the email from the other Solicitor.

How do you know there was not issue with the certificate supplied. There maybe no issue with the actual document but their could be with the delay in it being given.

As others said in relation to deposit etc all this will depend on the contract, if it was signed and its exact wording.

jon1981

Zillah wrote: »

Surely the contract isn't finalised until you sign it too? I'm pretty sure you have no more hold over them than you do me.

I assumed the contract was already signed by the vendor and the buyers solictor had the vendor signed contract?

Zillah wrote: »

I just think there should be some comeback given they held onto signed contracts for so long and have left us hanging

OP have you signed the copy they have?

Rew

Contract has to be counter signed and a copy retuned before its binding so no come back. Id be pissed off with your solicitor.

UsBus

Yeh, my solicitor has ffd up in more ways than one.... and she knows it..

In hindsight, I should have never entertained discussing a closing date until contracts were available for me to sign.....but hey thats what you pay a solicitor for.... My comeback will come when I discuss my solicitors fee if and when I eventually sell.
She has basically gone out of her way to f++k up the sale with her carry on....

zagmund

I've heard variations on this on a number of occasions. It seems to be one of the blind spots for vendors in house sales and it's a tremendous pity that this isn't made more clear to vendors by the professionals advising them.

You would expect that "Sale agreed" meant that some sort of contract was in place which said "A intends selling their house to B. B intends buying the house from A. A will take the house off the market so that paperwork can be completed. In recognition of this fact B is putting €15,000 on deposit with As solicitor and A is putting €15,000 on deposit with As solicitor. If B pulls out, then A keeps their €15,000. If A pulls out then B keeps their €15,000. In other words the penalty for rolling back is €15,000."

Instead it's along the lines of "As solicitor will charge them money, Bs solicitor will charge them money, unseen letters and communications will be exchanged between the solicitors but there's no contract of any shape or form in place, so no actual sale is agreed by anyone until the day the money is transferred and the keys are handed over."

In other words "sale agreed" means nothing unless your solicitor gets the other side (and you) to sign something similar to the wording above where there is an actual monetary penalty.

I know of people who have taken their house off the market, withdrawn the ads, moved their furniture into storage, etc . . . and been left high and dry 4 or 6 months later in an empty house when the vendor changed their mind.

The thing is that both vendor and buyer are entitled to change their mind - circumstances change - but what's not made clear enough to vendors is that unless it's explicitly spelled out in a signed contract then there's no penalty for this. This should be no different than putting down a deposit on a car or a holiday or whatever . . . the agent takes it off the market, puts a little sticker on it saying "deposit paid" and you have so much time to pay the balance. If you pull out you lose your deposit, just like everything else. Except with houses, there is often no deposit.

z

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UsBus wrote: »

Yeh, my solicitor has ffd up in more ways than one.... and she knows it..

In hindsight, I should have never entertained discussing a closing date until contracts were available for me to sign.....but hey thats what you pay a solicitor for.... My comeback will come when I discuss my solicitors fee if and when I eventually sell.
She has basically gone out of her way to f++k up the sale with her carry on....

Get another solicitor for next time and don't pay her anything now.

the_syco

UsBus wrote: »

There was a delay on my side due to my solicitor hoping the matter would go away and she would not have to locate the outstanding document.
Anyway, all was provided to the purchasers solicitors last week and I was due to call in and sign contracts yesterday when my solicitor contacted me to say she had received an email from the purchasers solicitors stating the purchasers would not be proceeding with the sale.

Seems your solicitors attitude of "it'll go away" f**ked you over, and cost you the sale. I'd have words with the solicitor, tbh!

Guffy

the_syco wrote: »

Seems your solicitors attitude of "it'll go away" f**ked you over, and cost you the sale. I'd have words with the solicitor, tbh!

You may need documentation fir her ****ing up, ie. Not forwarding on the required document. You say you don't have a reason for the sale falling through, if she came after you for her fee then can you prove it was her fault?

spaceHopper

Go talk to the EA and see if there is something that can be done, you may have to knock a few grand off the price. At the end of the the day it's your side's fault for any delays that may have resulted in this. But it could simply be that they got cold feet. The deposit healed by the EA is refundable.

Matteroffact

It is not a done deal until both parties have signed the contract. The purchaser must have found a better deal elsewhere, but chin up OP you might sell your house again for a better price as the house prices have increased a bit since.

seamus

The buyer's solicitor will have advised them not to sign until final mortgage approval came through. If they were very eager to purchase and then suddenly pulled the plug, I'd say they were turned down by the bank.

gaius c

seamus wrote: »

The buyer's solicitor will have advised them not to sign until final mortgage approval came through. If they were very eager to purchase and then suddenly pulled the plug, I'd say they were turned down by the bank.

Or they bid on multiple properties and the one they really wanted came up.

the_syco

seamus wrote: »

The buyer's solicitor will have advised them not to sign until final mortgage approval came through. If they were very eager to purchase and then suddenly pulled the plug, I'd say they were turned down by the bank.

I'd agree. OP, best make sure you have all the documentation ready next time around.

zagmund

the_syco wrote: »

I'd agree. OP, best make sure you have all the documentation ready next time around.

The problem is though, that vendors (Joe Public, essentially) have no idea what "all the documentation" is, so they can't get it ready. I'm sure there's a good reason for it, but solicitors & the banks seem to excel in looking for documents that the other sides solicitors and banks don't have ready.

It is all a bit baffling - surely the vendors solicitor knows there can only be X documents and should have them ready (or at least flagged up as possibly required) before the sale process starts. That way things so smoothly for everyone.

z

Carawaystick

zagmund wrote: »

Instead it's along the lines of "As solicitor will charge them money, Bs solicitor will charge them money, unseen letters and communications will be exchanged between the solicitors but there's no contract of any shape or form in place, so no actual sale is agreed by anyone until the day the money is transferred and the keys are handed over."

The sale is agreed when both parties have signed contracts from the counterparties, with no exclusion points in the contract

the_syco

zagmund wrote: »

The problem is though, that vendors (Joe Public, essentially) have no idea what "all the documentation" is, so they can't get it ready.

The OP is the vendor, and their solicitor hoped the problem would go away. This to me means that they may have known of the problem beforehand, and had hoped that it would not have come up.

Sala

All correspondence usually has something along the lines of "..., and no contract shall exist, or be deemed to exist, until contracts are signed, exchanged and the full deposit paid". In advance of this there is no contract and both sides can pull out, provided that you didn't come to an agreement to the contrary