Calves that won't suck after being born...

Phantasos

Hi all,

Just interested in hearing your thoughts on this one - we've had 4/5 calves this year that have been very frustrating. They are birthed fine and then don't seem to bother wanting to suck their mother.

We've had a few that we've literally put the teat in their mouth and they stand there, motionless. After a few days they seem to eventually cop on, but it has been incredibly frustrating putting cows in the crush and hand-feeding stupid calves.

Have we just had a bad run of "dumb" calves, or is this indicative of a lack of a certain vitamin/mineral? We're scratching our heads over the lack of natural instinct to suckle.

tanko

Are they charolais calves, they can be pretty dopey to start with. Have you been giving the cows a good pre Calver mineral?

onyerbikepat

I find it very frustrating when this happens especially when you want them to suck the minute they are born. You might be rushing to get to work or bed or whatever. How long are they going without drinking? Teagasc etc are always telling us to get them drinking in the first 2 hours but the calf might not be hungry enough. I often wrestled with a newborn calf like you said, putting the teat into the mouth and milking a bit etc but still no good. Give up then and as soon as I turn my back they are drinking away.

Are you feeding cows minerals pre-calving? If not, then maybe try this. At least it would rule our minerals.

Count Mondego

Change bull last year? Years ago when we had sheep, changed ram one year. The lambs the following spring were like that, wouldn't suck for a few days. Thankfully this was the last straw and we got rid of the while lot after that. Enjoyed farming more since.

Limestone Cowboy

Phantasos wrote: »

Hi all,

Just interested in hearing your thoughts on this one - we've had 4/5 calves this year that have been very frustrating. They are birthed fine and then don't seem to bother wanting to suck their mother.

We've had a few that we've literally put the teat in their mouth and they stand there, motionless. After a few days they seem to eventually cop on, but it has been incredibly frustrating putting cows in the crush and hand-feeding stupid calves.

Have we just had a bad run of "dumb" calves, or is this indicative of a lack of a certain vitamin/mineral? We're scratching our heads over the lack of natural instinct to suckle.

Are they completely lacking a sucking instinct or is it just the action of their tounge. If it's the latter it could be a selenium deficency. You can get an appetite stimulant off your vets aswell but I never found it to be too effective.

Mad4simmental

Lacking Iodine? Have ye many left to calve? Try the topical iodine on the cows or iodine into their water.

whelan2

Phantasos wrote: »

Hi all,

Just interested in hearing your thoughts on this one - we've had 4/5 calves this year that have been very frustrating. They are birthed fine and then don't seem to bother wanting to suck their mother.

We've had a few that we've literally put the teat in their mouth and they stand there, motionless. After a few days they seem to eventually cop on, but it has been incredibly frustrating putting cows in the crush and hand-feeding stupid calves.

Have we just had a bad run of "dumb" calves, or is this indicative of a lack of a certain vitamin/mineral? We're scratching our heads over the lack of natural instinct to suckle.

had the same this year too, we put the cow down crush milk her into a bottle with teat on it, put honey on the teat, try and get calf to suck if it doesnt suck we stomach tube it. Also give a mid day feed of a lectade, after a few days it will suck, totally time consuming. Have given the vitasel but dont think it did anything, strange as this is only with the sucklers, milkers are fine

Dickie10

had this 2 years ago, we found Lifeline minerals in powder form on silage a great job. different calves after that, also limosouin clves seem more lively

Phantasos

They're limousin calves (AI calves by the way, varied bulls) and the cows have pre-calver licks under their heads all the time. With regards giving them time after calving - we do, but they will either walk around the cow aimlessly or stay lying down like fools.

We're trying slow release mineral bullets/tablets on the cows to see if they make a difference for the later calvers. Might just be a run of bad luck.

_Brian

We had this after changing Bull years ago. PB Ch bull but his calves were dopey and ready to die from the minute they hit the ground.
It's pure torture to work with.

Injection from vet is a good job toget them sucking but it is hard work.

Charliebull

i personally think there is to much messing with them

would you suck a bottle someone prised into your mouth and tried to force

get the calf up and about, stick ur finger in his gob, if he moves his tongue around ur finger, then leave him be, he will suck himself or if you want hold the teet to his mouth and let him at it himself then fine

if he prises his mouth shut and bites down on your finger then you are in bother and need to get the injection, anything else is punishment on man and beast

i remember a large suckler farmer once telling us on a farm walk, a calf wont die initially from hunger and you know what he is right

good pre calver minerals and rolled oats, solves a lot of issues

newholland mad

had the same for years and tried everything, buckets, changing bull, hay, silage. the last 3 years we give them animax boluses and ever since havent had one lazy calf, dont even bother watching to make sure they suck any more, 10 mins after they stand up theyr off. They still have access to buckets too.

whelan2

Charliebull wrote: »

i personally think there is to much messing with them

would you suck a bottle someone prised into your mouth and tried to force

get the calf up and about, stick ur finger in his gob, if he moves his tongue around ur finger, then leave him be, he will suck himself or if you want hold the teet to his mouth and let him at it himself then fine

if he prises his mouth shut and bites down on your finger then you are in bother and need to get the injection, anything else is punishment on man and beast

i remember a large suckler farmer once telling us on a farm walk, a calf wont die initially from hunger and you know what he is right

good pre calver minerals and rolled oats, solves a lot of issues

what about the golden rule of getting biestings in to them asap after birth?

