Angryfiance

LegacyUser

Hi .
Ill try to keep this short and sweet. I am due to get married next year. The other day, I was upset with my partner over something he said in front of my friends. It was nt anything too serious, but I would nt meet up with them that often so felt a bit embarrassed as they mightn't know it was a joke.
Anyway I didn't say it to him until the next day, and when I did, he got defensive and said "I didn't say that etc.... or he didn't remember .
I was kind of nagging a bit and he picked up his shoe and went to throw it in a frustrated angry way but he did nt throw it just made the action..
I told him I don't ever want to see him doing that again , that it felt threatening.. is this normal behaviour during an argument.. even though he did nt throw it , is cause for concern?

tomwaterford

As in throw the shoe at you!!! :eek:


This is 100% not normal or anything approaching acceptable behaviour

bee06

Is this an isolated incident or does he get angry a lot?

LegacyUser

Hi , Thanks for your reply.
no he didn't throw , he made the action to do it not directly at me... just picked up and went to throw it but didn't,.. ?

LegacyUser

He has thrown a cushion before once not at me either and he toppled over a coffee table once with his foot (he had his foot on it and kinda kicked it).. This is over 5 years.. so I suppose 3 small outburst in over about 6 years..
? Thanks for your reply..

bee06

I personally wouldn't be worried. I've done isolated stupid things the odd time when I'm angry and I would think a lot of people have. If there isn't consistent anger issues where he's flying of the handle on a regular basis at small things I wouldn't be worried.

dori_dormer

Personally I would be worried. It's not a healthy way to deal with anger. Especially since I think what you were discussing wasn't very serious. Seems like a big over reaction. How has he dealt with other , bigger stresses in his life or relationship? That will tell you if it's isolated or usual. If he's dealt with other things fine then maybe not such a big red flag. Or is there possibly something else he's stressed about.

Things only get more stressful when you have kids etc so if he's like this over him denying a comment he made I'd hear alarm bells. I wouldn't be happy with even the slitest hint of violence even threatened like you said. It takes very little to progress to their partner

LegacyUser

dori_dormer wrote: »

Personally I would be worried. It's not a healthy way to deal with anger. Especially since I think what you were discussing wasn't very serious. Seems like a big over reaction. How has he dealt with other , bigger stresses in his life or relationship? That will tell you if it's isolated or usual. If he's dealt with other things fine then maybe not such a big red flag. Or is there possibly something else he's stressed about.

Thanks for all the replies.. again.. It did spook me a bit , but I know he would never hit me... just thinking longterm I would not want him doing that in front of children.. I have told him I don't want to see this again.. so I suppose I just have to keep an eye on it and if it becomes a problem he will have to talk to someone or I will have to make a decision ..

Lux23

Ok, most of the other posters here must be angels who never lose their temper, saying his behavior isn't healthy! He went to throw a shoe, but didn't actually do it. This means he was able to control his anger.

I would be more worried about why he got defensive and why you were so upset about something he obviously felt was a joke.

skallywag

I agree with the above poster.

He didn't throw the shoe in the end, and even if he had it was not going in the OP's direction in any case?

OP, I think that you are being hypersensitive and unreasonable.

ahnow

I don't think it's normal or healthy behaviour, yes people lose their tempers-everyone does-but there's a healthy way of dealing with it and an unhealthy way. I also think it was over something pretty small...that would worry me also.

Lux23

ahnow wrote: »

I don't think it's normal or healthy behaviour, yes people lose their tempers-everyone does-but there's a healthy way of dealing with it and an unhealthy way. I also think it was over something pretty small...that would worry me also.

If had thrown the shoe, he didn't throw the shoe. People's reactions can be widely different so I don't believe there is anything unhealthy about throwing a shoe or cushion around the room.

ahnow

Yes but the picking up of the shoe can be read as threatening and aggressive behaviour. Did the person pick it up to silence the other person in the argument?
You think that's normal, fair enough and that's your opinion. I don't, and have never had a partner, friend or family member behave in such a way in my presence and if a partner in particular were to behave like that around me, I would find it both aggressive and intimidating and I would be rethinking the whole situation for fear that it would escalate down the line

power pants

People have different views on what is and what isnt acceptible. Basically, you need to decide yourself regarding him.

