Garda reserve to be scrapped

Dub94

I was looking into who im going to vote for in the next election, Ive supported Sinn fein and intended to vote for them. However I looked into their policies in relation to the gardai, they plan on scrapping the reserves. Now in saying that they want to put more into full time recruitment, but I don't see why they should scrap the reserves and it's put me off voting for them. But I believe they'll definetly be voted in, it brings me to my question....
What political party do you think has the best policies in relation to recruitment of both the reserves and full time ?

Santa Cruz

Dub94 wrote: »

I was looking into who im going to vote for in the next election, Ive supported Sinn fein and intended to vote for them. However I looked into their policies in relation to the gardai, they plan on scrapping the reserves. Now in saying that they want to put more into full time recruitment, but I don't see why they should scrap the reserves and it's put me off voting for them. But I believe they'll definetly be voted in, it brings me to my question....
What political party do you think has the best policies in relation to recruitment of both the reserves and full time ?

The country needs a properly resouced police service capable of delivering a service to both rural and urban areas. Priority must go to the full time sector. The present Reserve srt up by McDowell is just a PR exercise which full time Gardai have seen through. If there is to be a Reserve do it right or dont do it at all.

Dub94

I believe the reserve force could be a great asset to the gardai if it was being run properly. Give them full powers and a good infrastructure where members can progress to better positions with experience. I don't think there is anything to Benifit from scrapping it as its great for people who want to go in and help the community or to use there spare time doing something helpful and meaningful. Although I believe the next government will need to deal with the needs of the garda in terms of garda numbers and I feel the reserve members deserve their chance to shine, if a senior officer sees a reserve has potential they should be able to recommend them for training into the full time without having to sit an aptitude test.

Copaholic

I agree with you Dub94. The equivalent of reserves is used in other jurisdictions and with a lot more power making them more effective. In addition I agree that there should be some mechanism for management to recommend for training or at least stage 4 (interview) those who shine in the reserves and are interested and with a certain number of years experience in being full time without having to sit stages 1-3. Most jobs that are advertised clearly state that "experience is and advantage" but the AGS recruitment system only gives a candidate a chance to demonstrate on the job experience at the interview stage which is too late. I understand that in the defence forces they planned to initially recruit from within the reserves and then recruit by open competition.
One would believe that at a time when the focus of government was on low costs and efficiency the wise move would have been to recruit initially from the reserves as these have on the job experience and formal training and consequently would take less time and cost to fully train.

the_syco

Copaholic wrote: »

I agree with you Dub94. The equivalent of reserves is used in other jurisdictions

Could you give examples? I'm too lazy to search for working examples.

Dub94 wrote: »

Give them full powers and a good infrastructure where members can progress to better positions with experience.

Full powers after they do the full training, but oh, wait, they'd be real Gardai then.

Oh, and do they become fully answerable for anything they f**kup as well, then?

Dub94

the_syco wrote: »

Could you give examples? I'm too lazy to search for working examples.


Full powers after they do the full training, but oh, wait, they'd be real Gardai then.

I disagree the specials in the UK train for 23 weeks and they have full powers.

Oh, and do they become fully answerable for anything they f**kup as well, then?

Of course they do why would they Not ?

RUNNER 1

Lets hope Sinn fein dont get in , Because for sure they will scrap it.

Dub94

RUNNER 1 wrote: »

Lets hope Sinn fein dont get in , Because for sure they will scrap it.

RUNNER 1 wrote: »

Lets hope Sinn fein dont get in , Because for sure they will scrap it.

I'm thinking finna fail to be honest, I mean they were the ones who started the reserves if I'm not mistaken. I'm just not confincced that getting rid of the reserves is a logical idea, I mean think about it garda numbers are at a big low and the 1,200 reserves or so do help in keeping a visible presence on the street.
I think the future lies in the recruitment of more reserves up to 4,000 and yearly intakes of full timers, bring reserves with 5 to 10 years experience into interviews and open the gates to them for progression into full time. This will not only make the reserves popular but it will give the serving members something to work hard for.

evolving_doors

sounds like an internship scheme to me...
Why dont we do the same for nurses... nursing assistants... teachers, teaching assistants. It would solve a lot of problems by getting in workers on the cheap. And then when they get great experience they can be promoted to a real job.

I dont buy it really. Just pay for proper serving police. The work they do could save the state and society in the long run instead of messing about with yellow packs.

RUNNER 1

I dont think the Reserve is going anywhere to be honest it was in 2010/11 sinn fein wanted the Reserve to be scrapped and that's only because money need to be saved, we are 5 years on now and things have change a lot since then there is not as much need to try and save money on something so small, 1.3 mill is all they will save scrapping it . 2016 we will know but then again that's another year on times change ,scrapping the Reserve 10/11 years on pointless .