Connemara Farmer

whelan2 wrote: »

what about the golden rule of getting biestings in to them asap after birth?

Milk cow, tube calf, go to bed/do jobs, check on calf again later to see if it's sucking itself?

valtraman

I was talking to a friend the other day who had the same problem turned out to be selenium deficiency ,I think an injection gave rapid response to calves but for longer term success it might be best to get bloods done for minerals now before grass and you will know how to treat the cows for next year

onyerbikepat

If you have a calving camera, you can set to record and check later to see if they drink.

A lot of what you're saying is true Charliebull, but I'd rather spend the 30 mins messing with a newborn than spend 10 days tubing them twice a day with electrolyte. Less messing in the long-run.

joejobrien

Have found itthis propblem in FR calves too. Alot of talk about minerals. However, Blood checked but no definite answer, all well in ranges for major and minor elements.
Contact personnel both here , Teagasc, UK and the USA.
Finally the only answer that was provides was STRESS....omg!
When the professionals dont have an answer , stress is the rubbish bin for everything.
Still have the propblem but just getting on with it

Charliebull

onyerbikepat wrote: »

If you have a calving camera, you can set to record and check later to see if they drink.

A lot of what you're saying is true Charliebull, but I'd rather spend the 30 mins messing with a newborn than spend 10 days tubing them twice a day with electrolyte. Less messing in the long-run.

True pat, but leave them be for a couple hours, check the camera, you will always know a calf that will suck himself, just let nature be

Charliebull

whelan2 wrote: »

what about the golden rule of getting biestings in to them asap after birth?

Yes but give them a couple hours to manage it themselves, if not then intervene

Mad4simmental

Sumone said here befoure and it's true, hunger is the best sauce.

whelan2

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Sumone said here befoure and it's true, hunger is the best sauce.

A lifeaid sachet will give them a hunger while also keeping them hydrated

Count Mondego

Charliebull wrote: »

Yes but give them a couple hours to manage it themselves, if not then intervene

I agree. We used to always put the suckler cow in to the crush and hand milk 2 litres and bottle feed the calf to make sure the got the colostrum. This year we decided, fuxk it, see how they manage themselves. Surprise surprise they got on fine and no problems.

Genghis Cant

Does anybody else think that 2 l of beastings into a slip of a calf an hour old is a serious dose.

I would walk away from any calf that sucked a pint of beastings, and find that if they take a pint it's puts them in the humour for more!

whelan2

Genghis Cant wrote: »

Does anybody else think that 2 l of beastings into a slip of a calf an hour old is a serious dose.

I would walk away from any calf that sucked a pint of beastings, and find that if they take a pint it's puts them in the humour for more!

thing is though if they are sucking the cow you dont know how much they are getting

Kovu

I can see the reasoning behind a lot of the different ways people have of dealing with it. Have a sorta way we work ourselves.

If it's 5am and the calf has no interest in sucking and will barely suck a finger when stimulating the roof of his mouth then we'll just get half a litre or so of biestings into him, just to keep him going until morning. Often you'll find they will have a bit more energy and gumption to suck by 9am. If the cow has big bottle tits or a low bag, but the calf sorta wants to suck, I'd stand and help him latch on until he drinks as much as they want. There's no exact science to it but it's usually after half an hour that I decide both he & I have enough. (Nothing worse than a cow grating your face with her tongue in her exuberance)

Never have stomach tubed here so that's one reason we don't even try it. Also, limousins aren't that fond of being milked and I've had enough clatters on my arms.

Genghis Cant

whelan2 wrote: »

thing is though if they are sucking the cow you dont know how much they are getting

I should have clarified. I use a bucket with a tit on it, particularly at night or if id to go to work.
Sucking from the bucket I was talking about.

ellewood

tanko wrote: »

Are they charolais calves, they can be pretty dopey to start with. Have you been giving the cows a good pre Calver mineral?

Most if not all 'dopey' charolais calves are the farmers own fault
Through learning the hard way charolais are prone to white mucle disease lack of vit E and selium

Last few years pre calver with high levels of vit e+sel no 'dopey' calves

+1 on charliebull letting them to themselves jacked a calf yesterday eve not a big pull but cow had been arsing for a while and I wanted to get her sorted before night
Jacked calf shot of vitasel + vitamins walk away come back 2 hours later calf sucked cow cleaned all happy:D let out this morning to grass

_Brian

ellewood wrote: »

Most if not all 'dopey' charolais calves are the farmers own fault
Through learning the hard way charolais are prone to white mucle disease lack of vit E and selium

Last few years pre calver with high levels of vit e+sel no 'dopey' calves

+1 on charliebull letting them to themselves jacked a calf yesterday eve not a big pull but cow had been arsing for a while and I wanted to get her sorted before night
Jacked calf shot of vitasel + vitamins walk away come back 2 hours later calf sucked cow cleaned all happy:D let out this morning to grass

White Muscle Disease is some sickner,
two years ago we lost a stunning 400kg Ch heifer, no bother one day - next day her heart was ****ed and she just died

Vet says most Irish land is low in Silenium, then ours is also high in iron which blocks copper absorption. She recommended a bolus for all animals, keep them covered all year round. It really is the best spent €5, we've had such an improvement in overall animal health its been a revelation for us. When I think of the battles we had with dopey/slow calves and cows with retained cleanings - constant copper injections which I hate giving.

All Guard from Mayo Healthcare.
Local rep lends us the application gun.