Personally, I dont think it is particulalry great reaction from him but on the other hand it is hardly a terrible act either. In the 5 years you have been with him, the only incident I dont like is the coffe table one. As much as some people will not admit, losing your temper can happen and there was no threat of violence directed at you.

But as said, its not just the action but how it makes you feel that you need to think on. If you feel his temper is getting worse or that he might start getting violent/agrressive towards you, then you need to think very hard

Lux23

power pants wrote: »

But as said, its not just the action but how it makes you feel that you need to think on. If you feel his temper is getting worse or that he might start getting violent/agrressive towards you, then you need to think very hard

This is very true, OP if you felt threatened then you have to tell your partner that you won't tolerate that behavior.

freshpopcorn

What did he say that embarrassed you so much?

Zen65

power pants wrote: »

Personally, I dont think it is particulalry great reaction from him but on the other hand it is hardly a terrible act either.

....

As much as some people will not admit, losing your temper can happen and there was no threat of violence directed at you.

+1 to this.

Bear in mind that we only have one side of the story here.

Yes, it's not right to threaten a person no matter how angry you get, but getting frustrated is not uncommon. It sounds to me that, as the physical acts were never directed against you, that your fiancé is not actually being violent, he is merely frustrated at the manner in which the discussion / argument went and lacks the skill to articulate that frustration.

For some people, having an argument with a person who appears not to listen or cannot discuss a matter rationally is very frustrating, and that frustration can boil over into exasperation which may get expressed by slamming doors etc. This is not unusual in teenagers, for example. Perhaps your fiancé perceives you not to be listening to him during arguments?

You said in the OP that the issue was not anything too serious, and maybe he felt the same way about it, but if, for example, you continued to reprimand him for his actions over and above the level he felt was commensurate with the issue, or did not acknowledge his position (whether you agree with it or not) when he stated it, then this triggered an emotion of frustration in him which he expressed by a physical act.

Don't misunderstand me, please . . . . you are not responsible for his feelings, but you might empathise enough to understand that for many people it is possible that certain words or actions can trigger a response which is purely emotional. Maybe he is not mature enough to be able to control that, and hence he 'lashes out'. I see it as significant that he has never lashed out at you, or even (from your post) threatened to lash out at you.

I think the two of you should have a talk, when things are not heated between you, to explore what each of you feel during these arguments. It can help for you both to acknowledge the strength of each other's feelings when you are both in a good place, and then agree how to deal with those feelings when you are under highly emotional situations. Although it may sound corny, simply learning to say in the heat of an argument "I feel xxxx right now, when you do/say yyy". You might be amazed at how quickly this diffuses an otherwise heated row.

Be at peace,

Z

anncoates

Think what always strikes me about this topic is that people are very quick to castigate traditional aggression, for want of a better word. Not obviously aggression directed at a person, but just occasional stuff like throwing something or slamming a door or whatever in frustration. And yet another kind of aggression, the passive type, where somebody ignores or 'silent treatments' somebody is never put on the same level and it's often just as effective in undermining and belittling somebody as somebody slamming a door or throwing a cushion or whatever (again in no way talking about physical aggression aimed directly at people). In fact, the silent treatment type aggression is often very effective in triggering the trivial physical stuff mentioned, in pure frustration.

Not equating this with the OP, or excusing anything, just an observation.

zeffabelli

Honestly this doesn't seem like a big deal. If you not pick and nag a lot people are going to get fed up and lose it.

You weren't hearing him.

Depends on the wider context of whether you comb through everything he says or if you accept his explanations.

No one can evaluate the incident in isolation.

LegacyUser

Thanks again for all the replies. Someone asked what he said that embarrassed me, I don't want to say for confidentiality reasons, it was just something that I felt was inappropriate in front of people we don't see very often. It was in relation to money.
I can see from the answers here some people think its unacceptable and other think it is.. I can take it on board that I wasn't listen , but I did feel he was making the action of throwing the shoe AT me, even thought he didn't.
I have told him I am not tolerating this again, and I don't want to see it happening ever. So it s up to him, I will pay more attention to the way I nag.
The episode with the coffee table a few years ago was worse , because our pets were there and although it may sound silly , I was thinking he scared them and that if there were children there it would be the same.
Anyway , thanks again for all the replies, it s something I am going to keep an eye on. He is generally very laid back and is never violent , but it just spooked me a bit, I suppose.

