Change in contract - can I push back?

frogstar

Hi I've been successful in a recent promotion in work. Private sector

No increase in money involved but as it is a higher role, they want me to sign a new contract. I have been here for 7 years.

One change in the contract is that my standard notice period increases from 4 weeks to 3 months. I am not keen on this change. Do I have grounds to push back? Worried it may be seen that I will try to leave soon, which I may decide in next 6 months. I Just feel the new contract benefits the employer and not me the employee

Thanks in advance

callaway92

Get on to your union? Surely something should be negotiable.

frogstar

No union unfortunately

Just a small HRdepartment of 2 people.

I'm sure I can broach the subject with them just concerned they would wonder why I'm pushing back but I'm sure I'm not the only one with same feedback

Mrs OBumble

Absolutely.

You're taking on more work / responsibility and getting worse terms and conditions - and they're not giving you ANYTHING back for it. Why on earth would you even consider taking on the job. Don't want to sound mean, but I don't think you're the winner here.

manor

3 months far too long.
One month should suit both parties involved.

Uncle Ben

frogstar wrote: »

Hi I've been successful in a recent promotion in work. Private sector

No increase in money involved but as it is a higher role, they want me to sign a new contract. I have been here for 7 years.

One change in the contract is that my standard notice period increases from 4 weeks to 3 months. I am not keen on this change. Do I have grounds to push back? Worried it may be seen that I will try to leave soon, which I may decide in next 6 months. I Just feel the new contract benefits the employer and not me the employee

Thanks in advance

Its a contract, between two parties. Quid pro quo.

frogstar

Thanks all. Just to clarify when I say no increase in salary , My annual review did give an increase in salary 3 months ago. Nothing outstanding but a standard annual increase in line with inflation.

Since promotion is after increase the change in contract is a buh bear
Currently I'm reviewing contract but before I sign I will raise my concerns


Thanks

matrim

frogstar wrote: »

Thanks all. Just to clarify when I say no increase in salary , My annual review did give an increase in salary 3 months ago. Nothing outstanding but a standard annual increase in line with inflation.

Since promotion is after increase the change in contract is a buh bear
Currently I'm reviewing contract but before I sign I will raise my concerns


Thanks

More responsibility, worse conditions. Why would sign?

Also another thing to remember is that those conditions can be hard to enforce.

TallGlass

I don't think there is any laws that state you have to work your notice. If you get a new job tell them your starting in two weeks, end of story. Its a job not a prison sentence.

davo10

TallGlass wrote: »

I don't think there is any laws that state you have to work your notice. If you get a new job tell them your starting in two weeks, end of story. Its a job not a prison sentence.

What is a contract then?

Op three months is too long, it's unlikely a new employer would wait that long if you informed them at interview that you could not start for three months. Just point out that your current contract is one month and that you are unwilling to extend notice period beyond that. The worst they can do is withdraw the job/promotion offer and if you are planning to leave anyway, what difference does it make? While you are at it, if you are planning to leave, at the same time as you are discussing the notice, ask them for another pay rise which is in line with the increased responsibilities of your promotion, again what have you to lose?

Geniass

If you don't get a pay increase the only benefit you are getting is that the new position is giving you more experience that will make you more employable elsewhere. This is negated by the company making it harder for you to transfer.

I'd not be happy signing it either.

No harm letting them think you are not guaranteed to stay - might make them treat you better.

Oink

3 months' notice? That means you have exactly 0 chances to ever get another job doesn't it? Unless you're that amazing guy that all companies are fighting for obviously.

angeldelight

In fairness it does depend on the industry... My husbands notice period in work is three months and has been with each company he has worked for. It has never been an issue when changing jobs as it is standard so employers expect it and work around it.

However in this case where you are being asked to change from 4 weeks I would certainly raise your concerns

LynnGrace

davo10 wrote: »

What is a contract then?

Op three months is too long, it's unlikely a new employer would wait that long if you informed them at interview that you could not start for three months. Just point out that your current contract is one month and that you are unwilling to extend notice period beyond that. The worst they can do is withdraw the job/promotion offer and if you are planning to leave anyway, what difference does it make? While you are at it, if you are planning to leave, at the same time as you are discussing the notice, ask them for another pay rise which is in line with the increased responsibilities of your promotion, again what have you to lose?

+1.
To be honest, OP, it sounds like they are getting more out of this promotion, than you are, so I would definitely be having a good look at that contract, and cannot see why you would agree to a longer period of notice.

It doesn't sound like they have made it worth your while to stay with them, and if you are looking around, three months is too long to have to ask a potential new employer to wait, IMO.

chrispbacon

Generally speaking all contracts are in favour of employers more so then an individual, otherwise they wouldnt need them.

But this clearly doesn't sound like a fair promotion.

Contracts can always be amended, and if you are taking on more work you want something for it.

I would certainly dispute this but in a nice way or look for an increase. There has to be something to go in your favour too, otherwise you'd be mad to take more work on and getting nothing for it. My2 p

Atlantic Dawn

Seek a raise of 2 months salary as you have to wait an additional 2 months for your waiting period. There's no way I would agree to such a longer waiting period without a raise.

crank_1975

Had a similar experience recently, 3 months notice is becoming standard in may companies, as such there should be no issue with future opportunities elsewhere as this becomes more common.

