Reseed or Not

CloughCasey1

We have a 5 acre field that FIL has taken either hay or silage out of every year since as long as I am being around and probably longer. It is light rocky soil and sandy at about 8 inches down from scraw. It is yellow and has a lot of mossy patches on it. I know there are plenty of threads on each of these subjects already but cannot find the exact answer to this particular question.
Do I spary off, eat bare, lime and stich and slowly build up the P&K values over the next few years or go full out and bring PH up to level it should be and as much nutrients to bring P&K back to level it should be this year?

AP2014

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

We have a 5 acre field that FIL has taken either hay or silage out of every year since as long as I am being around and probably longer. It is light rocky soil and sandy at about 8 inches down from scraw. It is yellow and has a lot of mossy patches on it. I know there are plenty of threads on each of these subjects already but cannot find the exact answer to this particular question.
Do I spary off, eat bare, lime and stich and slowly build up the P&K values over the next few years or go full out and bring PH up to level it should be and as much nutrients to bring P&K back to level it should be this year?

First thing lads here will tell you is get a soil test. Or else you could be wasting your time reseeding, ideally you need p&k levels at 3. You may need to sort soil first and then reseed. PH also might be low.

Are you going into Glas? This could be used as low input perm pasture under that scheme if you don't reseed. It's €314ha. You can't cut silage from March to July though. You are getting cash for nothing and could reseed in 5 years time and slowly bring up the P&K.

It's worth considering if going into Glas.

patjack

This is my personal opinion, so I am open to counter arguments.
I believe you have to be farming your whole farm at a certain level of productivity and intend maintaining this level for the next 7-8yrs to justify any amount of reseeding.
It needs to pay for itself in the short to medium term to justify it. It does pay for itself if fully utilised.

Not a reflection on your situation at all OP, just my opinion on reseeding.

If it's for silage, would you consider a hybrid mix. (cross between Italian and Perennial ryegrass)
I have seen a few farmers use this on silage ground, it can allow up to three cuts, weather and conditions permitting. Now you'd have to mind your P's and K's but seen a neighbours field over the winter and it looked like a field that you would be sending cattle in to graze.

The Italian ryegrass gives the early and late season growth due to it's vigour.
From what I've seen an excellent mix if purely for Silage and trying to get in a few cuts.

Greengrass1

Soil test now.
If ph needs bringing up do so at reseeding It may need a lot if in silage fir yrs.

Reseed is my moto and bring up p and k levels over the yrs.
The 3 bags of 10 10 20 at sowing will do alot for it.
We're at top of index 1 here on whole milking block and I will reseed 20% each yr till whole farm is done aswell as spread as much p and k as I'm allowed and afford.

Even at low indexes if reseeds are fed just maintained p and k they will way put perform old leys

_Brian

I agree that reseeding is a major boost, both from the perspective of introducing new grass species and breaking up ground to improve drainage and get air down..

However, depending on the farming system the returns may or may not be there to justify.. Many, many suckler enterprises just don't return enough to justify the spend.

Would it not be true that allot of spun out ground would be much, much more productive if soil samples were taken and any deficiencies corrected. It may well be enough to match the system OP is farming.

CloughCasey1

_Brian wrote: »

I agree that reseeding is a major boost, both from the perspective of introducing new grass species and breaking up ground to improve drainage and get air down..

However, depending on the farming system the returns may or may not be there to justify.. Many, many suckler enterprises just don't return enough to justify the spend.

Would it not be true that allot of spun out ground would be much, much more productive if soil samples were taken and any deficiencies corrected. It may well be enough to match the system OP is farming.

System is dry stock cattle grazing from april to early nov. FIL buys stores one winter and finish in summer or as close to 30mts as possible and as much off grass as possible.I have 10acres and have reliamed/reseeded all but 2 acres. I buy sucks and finish the best as bulls under 16 mts and sell the rest as store bullocks 16 mts onwards. can see the benifit of it but getting FIL to do his ground is like pulling teeth. If he had his way manure would go out

CloughCasey1

System is dry stock cattle grazing from april to early nov. FIL buys stores one winter and finish in summer or as close to 30mts as possible and as much off grass as possible.I have 10acres and have reliamed/reseeded all but 2 acres. I buy sucks and finish the best as bulls under 16 mts and sell the rest as store bullocks 16 mts onwards. can see the benifit of it but getting FIL to do his ground is like pulling teeth. If he had his way manure would never go out

Farrell

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

System is dry stock cattle grazing from april to early nov. FIL buys stores one winter and finish in summer or as close to 30mts as possible and as much off grass as possible.I have 10acres and have reliamed/reseeded all but 2 acres. I buy sucks and finish the best as bulls under 16 mts and sell the rest as store bullocks 16 mts onwards. can see the benifit of it but getting FIL to do his ground is like pulling teeth. If he had his way manure would never go out

Sadly can see both sides there, you're looking to the future & he's thinking short term & the old if not broke don't fix expression. I remember reading on another thread (think GG) where he had hard job convincing his father on grass measuring, now it's a case he's getting a lecture to why he hasn't the paddock measured yet. You'll have to stick with it & show how the ground you've worked is preforming better since you did the work & sow the seed how he'd get better returns too if he'd imput into his farm too.

conor t

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

System is dry stock cattle grazing from april to early nov. FIL buys stores one winter and finish in summer or as close to 30mts as possible and as much off grass as possible.I have 10acres and have reliamed/reseeded all but 2 acres. I buy sucks and finish the best as bulls under 16 mts and sell the rest as store bullocks 16 mts onwards. can see the benifit of it but getting FIL to do his ground is like pulling teeth. If he had his way manure would never go out

How much nitrogen do you stick out?

CloughCasey1

conor t wrote: »

How much nitrogen do you stick out?

Id put out out bag to acre in early march of 27% plus 5% sulphur. Same again in end april after first grazing. Then top up every second graze with 18-6-12 half bag to acre and eat bare in early nov followed by well rotten fym before closing date. Looking to get grass harrow so can rough out old grass again in spring.
FIL might out out one bag can oer acre.

CloughCasey1

Farrell wrote: »

Sadly can see both sides there, you're looking to the future & he's thinking short term & the old if not broke don't fix expression. I remember reading on another thread (think GG) where he had hard job convincing his father on grass measuring, now it's a case he's getting a lecture to why he hasn't the paddock measured yet. You'll have to stick with it & show how the ground you've worked is preforming better since you did the work & sow the seed how he'd get better returns too if he'd imput into his farm too.

Might try lime and Fym and see does that make a difference to ground. Uphill battle me thinks.

conor t

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Id put out out bag to acre in early march of 27% plus 5% sulphur. Same again in end april after first grazing. Then top up every second graze with 18-6-12 half bag to acre and eat bare in early nov followed by well rotten fym before closing date. Looking to get grass harrow so can rough out old grass again in spring.
FIL might out out one bag can oer acre.

If the field is going to be only used for grazing you'd probably be better off over seeding new grass+clover, if it'll be used for silage a full reseed will probably pay since you need decent quality silage.
Soil test first, no point in having poor establishment due to lack of fertility