Pawwed Rig

It is a minor incident and no cause for concern. The bigger cause for concern is why are you worried about minior incidents like this and the comment he made in front of your friends. Just relax and enjoy each others company rather than over analyse every action and behaviour.

anncoates

Isthisaredflag wrote: »

I have told him I am not tolerating this again, and I don't want to see it happening ever.

That's not exactly dialogue is it?

If I felt somebody wasn't listening to me and it caused me to express temper (in a non-direct way) and then I was ordered never to do it again, it would just compound it, to be honest.

zeffabelli

Isthisaredflag wrote: »

Thanks again for all the replies. Someone asked what he said that embarrassed me, I don't want to say for confidentiality reasons, it was just something that I felt was inappropriate in front of people we don't see very often. It was in relation to money.
I can see from the answers here some people think its unacceptable and other think it is.. I can take it on board that I wasn't listen , but I did feel he was making the action of throwing the shoe AT me, even thought he didn't.
I have told him I am not tolerating this again, and I don't want to see it happening ever. So it s up to him, I will pay more attention to the way I nag.
The episode with the coffee table a few years ago was worse , because our pets were there and although it may sound silly , I was thinking he scared them and that if there were children there it would be the same.
Anyway , thanks again for all the replies, it s something I am going to keep an eye on. He is generally very laid back and is never violent , but it just spooked me a bit, I suppose.

You are not his mother! You can't order him around....

Seriously, throwing a shoe is not a biggie.

I would feel really oppressed by you and probably end up exploding all over the place.

You are not respecting his autonomy. You are not listening to him. Do you know the biggest anger management issue is PHONE RAGE? You know why....it's because when people are not being heard, they get really mad.

THere is a taboo in this culture on anger. And another poster mentioned something similar....

It's always the person who lights the match who gets the blame...but 90% of the time another person is laying down the gasoline.

Throwing a shoe...honestly is not an abnormal reaction to being nagged to death and not being heard.

And you are worrying about imaginary children....???

m'lady

She said their pets were there who were scared and she was thinking what if it was children there that it would have been the same... A bit different to worrying about 'imaginary children' in fairness.

OP I do think you come across as a bit bossy and mother-like, and I think sometimes there's a way of asking people not to do something again, which doesn't involve telling them you won't tolerate it again etc. A quiet word explaining that it embarrassed you and asking him not to do it again might have been better?

I wouldn't appreciate my partner picking up a shoe as if to throw it, and neither would he if I did it, there's no need for it and personally I don't care how frustrated he was- its not on.

zeffabelli

m'lady wrote: »

She said their pets were there who were scared and she was thinking what if it was children there that it would have been the same... A bit different to worrying about 'imaginary children' in fairness.

.

No. She did not say they were scared. She was thinking they might be scared but offered no 'objective' manifestations of such fear...simply projected with speculation and then imagined children who don't exist yet.

Seriously, this is not rational discernment.

m'lady

What she said was that she was thinking that he had scared them and if there were children there it would have been the same? Now how I read that was that he scared the pets and it there were children it would have been the same? Perhaps I'm wrong, and maybe the OP can clarify that.

Neyite

Hmmm, I'm usually one of the posters who is quick to spot red flags for potential DV. But I'm not seeing it in your post OP. Sorry.

I have told him I am not tolerating this again, and I don't want to see it happening ever. So it s up to him, I will pay more attention to the way I nag.

Ok, so you've told him that you want his behaviour to change, but only giving the briefest of glances to your behaviour? Why not? Why do you need to nag anyone at all? And if you admit that you need to work on the way you nag him, then you are admitting that firstly a) you nag him and b) even by your standards, you think its a bit over the top. Is it fair to say you both went too far in the row?

Domestic abuse takes many forms - verbal abuse is far more prevalent and under reported. If you take it from your argument that his action with the shoe was physically abusive, then equally, your nagging then could only be classed as verbally abusive. Neither of which are acceptable in a relationship.