In reality it is not really enforceable, if you found another opportunity then I'm sure something could be worked out with your present employer. Highly unlikely that any company will want to be seen taking legal action for breach of contact unless it is at the CEO level.

Geniass

chrispbacon wrote: »

Generally speaking all contracts are in favour of employers more so then an individual, otherwise they wouldnt need them.

It's a legal requirement and a de facto contract exists if an employee does not receive one within two months of joining. Contracts are there to ensure the rights of each party.

crank_1975 wrote: »

Highly unlikely that any company will want to be seen taking legal action for breach of contact unless it is at the CEO level.

It's possible the old company could contact the new company and say the employee is breaking their contract. The new company then needs to consider if they wish to take on such an employee. Not all of them would I suspect and said employee could be without any job.

Irish_Elect_Eng

I had a similar issue at the time of my last promotion.

In your case there are 2 issues:

(1) Promotion of role without increase in pay.

This is really down to your own plans, while it is certainly not usual to receive a significant promotion without a pay raise, it may be in your best interest. If you intend moving to another job, time in a higher role will be a big advantage in moving on to that senior role in another company. But if you intend staying there then make the most of the promotion as this is the only real time that you will have to make a salary jump outside of the cadence of cost of living increases.

(2) The notice period extension.

In my case when I reviewed my new contract I noticed that I did not like the probation period and the notice period. I simply annotated the contract by crossing out their term of 3 months and entered 6 weeks (which I knew was the notice period on the contract of a colleague in a similar role) I also crossed out the probation period clause as I had been in the role on a temp. basis for 6 months already and is made no sense to agree to an additional 6 months. This may be more difficult if the contract i simply the T&Cs that everyone with a similar role has. Then you should leverage the change in T&C vs salary.

Photocopied and returned to the HR dept for their signature, they issued and signed an updated contract with no comment.

frogstar

Thanks for all feedback. Will be sitting down next week with hr to discuss

3 months is standard for the new role however since ive been in company for 7 years and started as a junior hence 4 weeks notice.

Will bring up salary andnotice period. Don't mind 6 weeks notice even but I don't want to sign for 3 months

Will keep you updated

Glinda

Sometimes people get promoted without a change in salary but with a change of payscale. Is there a chance this is what has happened here?

If so, your pay won't change immediately but if you were bouncing against the top of the payscale for your previous position you may find that your new position has a much higher range. So, for example if you were previously on 32k, but on a scale that maxes out at €32k it is better to be still on €32k but on a payscale where that is the bottom of the range and there is scope for payrises in the future.

3 month's notice is quite common in relatively senior positions where the company offers a carrot (promotion or payrise) in exchange for knowing they won't lose a key person at a few weeks notice. In practice it is hard to enforce and they may need to hustle you out the door fairly quickly once you have decided to leave for security reasons.

You might be able to negotiate with them that the 3 months notice thing only applied for a certain period, that after, say, a year it goes back to a one month notice period.

daheff

crank_1975 wrote: »

Had a similar experience recently, 3 months notice is becoming standard in may companies, as such there should be no issue with future opportunities elsewhere as this becomes more common.

In reality it is not really enforceable, if you found another opportunity then I'm sure something could be worked out with your present employer. Highly unlikely that any company will want to be seen taking legal action for breach of contact unless it is at the CEO level.

Glinda wrote: »

3 month's notice is quite common in relatively senior positions where the company offers a carrot (promotion or payrise) in exchange for knowing they won't lose a key person at a few weeks notice. In practice it is hard to enforce and they may need to hustle you out the door fairly quickly once you have decided to leave for security reasons.
.

3 months notice is becoming more common....some smarty pants companies started it in Ireland a few years back to protect themselves from employees leaving...trying to give themselves adequate time to hire replacement staff (ie HR were slow/useless)...and now that more & more companies do it we're all back to square one....except now you have to give 3 months notice to change jobs.

The contract is enforceable...but in reality few if any companies will force you to work out the notice period if you don't want to do it.(it might mean leaving on bad terms though)......even if a company does try to force you to work your notice period you can always call in sick (uncertified).

rbniner

frogstar wrote: »

Thanks for all feedback. Will be sitting down next week with hr to discuss

3 months is standard for the new role however since ive been in company for 7 years and started as a junior hence 4 weeks notice.

Will bring up salary andnotice period. Don't mind 6 weeks notice even but I don't want to sign for 3 months

Will keep you updated

Hi frogstar,

Just wondering about the outcome of this. Hope it went well for you!

frogstar

rbniner wrote: »

Hi frogstar,

Just wondering about the outcome of this. Hope it went well for you!

Sorry completely forgot to update.

Mentioned the change in terms but wasnt able to budge.

rbniner

frogstar wrote: »

Sorry completely forgot to update.

Mentioned the change in terms but wasnt able to budge. BUT, I was surprised as I did get an unexpected 20% increase in salary which really wasnt expected so I don't mind too much now about the notice period

Congratulations

skallywag

Not sure if it's relevant to your own situation OP, but in my own case having a 3 month notice period also means that my employer needs to give me 3 months notice to let me go.