Dub94

It can be changed and used As an other form of recruitment, at the moment many reserves will leave due to the fact they didn't get full time. We have the best trained reserve force but they have very little powers to be of any use, a complete shake up of the reserves is required if it is to have a future.

rocky911

Dub94 wrote: »

It can be changed and used As an other form of recruitment, at the moment many reserves will leave due to the fact they didn't get full time. We have the best trained reserve force but they have very little powers to be of any use, a complete shake up of the reserves is required if it is to have a future.

Sorry now, with all due respect that is not true at all!, trust me I have 3 years experience, the initial training is good but no where near enough refreshers or re training which makes that statement border line ridiculous, and I mean that with respect. You cannot compare the current force to that of one in the UK. As I said, the reserve is only around 10 years, still have 90 years to catch up on else where.

Dub94

Well according to the commissioner we have one of the best trained reserve force. As usual we are playing catch up with the UK, but it doesn't mean we have to wait 90 years for it to be at the same level as the UK

rocky911

Dub94 wrote: »

Well according to the commissioner we have one of the best trained reserve force. As usual we are playing catch up with the UK, but it doesn't mean we have to wait 90 years for it to be at the same level as the UK

I remember I was naive as you once, all I say is that if you want to go far and get on in AGS, learn to take everything with a huge pinch of salt.

RUNNER 1

Dub94 of course the commissioner is going to say that ,if you were selling a car you would tell the person who's buying it its great when it could be a sh*t,. Dont always believe what people say ,I myself listen to people like you Rocky911 your in there you know the story and I agree with ur statements about AGS.

Dub94

the point im trying to make is that there is great potential In setting up he reserve force in a way that can bring members of the reserve through training for full time. It cuts out the cost of recruitment campaigns and they have the correct training and experience on equipment use and handling situations. I believe this is the way forward and that there is no gain from scrapping the reserves.

evolving_doors

Dub94 wrote: »

the point im trying to make is that there is great potential In setting up he reserve force in a way that can bring members of the reserve through training for full time. It cuts out the cost of recruitment campaigns and they have the correct training and experience on equipment use and handling situations. I believe this is the way forward and that there is no gain from scrapping the reserves.

I've never heard of a recruitment campaign for the Gardai though (apart from an add in the paper!), so I think cutting costs will return nothing.


I think there's a fine line between training reserves up and training them up to a par that threatens the professionalism of AGS. At some point a fully qualified Garda might turn around and wonder how come a volunteer is doing the exact same duties but is getting paid nothing. Then the powers that be will declare it a roaring success and a cheap way to keep paid manpower low (which is the last thing any cohort needs for staff morale). Then before you know it you'll have hungry young reserves only to delighted to transfer into the regulars on a new reduced pay-scale.

The serving members won't be too put out as they'll still be on the old pay-scale but for the incumbents they'll be told they're lucky to have any job these days (esp. public sector with golden pensions and allowances (which is the lie put out in the media)).

I've no experience of reserves but that's just whats happened in the teaching profession. Mid-career members are OKish, younger reserves/entrants on reduced pay/pension who havn't a clue about unions, without kids/mortgage, yet being told they are lucky to have a public service job (even though it's not really the same job as it used to be in terms of pay etc!). The older members will be retired off early as they are the one who know how hard it was to fight for pay/conditions in the past.

Sorry for the rant but I think it's time to take stock of changes that are coming down the line across the public sector. Sentiment is low towards the public sector so this is the perfect time for the changes to be snuck in.

RUNNER 1

Dub94 do you have a fresh link from sinn fein saying they would do this because I can't find anything that isn't dated from 2010/11.

endacl

Dub94 wrote: »

Ive supported Sinn fein and intended to vote for them. Now in saying that they want to put more into full time recruitment, but I don't see why they should scrap the reserves and it's put me off voting for them.

Well, you could look at their history, membership and policies for innumerable reasons not to vote for them, but I suppose the one you quote is as good as any! Once you don't.

TallGlass

Gebgbegb wrote: »

I've never heard of a recruitment campaign for the Gardai though (apart from an add in the paper!), so I think cutting costs will return nothing.


I think there's a fine line between training reserves up and training them up to a par that threatens the professionalism of AGS. At some point a fully qualified Garda might turn around and wonder how come a volunteer is doing the exact same duties but is getting paid nothing. Then the powers that be will declare it a roaring success and a cheap way to keep paid manpower low (which is the last thing any cohort needs for staff morale). Then before you know it you'll have hungry young reserves only to delighted to transfer into the regulars on a new reduced pay-scale.