Maybe this could be an opportunity to find a healthier way of resolving conflict -talk about your concerns, but also listen to his, and take them on board too. Then find a method of arguing that remains respectful and is aimed at resolving the issue rather than say, blaming it on someone.

zeffabelli

Neyite wrote: »

Hmmm, I'm usually one of the posters who is quick to spot red flags for potential DV. But I'm not seeing it in your post OP. Sorry.



Ok, so you've told him that you want his behaviour to change, but only giving the briefest of glances to your behaviour? Why not? Why do you need to nag anyone at all? And if you admit that you need to work on the way you nag him, then you are admitting that firstly a) you nag him and b) even by your standards, you think its a bit over the top. Is it fair to say you both went too far in the row?

Domestic abuse takes many forms - verbal abuse is far more prevalent and under reported. If you take it from your argument that his action with the shoe was physically abusive, then equally, your nagging then could only be classed as verbally abusive. Neither of which are acceptable in a relationship.

Maybe this could be an opportunity to find a healthier way of resolving conflict -talk about your concerns, but also listen to his, and take them on board too. Then find a method of arguing that remains respectful and is aimed at resolving the issue rather than say, blaming it on someone.

Honestly how could throwing a shoe be physically abusive, it wasnt aimed at her, he didnt actually throw it, there were no physical consequences to it.

Equally nagging is not emotional abuse, it is annoying yes, but not abusive.

Calling everything and everyone abusive is in itself abusive.

You are hardly going to call the cops over a shoe? A shoe that didnt even get thrown.

Neyite

zeffabelli wrote: »

Honestly how could throwing a shoe be physically abusive, it wasnt aimed at her, he didnt actually throw it, there were no physical consequences to it.

Equally nagging is not emotional abuse, it is annoying yes, but not abusive.

Calling everything and everyone abusive is in itself abusive.

You are hardly going to call the cops over a shoe? A shoe that didnt even get thrown.

Err.. that's my point?

IF she views the shoe as 'physical' abuse, then by that same logic, the nagging should fall under 'verbal' abuse by the same criterion. But neither are actual abuse imo. This argument to me seems to be simply a case of two people not communicating effectively and getting frustrated.

zeffabelli

Neyite wrote: »

Err.. that's my point?

IF she views the shoe as 'physical' abuse, then by that same logic, the nagging should fall under 'verbal' abuse by the same criterion. But neither are actual abuse imo. This argument to me seems to be simply a case of two people not communicating effectively and getting frustrated.

The problem with the abuse label is that consensual reality has flown the coop.

The whole description of thinking the animals might be scared and then wondering about the children taht don't exist yet, without any notice of actual manifestations- this is trying to paint a picture of an animal and child abuser when no objectivive signs were alluded to. This to me is far more dangerous than any shoe flying across the room.

Hypersensitivity and lack of discernment are as tyrannical as physical or emotional bullying.

And as is the case of 90% of domestic quarrels it's bi -directional.

anncoates

Without being overly dramatic about it, a lot of the time it's actually a conflict tactic in lieu of communication, as it were.

Person A does the not communicating/not listening/silent treatment thing.

Person B loses the rag in frustration and does something - admittedly stupid but not directly violent - like throw a shoe across the room or slam a door.

Person A can then safely dismiss person B as intimidating/bad tempered - even potentially dangerous - and thus "win" the argument without addressing the underlying dynamics.

Zen65

Isthisaredflag? wrote: »

no he didn't throw , he made the action to do it not directly at me... just picked up and went to throw it but didn't,.. ?

Isthisaredflag wrote: »

. . . but I did feel he was making the action of throwing the shoe AT me, even thought he didn't.

Please don't think that I'm trying to pick holes in your position OP, but I'm seeing some conflicting versions of what happened in your telling of the story, and it makes me wonder to what extent you are potentially revisiting and revising history. When you began to debate the issue of what your fiancé had said the previous day is it possible that you had edited the event in your own mind before the argument started?

I suggested to you in my earlier post that you need to talk about your feelings with your partner. Let me now offer an additional bit of advice (as a man that has been married to the same woman for almost 30 years) . . . .

If your partner does or says something to upset you, deal with it immediately or within a few hours at most. If you don't then it's best to let it go . . revisiting yesterday's conversation is a bad habit and is always likely to be perceived as 'nagging'.

Be at peace,

Z

emo72

Couples will argue, life isn't that smooth. Everyone argues, and looses their temper. Just asking for someone to not lose their temper again, that really isn't going to work. When I lose my temper voices get raised, I once broke a remote control an argument over the telly. I don't think that abuse. My missus slags me over breaking it. That's abuse!

zeffabelli

anncoates wrote: »

Without being overly dramatic about it, a lot of the time it's actually a conflict tactic in lieu of communication, as it were.

Person A does the not communicating/not listening/silent treatment thing.

Person B loses the rag in frustration and does something - admittedly stupid but not directly violent - like throw a shoe across the room or slam a door.

Person A can then safely dismiss person B as intimidating/bad tempered - even potentially dangerous - and thus "win" the argument without addressing the underlying dynamics.

Person A also gets to continue with passive aggressive abuse because person A does not have to take any responsibility for it...leading to more denial which leads then to more anger in person B.

The person who does not know they are angry is far more dangerous than the person who does.

Thing is person B here didnt actually even throw the shoe.... and somehow he is an animal and potential child abuser. OPs boyfriend should scadadattle.

LegacyUser

I see theres been a lot of activity here.. imaginary children being thrown in an all .. ok just to clarify that.. I don't have imaginary children.. the cat and the dogs were scared when he kicked over the coffee table (his foot was resting on and it went over).. just to clarify that..
yes I was nagging him because I was telling him that something embarrassed me.. and he was saying he didn't say it... I would have appreciated if he said I don't remember saying it etc.. yes I am trying to work on the way I say things to be more assertive,, I do take responsibility for my feelings and action s etc... maybe the way I said it seemed bossy, what I meant was really , I don't want tantrums in my home. I know I could work on how I say things but I am trying to do that also... Thanks for all the replies...

nikkibikki

zeffabelli wrote: »

You are not his mother! You can't order him around....

Seriously, throwing a shoe is not a biggie.

I would feel really oppressed by you and probably end up exploding all over the place.

You are not respecting his autonomy. You are not listening to him. Do you know the biggest anger management issue is PHONE RAGE? You know why....it's because when people are not being heard, they get really mad.

THere is a taboo in this culture on anger. And another poster mentioned something similar....

It's always the person who lights the match who gets the blame...but 90% of the time another person is laying down the gasoline.

Throwing a shoe...honestly is not an abnormal reaction to being nagged to death and not being heard.

And you are worrying about imaginary children....???

Honestly, this isn't helpful to the OP at all! Try and see it from their point of view. I'll do my best to show how I see it.

It's not the shoe being nearly thrown that is the problem. OP is marrying this guy, it's what it could potentially lead to! We weren't in that room to judge how hostile the environment was or wasn't. It's up to the OP if it was a big deal to them or not. And they can also tell him what is and isn't acceptable to them in a relationship, it's not ordering him around! OP isn't telling him not to do it, they are telling him it's not acceptable to them, big difference! You are making massive assumptions here about him being "nagged to death." He can leave the relationship if he wants to, it's a free world!

And the comment the OP made about children, OP is due to marry him. They want to be as sure as possible that this isn't a sign of how he will handle stressful situations and frighten potential children they may have in the future. It's a valid concern if they were spooked by what happened.

verywell

I always go with my gut. If it does not feel right then it probably is not right for you.

You say you were nagging but is that just a word you use because he said you were or is that something that you were actually doing? That you were aware you were doing? What makes you think you were nagging?

Saying to someone that you were not comfortable with what they said is not nagging unless you kept saying it over and over again even when they say sorry about it. Were you only saying it because he denied saying it. They are 2 different things IMO.

anncoates

nikkibikki wrote: »

It not the shoe being nearly thrown that is the problem. OP is marrying this guy, it's what it could potentially lead to!

Or perhaps they could explore what caused these seemingly rare and ultimately harmless displays of anger instead of implying that they are a irrevocable gateway to a life of wife beating?

Pawwed Rig

This thread is demeaning to anyone that ever suffered domestic violence.