The serving members won't be too put out as they'll still be on the old pay-scale but for the incumbents they'll be told they're lucky to have any job these days (esp. public sector with golden pensions and allowances (which is the lie put out in the media)).

I've no experience of reserves but that's just whats happened in the teaching profession. Mid-career members are OKish, younger reserves/entrants on reduced pay/pension who havn't a clue about unions, without kids/mortgage, yet being told they are lucky to have a public service job (even though it's not really the same job as it used to be in terms of pay etc!). The older members will be retired off early as they are the one who know how hard it was to fight for pay/conditions in the past.

Sorry for the rant but I think it's time to take stock of changes that are coming down the line across the public sector. Sentiment is low towards the public sector so this is the perfect time for the changes to be snuck in.

While I as a Reserve agree with what you are saying above.

This isn't just teaching/Garda it's every profession and it dose not matter if there are volunteers or not. Older staff members on better conditions are been managed out of companies or getting a package to leave. So I wouldn't put the turning pay scales down to a few hundred people doing the job for free. Instead the population has bloomed, there are thousands out of work, employers have the upper hand its easier now to get skilled workers in fact there are thousands of skilled workers. So what was skilled in the past is now not.

It's like saying the blue cross are putting very vet in Dublin out of business.

I for one would welcome anyone that walked into my job and was volunteering doing my job, cause it would free up some of my work.

Dub94

I dont runner but im going to enquire when they knock on my door.
The reserves are there to put visability back on the street, many of the members are there with a hope of moving up to full time. I know a guard who hates the fact I want to be a reserve he can't understand why anyone would do it for free, I tell him that it's a career choice and I feel it would help me when it comes to interviews and also to decide on whether it's what I want to do as a career.
They need garda numbers and 14000 is a safe enough number I believe 500 of these should be reserves and the other 500 applicants from public jobs.

RUNNER 1

I dont think they would scrap it if they got in, they would of a few years ago .

Dub94

RUNNER 1 wrote: »

I dont think they would scrap it if they got in, they would of a few years ago .

The reserves got a mention today at the agsi meeting. They called for the powers to be extended

rocky911

Dub94 wrote: »

The reserves got a mention today at the agsi meeting. They called for the powers to be extended

Any link to that ?

RUNNER 1

Dub94 wrote: »

The reserves got a mention today at the agsi meeting. They called for the powers to be extended

Really? Any link ?

Dub94

rocky911 wrote: »

Any link to that ?

It's on the rte news app and I read it wrong at the time. They criticised giving more powers to members without proper police training.

RUNNER 1

Dub94 wrote: »

It's on the rte news app and I read it wrong at the time. They criticised giving more powers to members without proper police training.

Ya I was about to say .

Dub94

RUNNER 1 wrote: »

Ya I was about to say .

How silly of me to think the reserves have been accepted by the agsi

RUNNER 1

Dub94 wrote: »

How silly of me to think the reserves have been accepted by the agsi

It may happen some day , but it won't be any day soon.

gilly0512

RUNNER 1 wrote: »

Lets hope Sinn fein don't get in , Because for sure they will scrap it.

I hope Sinn Fein don't get in for many reasons, although scrapping the Reserve is yet another one to add to my long list of reasons. Also I can't imagine too many Gardai (Reserve or Full-Time) would vote for a party who spent decades supporting a military wing who maimed, butchered and killed thousands of innocent people during the so called troubles, including hundreds of RUC Officers and several Gardai. As regards the Reserve I have said it before and I'll say it again, the Reserve in its current guise serves little or no purpose, and we need proper powers, responsibilities and training to truly make a difference.
Sadly I don't think the political will is there, and the majority of Garda management are too set in their ways to ever look for, or allow the Reserve to be utilised properly. I'm also beginning to wonder if the big fanfare about giving us more powers back in January will just fade away again like it did two years ago?

RUNNER 1

gilly2308 wrote: »

I hope Sinn Fein don't get in for many reasons, although scrapping the Reserve is yet another one to add to my long list of reasons. Also I can't imagine too many Gardai (Reserve or Full-Time) would vote for a party who spent decades supporting a military wing who maimed, butchered and killed thousands of innocent people during the so called troubles, including hundreds of RUC Officers and several Gardai. As regards the Reserve I have said it before and I'll say it again, the Reserve in its current guise serves little or no purpose, and we need proper powers, responsibilities and training to truly make a difference.
Sadly I don't think the political will is there, and the majority of Garda management are too set in their ways to ever look for, or allow the Reserve to be utilised properly. I'm also beginning to wonder if the big fanfare about giving us more powers back in January will just fade away again like it did two years ago?

I think it will fade away again as you say, cant see it happing .