OP you are seeing problems where there are none. Get over it or move on

LegacyUser

Hi Again. sorry the posts are taking a while to be posted (as I am a guest) . I don't think my post is an insult to women that are abused.. I am not saying I am abused .. and certainly know I am not been abused.. I was asking the question, if the little tantrums I mentioned above are signs or red flags.. you hear so many stories about relationship s that were great and the women did nt read the "signs". It seems my question has been taken out of context.

I was simply asking if this behaviour is normal and from most of the posts I can see here, it seems it can be normal and I will look at how to contribute to it,, i.e not listening etc.. and try to work on that...
Thanks for all the posts again x

rainbowtrout

I think people are being a bit harsh on the OP. Domestic abuse aside, the fiance said something embarrassing about the OP. She has said this is a number of her posts. When she tackled him on it, which she had a right to do, he got defensive about it and then angry.

Either he was sober and just flat out denies this for some reason or he was drunk (assuming the OP met these friends in the pub) and he doesn't remember it due to the amount of alcohol he drank. Either way, should there be just cause for him to get angry about her wanting to talk about something he said that embarrassed her, and not acknowledge that a) it made her feel bad and b) the fact that he can't remember means that he could have said it and c) if he didn't say it he's basically accusing her of lying and why would she do that?


If a person told me I said something embarrassing about them to a group of their friends that I didn't know and I had no recollection of it (due to alcohol most likely) I don't think my first reaction would be to get angry and threaten to throw something in response. I'd probably apologise, particularly if it was someone I was on good terms with normally.

verywell

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

This thread is demeaning to anyone that ever suffered domestic violence.

OP you are seeing problems where there are none. Get over it or move on

Are you not being too harsh here? I hardly call someone asking for advice on something that they feel might be wrong, demeaning. Pretty strong word there.

If something feels wrong to a person than it normally is wrong for that person.

zeffabelli

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I think people are being a bit harsh on the OP. Domestic abuse aside, the fiance said something embarrassing about the OP. She has said this is a number of her posts. When she tackled him on it, which she had a right to do, he got defensive about it and then angry.

Either he was sober and just flat out denies this for some reason or he was drunk (assuming the OP met these friends in the pub) and he doesn't remember it due to the amount of alcohol he drank. Either way, should there be just cause for him to get angry about her wanting to talk about something he said that embarrassed her, and not acknowledge that a) it made her feel bad and b) the fact that he can't remember means that he could have said it and c) if he didn't say it he's basically accusing her of lying and why would she do that?


If a person told me I said something embarrassing about them to a group of their friends that I didn't know and I had no recollection of it (due to alcohol most likely) I don't think my first reaction would be to get angry and threaten to throw something in response. I'd probably apologise, particularly if it was someone I was on good terms with normally.

Because memory is fickle.

This happens ALL the time in relational disputes. Honestly I don't know how people get past it, conflicting narratives, we seem to need consensus.

Neyite

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

This thread is demeaning to anyone that ever suffered domestic violence.

OP you are seeing problems where there are none. Get over it or move on

I've directly experienced domestic violence and I don't find it demeaning.

I don't think that its a bad thing that somebody is potentially aware of early signs of controlling and abusive behaviour, and checks to ensure that there are healthy ways of arguing in their relationship. All too often the only time a person realises their partner is violent, its years down the line, children, marriage and mortgage complications often preventing them from leaving until more damage is done to all involved.

So its good that we are aware of the early signs - which can apply to either gender. It's good that we question from time to time whether we respect our partner and they respect us. It's good that we reflect on our way of conflict resolution in our relationships and see if there are ways of improving it and improving how we communicate to our partner.

What isn't so good is to label ordinary frustration as abuse. To be fair to the OP, she was only asking a question, not accusing her partner of it. She carefully considered what posters have said in response to her posts, and adjusted her perspective - surely that is what PI is for?

zeffabelli

Neyite wrote: »

I've directly experienced domestic violence and I don't find it demeaning.

I don't think that its a bad thing that somebody is potentially aware of early signs of controlling and abusive behaviour, and checks to ensure that there are healthy ways of arguing in their relationship. All too often the only time a person realises their partner is violent, its years down the line, children, marriage and mortgage complications often preventing them from leaving until more damage is done to all involved.

So its good that we are aware of the early signs - which can apply to either gender. It's good that we question from time to time whether we respect our partner and they respect us. It's good that we reflect on our way of conflict resolution in our relationships and see if there are ways of improving it and improving how we communicate to our partner.

What isn't so good is to label ordinary frustration as abuse. To be fair to the OP, she was only asking a question, not accusing her partner of it. She carefully considered what posters have said in response to her posts, and adjusted her perspective - surely that is what PI is for?

You are right.

Domestic violence is usually assessed on intensity and patterns. I don't know how the Domestic Violence label got involved in this thread.

Problem is domestic violence campaigns have expanded their margins of victimisation and there is power and status in being a victim. The more they have the more money they get. So now even using logic in an argument is abusive.

Sometimes human relations are like wading through a sewer. SOmetimes they are sado masochistic. Sometimes people fight dirty but there is healthy self esteem on both sides, there is parity. Sometimes people can't recognise their own abusiveness it's so insidious.

And many times, very often, survivors of trauma lose their discernment and see abuse everywhere, the rope in the corner becomes a snake, and this high alert state of looking for warning signs everywhere can also be abusive. It's what leads to character assassination and false allegations.

The idea that lifting up a shoe could make someone a potential child abuser is what raises the flags for me. That is the rope in the corner becoming a snake.

I dont think OP means to demean anyone here, but I do think this type of high alert is a direct product of perfectionistic idealism of human nature and is dangerous in itself. I;ve had more abuse sitting in traffic tbh.

IlmoNT4

I dont think its ok to feel threatened by your partner or anyone, even if you are having an argument.

Throwing shoes
Throwing cushions
Kicking coffee tables, none of that is not normal. I personally wouldn't stay involved with someone who got so defensiveness, wasnt able to talk something through then then felt the need to physically take his frustration out on an object. It shows a lack of self awareness and any empathy.

Its find to get angry, but there are other ways to express anger that does not frighten you OP, and you both are unable to communicate something that you have said is insignificant and thats the unhealthy part.

Zen65

loulou2009 wrote: »

I personally wouldn't stay involved with someone who got so defensiveness, wasnt able to talk something through then then felt the need to physically take his frustration out on an object. It shows a lack of self awareness and any empathy.

Yes, and no. It takes only one person to speak, but it takes two to talk. It is possible (and we do not know the situation well enough) that OP's fiancé did try to talk through the issue but OP did not engage and instead simply nagged (as she said herself) at him, without acknowledging his point of view. That sort of behaviour can seem passive-aggressive and drive a person to extremes of frustration.

The key points that I took from the OP were that (a) he never directed his physical actions towards her (though OP later re-told the story in a different way) and (b) that this sort of behaviour had not been characteristic from him in the years they had been dating.

Remember, just as OP is concerned about whether or not she is making a mistake by marrying her fiancé, he is also wondering the same thing about her. The prospect of a future where your married partner ignores what you say in a discussion / argument and simply re-iterates their position is in itself a frightening prospect. My reading of what OP has subsequently said about her relationship is that it lacks empathy on both sides. They have not discussed the matter of his frustration, she has simply told him she will not accept it.

That's not a discussion between equals; it is the continuation of a fighting position.

blue note

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I think people are being a bit harsh on the OP. Domestic abuse aside, the fiance said something embarrassing about the OP. She has said this is a number of her posts. When she tackled him on it, which she had a right to do, he got defensive about it and then angry.

Either he was sober and just flat out denies this for some reason or he was drunk (assuming the OP met these friends in the pub) and he doesn't remember it due to the amount of alcohol he drank. Either way, should there be just cause for him to get angry about her wanting to talk about something he said that embarrassed her, and not acknowledge that a) it made her feel bad and b) the fact that he can't remember means that he could have said it and c) if he didn't say it he's basically accusing her of lying and why would she do that?


If a person told me I said something embarrassing about them to a group of their friends that I didn't know and I had no recollection of it (due to alcohol most likely) I don't think my first reaction would be to get angry and threaten to throw something in response. I'd probably apologise, particularly if it was someone I was on good terms with normally.

Why do you assume that his memory is the one that is wrong? She might remember something that didn't happen or remember it wrongly.